April 4, 2023

Bea Wood: Transgender, Neurodiversity, Addiction, Recovery, Wheelchair & Living with Tourette's

Bea Wood: Transgender, Neurodiversity, Addiction, Recovery, Wheelchair & Living with Tourette's
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Bea Wood: Transgender, Neurodiversity, Addiction, Recovery, Wheelchair & Living with Tourette's
Bea Wood: Transgender, Neurodiversity, Addiction, Recovery, Wheelchair & Living with Tourette's
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Season 1

Matt is joined by Bea, a Transgender woman, former Miss Transgender UK, and activist for Trans, neurodiversity, and disability rights. 

In this candid conversation, Bea opens up publicly for the first time about her struggles with addiction to substances and shares her experiences of living with Tourette's. She discusses the challenges of finding support and acceptance within both the transgender and neurodiversity communities and shares her insights on how to better support those living with Tourette's. 

This episode provides a unique perspective on the intersectionality of identity and the importance of destigmatising addiction.

Click here to text our host, Matt, directly!

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This is a toolkit for recovery & resilience. Whether you’re in recovery or seeking to understand addiction, there’s something here for everyone.

📩 Contact: robbie@believeinpeoplepodcast.com
🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” by Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)

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🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
🎛️ Producer: Robbie Lawson
🏢 Network: ReNew

WEBVTT

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Hello and welcome to the Believe in People podcast.

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My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or as I like to say, your facilitator.

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Today I have with me Bea, a transgender woman, former Miss Transgender UK and an activist for trans, neurodiverse and disability rights.

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For the first time, Bea publicly discusses her substance addiction and provides guidance to the community on how to interact with and help people living with Tourette's.

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First of all, this is normally the part of the podcast where I will ask my guests to introduce themselves, but I'm going to add a little caveat Ticking boxes.

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Normally you would look at something on a form or whatever, and you would look at ethnic minority, you would look at disability.

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There's sort of tick boxes, if you like, where companies or...

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People will look at including, wanking, including BAME.

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including transgender, LGBTQ+, as a whole.

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They might look at a disability tick box to fill a quota.

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And I've always said, other than the fact that I'm white, which doesn't tick the BAME tick box, I literally fit every other box.

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I fit disability, hearing loss, neurodiversity, transgender.

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I literally tick every box.

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And I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

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I don't know if...

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Sometimes people see me and want to almost use me because I'm interesting or I fill a quota.

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Or if I'm genuinely interesting and they want to learn from me.

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But that's why I say I pretty much tick every

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box.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Well, it's so...

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There's a lot there, and I'm excited to unpick a lot of this for you because there's a lot of this that I want to learn about as well.

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So I completely get what you're saying about it, Gene, the tick box stream, because there is a lot here and there's a lot I want to learn about.

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But first, I guess a congratulations is in order because, you know, five years clean.

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Yeah, so Sunday, this last Sunday, I hit five years clean.

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It's a bit of a...

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a weird journey with me in drug use because I only became B in 2004.

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I'm transgender and my pronouns are she, her.

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But my drug use started fairly young as a teen and it was on and off.

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It started recreationally.

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But it turned into something much more.

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I have always said no one that I'm aware of ever wakes up and says, I want to be a drug addict or I want to be an alcoholic.

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I've never heard that as a quote.

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I've never heard anybody say it and no one wants to.

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Whether it's a mental or a physical dependency on whatever substance it is, whether it be alcohol or class A, class B, whatever you're talking about, no one wants to be addicted to something.

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I fell into a trap with drugs because not only were they readily available and around me, but I was undiagnosed neurodiverse.

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I didn't understand my own head.

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Now, I'm going to say a statement, and at first it might sound shocking, but I...

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say to myself and others, in a way, drugs saved my life.

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Now, that sounds like a shocking statement, and it is, because Class A drugs don't save lives.

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It's quite simple.

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They don't.

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But back in the day, being autistic, ADHD, having an underlying tick disorder and having Tourette's, having something called Touretic OCD, As well as suppressing being transgender and hiding who I was, desperate to escape, my head was a very messed up place.

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When I couldn't get a break from my head going round and round and round and round and round, it put me in some really, really, really dark places.

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And excessive alcohol and drug use was my only escape.

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Yeah.

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That kind of sounds like I'm drugs positive, but I'm not.

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The way I'm saying it is because it's a cry for help, really.

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I'm saying it because these are the measures that some of us take to cope with life.

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It shouldn't be that way.

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I started off life in the care system, and then I was adopted.

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If social services and people around me had recognised from a young age that I was autistic, recognised I had ADHD...

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diagnosed me and given me care, helped me understand my brain, helped me understand that difference is okay, then I wouldn't have had to block my brain out and I would have probably never taken a drug.

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I know and I'm fully aware that the NHS and services are under so much pressure at the minute, but I truly believe that somewhere there must be something else that can be done.

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My drug use...

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Went from sort of like cocaine and all of those sorts of bits and pieces, taking pills.

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I've done a few other bits and pieces.

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But ultimately, it wasn't about what drug I was taking.

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It was just about the block.

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It wouldn't matter if it was a bottle of vodka or some powder.

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Yeah.

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As long as I could block things out.

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And it became Moorish without me realising.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Moorish to the point where it almost got dangerous.

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I remember very clearly, probably about five years and a few weeks ago to the date, pretty much, in the last week before I got clean, I was sat at someone's house at a house party and I had done an abacus.

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a ridiculous amount of cocaine.

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And I looked at my watch and my watch was giving me heart notifications.

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I was sat down doing nothing and my heart was resting at 144 beats a minute.

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My head was, wow, I'm okay.

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You know, everything's blocked out, but that could have killed me.

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And the cost of trying to block things out my head could have cost me my life.

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Um, So I had a really funny relationship with drugs.

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And I also lived a secret life.

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I'd be around my friends and not telling them what I was on.

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If I was on a comedown, I wouldn't be open about it.

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I'd just say I was feeling rough from something else.

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I'd always make an excuse.

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And there's not many people know about my past.

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And I just finally decided this year that it's time to just say, do you know what?

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I am a recovering addict.

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And...

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I'm not going to be ashamed of it anymore.

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I'm going to be proud that I've turned my life around rather than being ashamed of what I

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was like.

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Is there something that's caused you to think, right, I'm now going to be more open about my addiction than I have been previously?

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Because as you've said, it's not, I mean, this is the first time you've spoke openly about your addiction.

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Yeah, it is.

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Why now when you've been such an advocate for all these other things?

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I think this was a hard one

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because my past involves things like High court enforcement, working on magistrates' warrants and high court writs.

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It involves working on the doors, back when I was presenting as male.

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I'm doing a lot of work.

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I'm a volunteer for a charity.

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I've just done two years doing crisis work.

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So...

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Being too open, I guess I've always felt a bit guarded around my career path, around judgment.

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Looking back now, had I have been more open about it, it might have made me more relatable, I guess, that I'm not going to hold judgment.

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If you're going through addiction right now, there's no judgment from me.

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I've been there.

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I've done it.

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If I say to you, you can do this, you can get clean, I'm not just saying it.

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for the sake of it.

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I'm saying it with meaning because I know firsthand how hard it is.

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But that wasn't my train of thought.

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My train of thought was self-preservation, I guess.

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And I didn't quite know how to process it in a way.

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Very similar to why I suppressed being transgender.

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Thought processes behind it changed.

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There was a turning point.

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And I think in the last few weeks...

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Something's changed.

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I don't know what.

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It just feels different.

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Maybe it's because I've hit the five-year mark.

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It just feels like a bit of a...

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A

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milestone.

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Yeah.

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I think the interesting thing is that not realising because everyone around us, when we are taking drugs, when we are heavily drinking alcohol, they can see that.

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But as the individual taking those substances, we don't see that ourselves often until it's too late.

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I guess from an outside perspective, people might be looking at people with addictions and say, how can you not realise that you are destroying yourself?

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That's a really good question.

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And a really good point.

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I guess when you're in that headspace, you don't see it.

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So it's this whole thing of self-perception or there's this thing, I don't know what the exact wording is, but when you're in a situation, you don't necessarily see it the way other people from the outside do.

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Just the same as things like domestic violence and stuff.

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A lot of people are trapped.

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Other people can see it.

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When they're out of that relationship, they look back and go, whoa.

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But at the time, you don't see it because you feel it as normal.

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Yeah, I was about to say that normalising of the...

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It's a normalising behaviour.

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And if I took some substances and I felt good, I wouldn't necessarily realise that my pupils are twice the size they normally are or whatever because I'm that away from reality that I wouldn't recognise it.

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And to be honest...

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I think that was still at the time easier than facing reality because I didn't find the acceptance I needed where I needed it.

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And life has changed so much since then that if life would have been then what it is now, life would have been a different story.

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My past would have been so different.

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So I've got another one here that says, you took substances because you was different.

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You didn't know you was trans.

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All around you was hatred.

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You ended up hating yourself for feeling like you did, trying to be someone that you were not, and that drove you to a dark place.

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Tell me about all that hatred around you.

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What was that?

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I grew up being told that gay people were faggots and they were dirty.

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I grew up also under Section 28.

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which was Margaret Thatcher's awful law that says schools and colleges can't and forbid any positive talk of LGBTQ.

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You could be as homophobic as pre-Equality Act, homophobic and transphobic as you wanted to be, but it was illegal to talk about it positively from school.

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So it was a really tough thing to grow up knowing that I was kind of looking at boys and girls and thinking well I appreciate boys and men you know at my age it was boys because I was a boy or presented as one um but also I was looking at girls but it was different because I was jealous of the girls I was jealous of their long hair I'm stereotyping here but it was what was in my head you know um I was jealous of the long hair and the conversations and they had different uniform um And they played netball, I had to play football and rugby.

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It was really difficult to ever admit.

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And, of course, I never knew what trans was.

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I didn't know you could be trans.

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I started life in care and I magically was adopted and got parents.

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So maybe just like that was like a miracle, if you like, maybe a miracle happened and one day I'll wake up and I'll be a girl.

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And when you're a kid, you believe these things.

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Yeah.

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And that's what I dreamt of, but I couldn't ever admit it to anybody because the hatred was normalised.

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It was always locker room school jokes, you know.

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It was normalised by something negative being, oh, that's gay.

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And any...

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Anything homophobic or transphobic was a slur in a negative way.

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So I couldn't become that.

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It was a kind of society put it in my head that it was wrong.

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But I knew deep down I was the wrongness, so I had to suppress it.

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There was no other choice but to suppress it.

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Did you ever open up to your parents about any of this stuff?

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Never.

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No?

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Never.

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I love my...

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parents to pieces they adopted me they took me on I owe them the world but at the same time we're very different people they're very very well educated people that I have so much respect for but I'm also very neurodiverse and different and the feeling was always there as well that I gained these because I must have lost my original mum and dad and So if I tell them I'm different in any way, am I going to lose another set of parents?

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Because there's always that level of insecurity when you've been through a system or been adopted or been under care of whoever.

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It can put a sense of insecurity in you.

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And I've grown up without realising it with a lot of abandonment issues and attachment issues.

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And I'm 34 and I'm just realising this and getting help for it.

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which is crazy, but when no one's helped you with it or told you or recognised it, how do you know?

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So it was really difficult to ever talk to him about being different because I was too scared of losing him.

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I think talking about that, you were talking earlier about the people not knowing about the neurodiversity.

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I think now there is more support and I suppose more awareness around things such as autism and ADHD and than there ever was before.

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Because one of the things that I hear an older generation say is, oh, you never had any of this autism or this ADHD when I was younger.

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It's like, it was there.

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There was just a complete lack of support for it.

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Do you think there is more support for these things now?

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Or do you think there's more awareness about these things now than there was before?

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For definite awareness.

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Because, I mean, if you rewind 70 years, for example, somebody with Tourette's or...

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autism that presented fairly obviously, chances are it had been locked up and hidden from society, where now that's not the case.

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So that's changed massively.

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I mean, when you think about it, back then, trans, it was only 50, 60 years ago, police were writing down the number plates of people outside LGBT bars.

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Yeah.

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So society has changed loads for neurodiversity.

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We're getting there.

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We've still got a long way to go with a lot of it.

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Tourette's has no nice guidelines, for example, which is crazy.

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We're fighting for them, but we shouldn't be having to fight for them.

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Autism and ADHD are definitely in places where they haven't been before.

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I definitely think we're getting there in a massive way.

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I still think we've got a bit to go though, but we're definitely, definitely getting there.

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Can you tell me a little bit more about your experience of living with Tourette's and how it has, I guess, affected your life?

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Yeah, so I grew up with tics and It was kind of brushed under the carpet as movement disorders and other bits and pieces.

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They never really picked up that, hang on, this is tics, this could be Tourette's.

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I got into adulthood and my tics calmed right down, which they do for the majority of the community.

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Not all of the community, but most of the community.

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And I got through life, just the odd wink and a few little bits and pieces.

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And a few years ago, I had some major trauma.

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And I started squeaking, shoulder shrugging, and within two or three weeks, words were coming out.

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That's really when it became blatantly obvious this could be Tourette's.

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Seven neurologists later, and three knockbacks, and I'm diagnosed.

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But it's changed everything.

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Things that I could do before, I now have to think about.

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I mean, a classic really is this coming weekend, me and my partner are going to Scotland for a few days for our anniversary.

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I've got little cards ready.

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So when we go onto the train, and I've got passenger assist to get my wheelchair up, et cetera, I give the cards to whoever's helping me and say, can you just do us a favour and put these on the table of every place in the carriage?

00:19:12.172 --> 00:19:15.375
And they say, someone on this carriage has Tourette's syndrome.

00:19:15.414 --> 00:19:17.376
Please do not be alarmed, et cetera, because...

00:19:18.786 --> 00:19:20.027
You wouldn't have to think about that before.

00:19:20.047 --> 00:19:21.909
You wouldn't have to think about, can I go to cinema?

00:19:21.949 --> 00:19:22.670
Am I too ticky?

00:19:24.050 --> 00:19:25.593
Can I risk going to bingo?

00:19:27.894 --> 00:19:29.036
You know, things like that.

00:19:29.056 --> 00:19:29.817
It changes.

00:19:29.836 --> 00:19:33.299
A lot of things you don't think about, it changes.

00:19:34.340 --> 00:19:37.884
Everyone thinks about Tourette's as a swearing disease, and it's not.

00:19:38.023 --> 00:19:40.105
Only one in ten of us have coprolalia.

00:19:40.767 --> 00:19:42.628
Coprolalia is not actually about swearing.

00:19:42.929 --> 00:19:45.991
It's the use of inappropriate language that we can't control.

00:19:46.011 --> 00:19:47.794
I am that one in ten.

00:19:48.258 --> 00:19:51.782
But 9 out of 10 is motor tics and verbal.

00:19:51.823 --> 00:19:58.411
Verbal not being vocal, not being a word but a squeak or a click or a sniff.

00:19:59.692 --> 00:20:02.817
But the physical side of Tourette's can be disabling and crippling.

00:20:03.458 --> 00:20:10.086
When your shoulder's shrugging non-stop and you can't stop it for days on end and it ends up bruising and muscle tension and full tendons.

00:20:10.767 --> 00:20:14.511
When you can't sit still for an MRI scan and they can't do anything about it.

00:20:15.333 --> 00:20:19.685
There's When you're eating and you can't stop shaking or stabbing with your knife.

00:20:20.166 --> 00:20:23.471
There's so many things Tourette's affects that it changes.

00:20:24.633 --> 00:20:25.272
So many things.

00:20:25.292 --> 00:20:27.056
We have to think about going to a steakhouse.

00:20:27.576 --> 00:20:33.143
We have to think about having a butter knife and not a steak knife at first because I get too stubby with them.

00:20:35.906 --> 00:20:39.191
Tourette's is a minefield that people don't understand.

00:20:39.230 --> 00:20:41.354
And...

00:20:42.529 --> 00:20:48.760
The only awareness, well, most of the awareness has been through documentaries and stuff, but they haven't always been very well done.

00:20:49.362 --> 00:20:57.957
No, because I think there's an element of it that it's often comes across as, I guess, almost comedic in a way.

00:20:58.096 --> 00:21:08.048
Because of the things that you can say for having the tics, that I guess if you look at, Things like South Park, for example.

00:21:08.268 --> 00:21:11.290
There's an episode on Tourette's, and South Park is a comedy.

00:21:11.832 --> 00:21:19.618
So I think we often see those characters that have Tourette's in mainstream media as often the comedy character.

00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:21.921
And that's partly because of...

00:21:21.942 --> 00:21:23.383
How do you feel?

00:21:23.403 --> 00:21:28.367
Because some of the things you say as part of your tics, they are quite funny to hear out loud.

00:21:28.468 --> 00:21:28.968
Absolutely.

00:21:29.008 --> 00:21:33.031
How do you feel when people will laugh at the things you say because of your tics?

00:21:33.752 --> 00:21:34.413
What's that like?

00:21:34.913 --> 00:21:35.734
I've always said

00:21:35.775 --> 00:21:43.221
from a personal angle, and I can't speak for the community because if you've met one person with Tourette's, you've met one person with Tourette's.

00:21:43.662 --> 00:21:48.467
You'll never meet two people with Tourette's the same, just like you won't meet two autistic people the same.

00:21:49.147 --> 00:21:55.013
But from my personal perspective is laugh with me, but don't laugh at me.

00:21:55.354 --> 00:22:03.521
So if I'm ticking in a way that's dangerous or brutal...

00:22:04.130 --> 00:22:12.960
and it's not funny, then don't laugh because, trust me, I've come up with some really brutal things that are not funny at all.

00:22:13.099 --> 00:22:19.086
In fact, I've gone home and cried over them because I don't want it to be a reflection on me or my thoughts because it's not.

00:22:19.768 --> 00:22:26.455
But if something is genuinely funny, then it'd be weird if people didn't laugh for me because that lightens the mood.

00:22:27.336 --> 00:22:30.400
It means that they're not taking my tics as serious or...

00:22:33.153 --> 00:22:37.500
For me, it's laugh with me, just don't laugh at me, is the thing.

00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:42.166
Because, obviously, we met at the whole Champions meeting at the beginning of the year.

00:22:42.207 --> 00:22:47.474
And I think we were talking about baby swimming lessons.

00:22:47.815 --> 00:22:48.055
Yes.

00:22:48.155 --> 00:22:50.558
And one of your tics then was about drowning the baby.

00:22:50.578 --> 00:22:51.259
Yeah, drown the baby.

00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:54.984
Now, I know you're not thinking about drowning the baby.

00:22:55.165 --> 00:22:55.326
No, no.

00:22:55.346 --> 00:22:55.705
Of course not.

00:22:55.746 --> 00:22:57.548
And you had to apologise for that one.

00:22:58.651 --> 00:23:00.794
And, like, everybody laughed at first, and afterwards...

00:23:01.185 --> 00:23:02.307
I don't think people was laughing.

00:23:02.346 --> 00:23:09.715
And it wasn't because it wasn't funny, but it was just obviously you can see that it was even, you saying that was even uncomfortable for you to say as well.

00:23:09.915 --> 00:23:12.118
And I think everybody realised that pretty quickly.

00:23:13.339 --> 00:23:16.443
But it was funny towards the end of the meeting when you called the chair a pedo.

00:23:17.365 --> 00:23:19.647
Do you know, that one I laughed at.

00:23:20.087 --> 00:23:23.972
So that was, I guess not, again, you're the first person with Tourette's I've ever met.

00:23:24.053 --> 00:23:29.994
So in terms of my question, I was often thinking when you have these tics, Are you thinking these things?

00:23:30.276 --> 00:23:33.519
Like when one of the producers left the room and you told him to fuck off?

00:23:33.818 --> 00:23:34.239
Yeah, no.

00:23:34.338 --> 00:23:35.701
Was you actually thinking fuck off?

00:23:35.740 --> 00:23:36.721
No, absolutely not.

00:23:37.041 --> 00:23:39.044
Kind of tell me a little bit about that

00:23:39.084 --> 00:23:39.223
then.

00:23:39.564 --> 00:23:44.229
Ticks come, for me personally, we all get a slightly different build up or a different urge.

00:23:44.528 --> 00:23:46.009
It can vary through the community.

00:23:46.049 --> 00:23:52.896
For me, if I try and hold a tick in, it's like electric running through my body, my muscles tense and suppression is really difficult.

00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:06.476
But ticks are triggered and they're relatable but The way I describe it is it's not entirely the same.

00:24:06.516 --> 00:24:08.038
It's a very hard thing to describe.

00:24:08.259 --> 00:24:16.292
If you haven't experienced it, then I've always said if someone was born completely blind, explain the colour blue to them.

00:24:16.993 --> 00:24:17.776
You can't do it.

00:24:18.778 --> 00:24:24.667
And so to explain the urge and how it happens to someone that hasn't experienced it is really difficult.

00:24:25.588 --> 00:24:29.230
But What I like to say is we've all had intrusive thoughts.

00:24:29.670 --> 00:24:30.951
It doesn't matter who you are.

00:24:31.472 --> 00:24:34.336
You've walked down the street and at some point you've judged.

00:24:34.896 --> 00:24:42.606
You might not ever say it out loud, but you might be looking at something or someone and have a thought, but you would never say it.

00:24:43.729 --> 00:24:46.553
We all have a different part of our brain that we can't control.

00:24:47.894 --> 00:24:50.458
We breathe every day without thinking about it.

00:24:50.753 --> 00:24:52.557
Our brain controls that breathing.

00:24:52.757 --> 00:24:54.400
Our brain controls us blinking.

00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:55.461
We don't think about it.

00:24:55.520 --> 00:24:56.082
We just do it.

00:24:56.102 --> 00:24:57.704
There's so much we don't think about.

00:24:59.007 --> 00:25:03.733
And the brain is a powerful thing, a really powerful thing.

00:25:04.315 --> 00:25:18.637
So for those intrusive thoughts to sort of bypass the signals, if you like, and come straight out of your mouth, as much as a natural thing occurs, like a scream, if...

00:25:19.105 --> 00:25:20.086
Something happens to you.

00:25:20.126 --> 00:25:22.269
Say you trap your finger in the door of the car.

00:25:22.970 --> 00:25:26.713
We can't suppress going out or whatever happens.

00:25:27.114 --> 00:25:29.237
It's as natural as that.

00:25:29.376 --> 00:25:30.337
You don't think about it.

00:25:30.397 --> 00:25:31.058
It just happens.

00:25:31.538 --> 00:25:32.599
It's literally like that.

00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:34.241
It's not necessarily a thought process.

00:25:35.123 --> 00:25:37.125
Occasionally, it can be anxiety-driven.

00:25:37.164 --> 00:25:40.248
Anxiety makes tics worse.

00:25:40.307 --> 00:25:40.969
Tiredness makes...

00:25:41.009 --> 00:25:43.832
There's so many environmental factors that impact Tourette's.

00:25:45.394 --> 00:25:45.534
Whistle.

00:25:47.105 --> 00:25:48.587
But it's also relatability.

00:25:48.708 --> 00:25:52.191
Anyone that looks like a social worker to me normally gets the pedo tick.

00:25:52.771 --> 00:25:53.833
That's what happens at Champions.

00:25:54.074 --> 00:25:57.277
Okay, yeah, yeah.

00:25:57.336 --> 00:26:01.381
Baby things, that was, I'm glad people laughed because it took the edge off it.

00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:08.068
I don't know if you noticed, but halfway through that meeting as well, I punched my cup and it ended up in the middle of the room.

00:26:08.628 --> 00:26:08.749
Oh,

00:26:08.950 --> 00:26:10.852
yeah, I remember that one.

00:26:10.872 --> 00:26:14.214
I get really punchy with things and touchy.

00:26:14.955 --> 00:26:16.657
If it's there, my tics see it.

00:26:16.930 --> 00:26:24.223
But the urge is almost instantaneous.

00:26:24.625 --> 00:26:27.028
It's sort of urge, tick, gone.

00:26:27.911 --> 00:26:30.115
It's really quite quick.

00:26:30.174 --> 00:26:32.539
There's not much of a warning.

00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:35.125
Half the time, I don't realise what I'm saying until it's already coming out of my mouth.

00:26:36.867 --> 00:26:39.993
It's a very hard thing to describe, but...

00:26:40.258 --> 00:26:42.461
I often don't know what I'm going to take before it comes out.

00:26:42.641 --> 00:26:42.800
Yeah.

00:26:43.182 --> 00:26:49.670
I can imagine, you know, there's certain situations where it does feel quite embarrassing to have those involuntary or social outbursts.

00:26:50.069 --> 00:26:50.550
Absolutely.

00:26:51.432 --> 00:26:58.119
So in terms of, like, racial or ethnic slurs or in the company of, like, I suppose the very people that would be offended by such words.

00:26:58.601 --> 00:26:59.082
Yeah.

00:27:00.022 --> 00:27:02.586
My producer, you told me a story about yourself at Pride.

00:27:05.409 --> 00:27:11.265
Tell me about this because you have examples maybe that can better educate others about But I think he was that proud with the microphone.

00:27:11.704 --> 00:27:12.046
Okay,

00:27:12.066 --> 00:27:12.665
yeah.

00:27:12.926 --> 00:27:13.027
See, I

00:27:13.667 --> 00:27:13.988
don't want to

00:27:14.048 --> 00:27:15.849
say the word, but obviously, yeah.

00:27:16.550 --> 00:27:18.673
So I'm on the Doncaster Pride Committee.

00:27:18.693 --> 00:27:18.953
Yeah.

00:27:19.734 --> 00:27:26.423
And I am the only trans member on the committee, also the only disabled one, but we use that.

00:27:26.463 --> 00:27:27.786
We don't use it as a tick box.

00:27:27.846 --> 00:27:28.125
Yeah, yeah.

00:27:28.226 --> 00:27:31.390
We use it as, look, we need to be trans-inclusive.

00:27:31.471 --> 00:27:32.932
This is what we need to do from my angle.

00:27:33.192 --> 00:27:34.173
Yeah.

00:27:34.529 --> 00:27:37.801
accessibility, we don't look at a map and say, how's it going to work?

00:27:37.962 --> 00:27:41.174
We get to the location, stick me there and say, B, how does that work?

00:27:41.296 --> 00:27:44.708
Well, I'll tell you how it works or how it doesn't work.

00:27:44.749 --> 00:27:45.592
Yeah.

00:27:46.561 --> 00:27:48.684
Hey, Con Guzzler.

00:27:49.586 --> 00:27:50.887
So I'm on stage.

00:27:50.907 --> 00:27:52.710
That was a good one.

00:27:52.730 --> 00:27:54.913
Speaking about trans inclusion.

00:27:54.992 --> 00:27:57.777
We had a transphobic MP, blah, blah, blah.

00:27:58.178 --> 00:28:01.040
On stage, there's about 20,000 people through the gates.

00:28:01.602 --> 00:28:08.131
And I'm halfway through my blurb, down the mic, and I literally just scream, faggots, out of nowhere.

00:28:08.330 --> 00:28:09.492
And...

00:28:10.786 --> 00:28:33.420
thankfully everyone had a pre-warning I have to write anything could happen but normally it's quite topical like yeah ticks can be I see someone BAME and I say 90% of the time a racial tick will come out and I'm I hate it because I was in foster care with a black twins.

00:28:33.901 --> 00:28:35.123
We were fostered at the same time.

00:28:35.143 --> 00:28:36.946
I saw them as my brother and sister.

00:28:37.367 --> 00:28:38.770
I didn't see a difference in skin colour.

00:28:38.851 --> 00:28:39.692
We were just humans.

00:28:40.335 --> 00:28:43.961
So to get racial ticks brutalises me.

00:28:46.721 --> 00:28:52.170
Yeah, they're really difficult to deal with mentally for myself, let alone anybody that's on the receiving end of one, right?

00:28:52.730 --> 00:28:53.632
I never mean it.

00:28:53.992 --> 00:28:54.032
Of

00:28:54.073 --> 00:28:57.176
course, yeah, and I think this is in terms of the awareness, if people don't know.

00:28:57.196 --> 00:28:57.857
Can I stroke your beard?

00:28:58.278 --> 00:28:59.901
If you want to.

00:29:00.162 --> 00:29:01.383
You can do it, by all means.

00:29:01.403 --> 00:29:02.724
Yeah, you can do it.

00:29:02.744 --> 00:29:04.067
But yeah, I can imagine.

00:29:04.106 --> 00:29:08.393
Jim, you said sometimes you can go home and you can cry about what you've said as part of these takes.

00:29:08.413 --> 00:29:11.518
I imagine the sort of racial slurs and things like that.

00:29:12.130 --> 00:29:18.715
They must be the harder ones because obviously you don't want to make anyone feel that way.

00:29:19.277 --> 00:29:19.798
Yeah, it's horrible.

00:29:19.817 --> 00:29:22.420
It really is like really horrible.

00:29:24.903 --> 00:29:31.429
I suppose what can people do to be more supportive and understand of individuals with Tourette's then?

00:29:31.909 --> 00:29:33.671
So the first thing is

00:29:34.172 --> 00:29:34.652
understand.

00:29:34.692 --> 00:29:44.181
Understand that it's a brutal condition that It's not something there to, we need to get rid of the locker room jokes.

00:29:46.183 --> 00:29:48.406
It's not something that anyone would ever choose.

00:29:50.148 --> 00:29:53.413
If someone said to me now, I've got a cure for your Tourette's, would you get rid of it?

00:29:53.492 --> 00:30:00.821
I'd say no, which is a really weird and bizarre thing because it's a condition that's disabling.

00:30:01.162 --> 00:30:01.962
It's tiring.

00:30:02.002 --> 00:30:07.650
It's got my squeak.

00:30:08.230 --> 00:30:10.993
My squeak really takes it out of my throat.

00:30:11.458 --> 00:30:21.711
I, two, three, four throat infections a year just from my squeak because the sore in my throat gets, the more the tickle pick on it and keep happening.

00:30:23.031 --> 00:30:26.115
But I wouldn't get rid of it because it's become part of me and who I am.

00:30:26.797 --> 00:30:27.938
Would I like to control it?

00:30:28.019 --> 00:30:28.338
Yes.

00:30:28.779 --> 00:30:29.601
But would I get rid of it?

00:30:29.621 --> 00:30:29.840
No.

00:30:29.921 --> 00:30:30.682
And there's a difference.

00:30:32.163 --> 00:30:36.209
The Turetsk, the community as a whole is so amazing.

00:30:36.229 --> 00:30:39.913
It's a community that I'm proud to be part of.

00:30:40.334 --> 00:30:40.413
Yeah.

00:30:41.250 --> 00:30:47.343
And I've met some of the most incredible people through this community that are going to be there for life.

00:30:47.604 --> 00:30:47.763
Yeah.

00:30:49.667 --> 00:30:52.374
So, but yeah, be understanding.

00:30:53.877 --> 00:30:56.222
Don't judge us.

00:30:57.305 --> 00:30:58.146
Don't laugh at us.

00:30:58.207 --> 00:31:08.596
Laugh with us, but don't, If someone's there and they're quite obviously struggling because of neck jerking or twitching or whatever, that's not something to stand and laugh at.

00:31:08.896 --> 00:31:09.917
That's someone in distress.

00:31:09.978 --> 00:31:10.939
Yeah, absolutely.

00:31:10.959 --> 00:31:14.503
But people do pick on that, particularly people in school and college and whatever.

00:31:14.544 --> 00:31:15.825
People get bullied for Tourette's.

00:31:16.306 --> 00:31:19.789
And we need to get rid of that.

00:31:20.109 --> 00:31:23.253
We need to gain understanding and get rid of it.

00:31:23.473 --> 00:31:26.397
If you're an employer or a business...

00:31:27.170 --> 00:31:29.512
approach whatever charity is local to you.

00:31:29.613 --> 00:31:33.557
So for Hull and Yorkshire, it's TIC, which I volunteer for.

00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:36.902
TIC Yorkshire is our domain.

00:31:36.922 --> 00:31:39.305
And then nationally there's Tourette's Action in Scotland.

00:31:39.325 --> 00:31:42.008
There's Tourette's Scotland in Manchester, Tourette's Manchester.

00:31:42.249 --> 00:31:43.691
There's organisations all over.

00:31:45.031 --> 00:31:52.902
Call us up, email us, book us in for training, learn about our community, learn about our condition, learn about what you can do.

00:31:55.585 --> 00:31:58.588
Because it, It doesn't cost you anything but maybe an hour of your time.

00:31:58.608 --> 00:31:58.648
Of

00:31:58.868 --> 00:31:59.309
course, yeah.

00:31:59.490 --> 00:32:02.693
But to us as a community, we appreciate it so much.

00:32:03.454 --> 00:32:06.038
There's more people with Tourette's out there than people realise.

00:32:06.798 --> 00:32:13.646
And it's just finally starting to be known about rather than hidden like some dirty secret.

00:32:14.248 --> 00:32:15.849
But we need to get rid of the stigma.

00:32:16.089 --> 00:32:17.771
And a lot of the media hasn't helped.

00:32:17.832 --> 00:32:24.440
There's been some phenomenal documentaries from people like our Johnny Davison, John...

00:32:25.922 --> 00:32:53.398
John's Not Mad and that was in the late 80s early 90s that was the first ever documentary on TV about Tourette's ever been seen and he followed it up with I Swear I Can't Help It and he's done a few others and they were fantastic educational documentaries that were brilliant but then more recently there's been other documentaries that have been really damaging to our community because the producers have edited it in such a way to be shock value and That's not what we want.

00:32:53.439 --> 00:32:54.681
We're not about entertainment.

00:32:54.721 --> 00:32:55.582
We're about awareness.

00:32:56.063 --> 00:33:03.673
And it's not fair on the individuals that took part in those documentaries that it was edited in such a way where it was used for shock value.

00:33:05.435 --> 00:33:11.503
So we just need really positive awareness that it's okay to have Tourette's.

00:33:12.325 --> 00:33:13.226
You're safe with us.

00:33:14.528 --> 00:33:15.608
Normalise.

00:33:15.970 --> 00:33:18.313
When I go to the pub with...

00:33:19.074 --> 00:33:22.817
whoever, I have to take a cup with a lid and a straw on.

00:33:23.318 --> 00:33:27.303
And if I have a pint, they have to pour it into that because I'm that bad at punching glasses, as you saw.

00:33:27.963 --> 00:33:30.527
I'm that bad for punching things and tapping things.

00:33:31.227 --> 00:33:34.089
We need to normalise not staring at me because I've got a cup with a straw.

00:33:34.130 --> 00:33:35.172
Simple things.

00:33:35.531 --> 00:33:40.698
I've just remembered you actually shared a story about being asked to leave a pub not so long ago because of your Tourette's.

00:33:41.097 --> 00:33:41.157
I

00:33:41.178 --> 00:33:41.919
couldn't believe that.

00:33:42.318 --> 00:33:43.000
Yeah.

00:33:43.461 --> 00:33:44.521
As a charity, we...

00:33:44.834 --> 00:33:50.240
We have adult night and we do things we wouldn't normally be able to do in a safe way.

00:33:50.902 --> 00:33:53.105
So we go to bingo.

00:33:54.026 --> 00:33:57.151
We've been bowling.

00:33:59.493 --> 00:34:03.038
People would laugh, like bowling with Tourette's, a load of you triggering each other.

00:34:03.078 --> 00:34:04.800
But yeah, we can and yeah, we will.

00:34:06.943 --> 00:34:07.845
We wanted to do a pub quiz.

00:34:08.365 --> 00:34:11.289
Now, pub quiz with a few adults with Tourette's and a few of them with coprolalia.

00:34:11.617 --> 00:34:16.525
It's going to be funny, but also there could be people a bit meh about it in the pub.

00:34:17.347 --> 00:34:28.483
So we phoned a pub up out of courtesy, not because we had to, because we're a protected characteristic, but we phoned the pub as a charity, and they say we won't have people like you in our pub.

00:34:30.005 --> 00:34:37.438
So, yeah, they blatantly refused us to even go, and all we did was phone them out of courtesy.

00:34:37.954 --> 00:34:58.822
courtesy like we're a group of idols for Tourette's can we come and join in pub quiz and is it okay just so your bar staff can explain to the customers or whatever and they wouldn't have us we've now found a pub that embraces us and loves us but it shouldn't have been like that that was mental but yeah that still happens we do get turned away from places

00:34:59.324 --> 00:35:04.791
what do you think some of the I guess main misconceptions are then about Tourette's that you'd like to address

00:35:05.293 --> 00:35:08.300
the first is that It's not a swearing disease.

00:35:09.501 --> 00:35:11.905
One in ten of us have coprolalia, so nine in ten don't.

00:35:11.965 --> 00:35:19.057
And even like me, with coprolalia, that's the bit that you notice in the street.

00:35:19.458 --> 00:35:26.311
But what you don't see is how many shoulder shrugs I've had a day and how much my shoulder's hurting and how it still keeps ticking.

00:35:27.652 --> 00:35:30.338
They don't see that, you know, 12...

00:35:30.753 --> 00:35:33.456
18 months ago, my winking was that hard.

00:35:33.557 --> 00:35:34.679
I was winking in my sleep.

00:35:34.739 --> 00:35:35.539
It was nonstop.

00:35:36.101 --> 00:35:43.610
And I turned up to my old job with what started to be a black eye because I've been winking for three, four days nonstop violently.

00:35:44.492 --> 00:35:46.233
And it wouldn't stop and it started to bruise.

00:35:48.797 --> 00:35:50.139
That's the reality of Tourette's.

00:35:50.739 --> 00:35:52.963
Tourette's is not kind.

00:35:55.144 --> 00:35:56.286
Tourette's is exhausting.

00:35:56.327 --> 00:35:58.188
And...

00:36:00.514 --> 00:36:07.929
Yeah, it's just a brutal, or can be a brutal condition, but just please take your time with us.

00:36:07.969 --> 00:36:09.336
Please try and understand us.

00:36:11.041 --> 00:36:11.601
No, thank you.

00:36:12.943 --> 00:36:15.626
So to talk a little bit about transgender.

00:36:15.686 --> 00:36:17.007
So transgender is an umbrella term.

00:36:17.447 --> 00:36:22.152
In addition to trans men and trans women, it may also include people who are non-binary or genderqueer.

00:36:22.172 --> 00:36:25.614
So I've got a little bit of a readout here that my producer's given me.

00:36:25.675 --> 00:36:27.797
So a little bit, a few facts here.

00:36:27.817 --> 00:36:38.786
But according to a 2018 survey conducted by the charity Stonewall, almost half of transgender people under the age of 26 said they had attempted suicide, while 84% said they had thought about it.

00:36:39.487 --> 00:36:46.072
This highlights the significant mental health challenges faced by transgender individuals and the need for better support and resources to address these issues.

00:36:47.034 --> 00:36:53.900
How do you think society can become more accepting and more inclusive of transgender individuals?

00:36:54.802 --> 00:36:55.021
Wow.

00:36:55.922 --> 00:36:56.764
It's a lot, that one,

00:36:56.804 --> 00:36:57.123
isn't it?

00:36:57.143 --> 00:36:57.304
Yeah.

00:36:57.324 --> 00:36:58.065
I can appreciate that.

00:36:58.224 --> 00:37:00.047
It's a big question, which...

00:37:04.431 --> 00:37:05.052
Where do I start?

00:37:05.992 --> 00:37:06.994
That's it.

00:37:07.054 --> 00:37:07.134
Yeah.

00:37:07.362 --> 00:37:11.327
So, I mean, like, my personal journey of coming out wasn't easy.

00:37:15.335 --> 00:37:19.161
In a lot of ways, I come out all the time.

00:37:19.181 --> 00:37:23.628
Every time someone misgenders me and I correct them, it's almost like coming out again and again and again.

00:37:23.668 --> 00:37:30.438
That's why I always start, whenever I introduce myself as a meeting, I'm always, I'm Bea, my pronouns are she, her, and I'm trans female.

00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:33.884
Because I just need to.

00:37:34.585 --> 00:37:35.005
Yeah.

00:37:35.362 --> 00:37:38.327
then people around me have got no excuse to get it wrong.

00:37:40.851 --> 00:37:47.481
But there's so much hate around trans.

00:37:48.724 --> 00:37:55.775
My gender is not political, but it's become political, and that's the problem.

00:37:57.538 --> 00:37:57.597
Yes.

00:37:58.657 --> 00:38:03.664
It should never have become political because how I live my life has got nothing to do with anybody else.

00:38:04.266 --> 00:38:05.327
I'm not hurting anybody.

00:38:05.367 --> 00:38:07.690
I'm just living authentically.

00:38:10.715 --> 00:38:12.619
So too fat for a vag.

00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:22.452
Really, what I want the people to know is don't believe everything you hear in the media.

00:38:24.016 --> 00:38:25.538
People are fast to jump on things.

00:38:26.278 --> 00:38:28.021
And the hate that is out there is...

00:38:29.153 --> 00:38:30.235
Unbelievable.

00:38:31.596 --> 00:38:36.742
So there's a big debate around trans women.

00:38:37.322 --> 00:38:41.847
And you normally see in the media, if anyone's going to make a comment about transgender, it's trans women.

00:38:42.407 --> 00:38:44.289
Trans men aren't really a threat to anybody.

00:38:44.789 --> 00:38:45.690
Trans women are.

00:38:46.771 --> 00:38:59.076
Just because less than 1% of trans people detransition, and there might be one trans person or person that claims to be trans, that's done a violent assault or something.

00:38:59.115 --> 00:39:00.436
Doesn't mean we're all like that.

00:39:01.378 --> 00:39:03.019
But they're the things that hit the media.

00:39:06.182 --> 00:39:10.987
I'm on blockers, a lot of blockers, and none of my parts work, if you like.

00:39:11.527 --> 00:39:12.889
So I'm no threat to anyone.

00:39:13.349 --> 00:39:18.153
I mean, I go in the disabled now, I have to, but pre being in a wheelchair, I'll go in the women's.

00:39:19.195 --> 00:39:25.882
And there's a lot of controversy around, should I be in the women's when I'm pre-op, if you like?

00:39:26.722 --> 00:39:28.603
Well, why not?

00:39:28.744 --> 00:39:31.947
I'm just there to do what everyone else is doing, which is good at the bathroom.

00:39:35.530 --> 00:39:41.655
If anyone, the trans people are the ones at risk, because I go in there on my own, but there might be five or six or seven people don't like that.

00:39:42.376 --> 00:39:48.143
The trans people are the vulnerable ones a lot of the time, and that gets overlooked because the media makes us out to be a threat.

00:39:49.384 --> 00:39:52.806
The government start arguing about, are we a threat?

00:39:52.847 --> 00:39:55.369
Well, how about the threat on us?

00:39:55.389 --> 00:39:59.297
Do you Just read out the suicide rates and the attempt to suicide rates.

00:39:59.637 --> 00:40:07.648
Is there any wonder that trans people have so many mental health problems and depression because of the way society's pressures are on us?

00:40:08.809 --> 00:40:15.077
Anybody does anything in the media around transgender and all of the haters jump on it in a really big way.

00:40:16.458 --> 00:40:20.784
And that makes it really difficult for us being trans.

00:40:20.884 --> 00:40:21.885
All we want to do is live our

00:40:21.925 --> 00:40:22.405
lives.

00:40:23.489 --> 00:40:39.954
I think there's this battle, isn't there, when people try to raise awareness about certain subjects, there's another percentage of people that suddenly think their way of life is going to be imposed on them.

00:40:40.257 --> 00:40:41.719
or they're suddenly feeling threatened.

00:40:41.760 --> 00:40:45.684
And I think the one thing I've learned over the years, the media will always find someone to vilify.

00:40:45.724 --> 00:40:57.260
And I think in terms of our line of work, we've talked about Benefits Britain and how people try and make out that those people who are on universal credit are somehow the ones ruining the entire society.

00:40:57.300 --> 00:40:59.264
The media always have to vilify someone.

00:40:59.324 --> 00:41:09.438
And I do think right now, especially over the past, I mean, what I've seen on Good Morning Britain and stuff over the past year, like you said, trans definitely is the topic now.

00:41:09.793 --> 00:41:21.690
But I guess one of the things that really interested me when I spoke to Andy Train on this podcast was he said that the trans community is around 20 years behind where the lesbian and gay community were.

00:41:22.210 --> 00:41:31.083
So a lot of the hate that trans people are getting now is the same as what those who are lesbian and gay was getting in the 80s and 90s.

00:41:31.523 --> 00:41:37.090
So he feels like in 20 years' time from now, the trans way of life will be a much more accepted way of life than where it is now.

00:41:37.652 --> 00:41:39.253
What do you think to that sort of...

00:41:39.713 --> 00:41:41.215
20 years beyond statement?

00:41:42.016 --> 00:41:43.478
I'm definitely

00:41:46.143 --> 00:41:47.304
with that statement all the way.

00:41:47.525 --> 00:41:48.766
We are definitely behind.

00:41:51.891 --> 00:41:52.512
Way behind.

00:41:53.434 --> 00:42:00.764
And partly it's because if you look at when same-sex marriage came in, then you look at the date of the Gender Recognition Act.

00:42:01.125 --> 00:42:02.606
The Gender Recognition Act was 2004.

00:42:02.646 --> 00:42:04.730
It's really recent.

00:42:05.538 --> 00:42:14.606
where we became legal to be us effectively, although the Equality Act protects us, the Gender Recognition Act allowed us to be us, like legally change our gender.

00:42:15.728 --> 00:42:19.331
So it is quite new in a way, but we've always been there.

00:42:19.371 --> 00:42:21.875
It's just that people didn't know about it.

00:42:25.418 --> 00:42:50.594
The hard thing I think as well, what's made things in a way harder for the trans community is 20 years ago, Facebook and Twitter weren't what they are now, or I don't know when they came out, but social media has evolved so much that people have a very easy platform to not only do awareness, but have opinions and push hate.

00:42:51.916 --> 00:42:56.164
You don't have to go out and push it face-to-face anymore.

00:42:56.704 --> 00:43:00.690
You can sit at home on your phone or on the bus or wherever and push hate.

00:43:01.090 --> 00:43:02.833
And I think the digital world...

00:43:03.777 --> 00:43:17.661
The misinformation, everything about it is different now, very different to how it was in a lot of positive ways, but also in a lot of negative ways.

00:43:19.143 --> 00:43:26.255
And I've had to, in my past, justify me being a woman.

00:43:27.157 --> 00:43:34.103
Someone literally asked me after doing trans awareness training for them, how do you see yourself as a woman when you can't give birth to a child?

00:43:34.242 --> 00:43:35.744
And it really took me back.

00:43:35.804 --> 00:43:37.947
It's like, whoa, right, hang on a minute.

00:43:38.869 --> 00:43:42.655
And it made me think of how to describe the phrase woman.

00:43:43.155 --> 00:43:50.465
Now, when this goes out, I know people might disagree with this, and it might be an unpopular opinion.

00:43:51.146 --> 00:43:55.452
But to me, woman is almost an umbrella term.

00:43:56.454 --> 00:43:56.574
Mm-hmm.

00:43:56.737 --> 00:44:04.849
Now, I'm not taking away from a woman being a woman, and I'm not saying women's rights are at risk here, because everybody needs rights, equal rights.

00:44:04.889 --> 00:44:06.251
We need personal rights.

00:44:06.271 --> 00:44:07.512
We need every right we can have.

00:44:08.773 --> 00:44:10.255
But what defines woman?

00:44:11.097 --> 00:44:15.583
Because if you have short hair or long hair, does that make you more or less woman?

00:44:15.864 --> 00:44:16.784
Well, to me, it doesn't.

00:44:17.746 --> 00:44:21.271
If you have a deep voice or a higher-pitched voice, does it make you more or less woman?

00:44:21.931 --> 00:44:22.612
I don't think so.

00:44:23.362 --> 00:44:26.545
if you're tall or short, does it make you more or less woman?

00:44:26.565 --> 00:44:29.467
Because you get tall women, you get short women, just like you get tall men and short men.

00:44:31.911 --> 00:44:34.934
If you can birth a child, does it make you more or less woman?

00:44:35.014 --> 00:44:36.956
Because my mum couldn't have kids.

00:44:37.016 --> 00:44:38.617
That's why she adopted me.

00:44:39.018 --> 00:44:39.858
She's still a woman.

00:44:39.898 --> 00:44:48.927
So just because of certain body functions shouldn't define who you are.

00:44:50.989 --> 00:44:56.217
And That's where I really struggle with people that are so anti-trans women.

00:44:56.438 --> 00:44:58.900
I don't understand the mindset.

00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:02.527
I'm living as me and you're living as you.

00:45:02.567 --> 00:45:09.157
If I identify as a woman, which I am, then they might say, well, what's down your pants?

00:45:09.177 --> 00:45:10.719
Well, sorry, but it's got nothing to do with you.

00:45:11.360 --> 00:45:12.282
I'm not asking you.

00:45:12.994 --> 00:45:15.577
any personal questions about your life.

00:45:15.597 --> 00:45:16.518
So that's the thing.

00:45:16.699 --> 00:45:19.143
You're suddenly open to all these really personal questions.

00:45:19.362 --> 00:45:20.344
Yeah, you are.

00:45:20.385 --> 00:45:21.365
People are like, well, what about this?

00:45:21.405 --> 00:45:22.186
What about this?

00:45:22.206 --> 00:45:22.688
What about that?

00:45:22.748 --> 00:45:22.827
Well,

00:45:22.867 --> 00:45:26.833
it's like, well, actually, if you took my blood right now, you get oestrogen, you wouldn't get testosterone.

00:45:26.873 --> 00:45:27.574
So what do you see?

00:45:27.614 --> 00:45:28.516
You see woman.

00:45:29.657 --> 00:45:32.161
If you look at my top half, I'm naturally grown.

00:45:32.181 --> 00:45:34.666
I'm on HRT and I've grown my own boobs.

00:45:35.425 --> 00:45:39.014
But even if I was flat chested, it wouldn't matter because again, well, how do you define woman?

00:45:39.657 --> 00:45:43.947
And I'll open it and I'll quiz people till the head's like overwhelmed in a way.

00:45:44.728 --> 00:45:51.105
But women's rights, you know, the reality is that 98% of domestic violence is man versus woman.

00:45:51.505 --> 00:45:52.909
And we know that.

00:45:53.985 --> 00:45:59.851
Sexism is still there and there is not many women you could ever meet in life that wouldn't have had a sexist comment made or whatever.

00:46:00.172 --> 00:46:03.655
Women have had to fight for rights and I completely respect the fight women have had.

00:46:04.034 --> 00:46:06.077
But also trans, we've got to fight for our rights.

00:46:06.617 --> 00:46:08.860
The LG and B have had to fight for their rights.

00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:11.101
Now the T is fighting, we're fighting for ours.

00:46:12.864 --> 00:46:16.947
So why can't we just all fight together for equality and just get on with it?

00:46:17.208 --> 00:46:17.969
Why does it have to be a

00:46:18.009 --> 00:46:18.708
hate and divide?

00:46:19.110 --> 00:46:23.554
So in terms of the hate and the divide, the one thing that I have seen doing the rounds online...

00:46:24.001 --> 00:46:32.954
is I guess people trying to trip up celebrities, political figures with the question, what is a woman?

00:46:33.193 --> 00:46:33.373
Yes.

00:46:33.614 --> 00:46:37.259
And then depending on their answer, jumping on them as being transphobic.

00:46:37.659 --> 00:46:38.181
Yeah.

00:46:38.481 --> 00:46:41.945
If someone said to you, what is a woman then?

00:46:42.206 --> 00:46:43.447
How would you answer that question?

00:46:45.329 --> 00:46:46.391
Is it a straightforward answer?

00:46:46.532 --> 00:46:46.672
No.

00:46:46.891 --> 00:46:47.032
No.

00:46:47.592 --> 00:46:48.134
I don't think so.

00:46:48.153 --> 00:46:48.193
No.

00:46:48.494 --> 00:46:51.358
Because you can't talk about chromosomes anymore.

00:46:51.458 --> 00:46:54.802
definitively, because you've got the intersex community.

00:46:55.123 --> 00:46:58.708
There's so much more than just a definition.

00:46:58.728 --> 00:47:06.541
It's kind of one of those where I identify as a woman.

00:47:06.561 --> 00:47:09.364
I'm making physical changes to be a woman.

00:47:10.427 --> 00:47:14.393
I one day will be complete as a woman, but I know I'm definitely not a man.

00:47:14.413 --> 00:47:19.840
It is a really hard question because...

00:47:21.474 --> 00:47:24.657
A lot of people will say, no, it's not you're either a man or a woman, it's what's down your pants.

00:47:24.677 --> 00:47:26.760
Well, no, that's sex, and sex and gender are different.

00:47:27.641 --> 00:47:29.523
Sex is how you're assigned at birth and what...

00:47:30.905 --> 00:47:35.869
There's all sorts of bits and pieces with it, but to me, it's who you are as a person.

00:47:37.032 --> 00:47:38.594
It's how you present to the world.

00:47:38.693 --> 00:47:49.286
It's how you feel in the morning when you get up, and there's just so much more to being a woman than what's down your pants or whatever, and it's just...

00:47:49.793 --> 00:47:50.795
you as a person.

00:47:50.956 --> 00:48:01.108
Now, granted, we need protection methods to a degree because we don't want people just saying, oh, I'm going to call myself a woman and access women's spaces.

00:48:01.188 --> 00:48:02.291
That's not what it's about.

00:48:04.773 --> 00:48:09.661
But it's a massive debate and it's a massive topic.

00:48:10.202 --> 00:48:13.206
To me, if someone said, what is a woman and what makes a man a man?

00:48:13.246 --> 00:48:19.134
It's how that person identifies, presents, lives.

00:48:19.585 --> 00:48:22.710
embrace his life what their mindset's like

00:48:25.114 --> 00:48:46.920
it's not a simple it's not a simple it's not no no no no no but it's it's interesting when we talk about the divide politics why why people are trying to trip people up and and you know and again i think there's just so much polarizing sense of just hate and separation and putting people into individual boxes when like you said You're just trying to live your life.

00:48:47.081 --> 00:48:47.981
Yeah, I'm just trying to live my life.

00:48:48.001 --> 00:48:49.164
Just trying to live your life.

00:48:49.184 --> 00:48:50.065
That's all I'm trying to do.

00:48:50.105 --> 00:48:52.507
But I often find this comes from external factors.

00:48:52.568 --> 00:49:00.318
It's people not even in that community trying to trip other people up in order to create a divide then within a community.

00:49:00.818 --> 00:49:02.181
So there's people going on.

00:49:02.340 --> 00:49:03.842
Obviously, you would have seen the stuff with J.K.

00:49:03.862 --> 00:49:04.184
Rowling.

00:49:04.384 --> 00:49:04.684
Oh, yeah.

00:49:04.885 --> 00:49:08.550
And a lot of that comes from external people not involved in that community.

00:49:09.442 --> 00:49:21.039
Giving her hate, or feeding her with information, which then comes out as hate, which is then retaliated and replied to by the LGBTQ plus community.

00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:25.425
And it's just this circle of hate, but with outside influence.

00:49:25.545 --> 00:49:27.048
And I just think it's bizarre.

00:49:27.769 --> 00:49:31.295
It is, and I hate the politics and the warfare behind it.

00:49:32.036 --> 00:49:34.018
Like, just let us be us.

00:49:36.903 --> 00:49:38.105
I want to just live as me.

00:49:38.626 --> 00:49:43.831
without hate and without judgment, without seeing trans rights on front page news all the time.

00:49:44.632 --> 00:49:48.777
I just want to be me and go to Pride every year and celebrate how far we've come, that I can live as me.

00:49:49.980 --> 00:49:53.503
I'm not in a country where I'll be stoned to death for being me or imprisoned.

00:49:54.105 --> 00:49:58.931
I can be me freely, and I'm proud to be able to be me, and I'm proud that I did come out.

00:49:59.632 --> 00:50:03.056
I'm proud I'm living as me and not trapped, and I'm proud of the community I'm part of.

00:50:03.856 --> 00:50:07.782
That's all I want to be able to do, but somewhere down the line we have to keep fighting because...

00:50:08.289 --> 00:50:08.911
So many

00:50:08.990 --> 00:50:09.711
fights to have.

00:50:10.012 --> 00:50:10.413
Absolutely.

00:50:11.092 --> 00:50:15.018
And on a more positive note, you won Miss Transgender 2017.

00:50:15.278 --> 00:50:15.458
I did.

00:50:15.539 --> 00:50:17.360
Which we have our little awards in front of us.

00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:25.030
So these pageants also serve as a platform to raise awareness about the issues affecting the transgender community and promote acceptance and understanding.

00:50:25.050 --> 00:50:29.876
So how did you first get involved in the Miss Transgender UK pageant?

00:50:30.137 --> 00:50:32.219
And what was that experience like for you?

00:50:34.282 --> 00:50:37.746
I kind of got there by accident.

00:50:38.818 --> 00:50:50.510
I had a good few friends that were models and I took a friend to a modelling shoot and she just said, why don't you model as well?

00:50:50.570 --> 00:50:52.193
And I'm like, stop being stupid.

00:50:52.472 --> 00:50:53.333
She said, seriously?

00:50:53.373 --> 00:50:54.556
It's a charity do.

00:50:54.755 --> 00:50:57.418
So I did and I quite enjoyed it.

00:51:00.242 --> 00:51:00.922
So I carried on.

00:51:00.963 --> 00:51:12.237
And then I was looking because I found a lot of transphobic photographers and I was doing these sort of charity shoots where models would pay however much, 10, 15 quid to go.

00:51:12.577 --> 00:51:14.139
Photographers would pay 20 quid to go.

00:51:14.179 --> 00:51:17.284
And we all take it in turns, you know, different bits of locations.

00:51:17.364 --> 00:51:19.688
And it makes a bit of money for charity.

00:51:19.728 --> 00:51:20.068
Brilliant.

00:51:20.989 --> 00:51:22.873
Photographers get a few bits of their portfolio.

00:51:22.893 --> 00:51:24.755
We get a few pictures for us and charities make money.

00:51:26.818 --> 00:51:29.382
But I started gaining confidence from it.

00:51:29.563 --> 00:51:34.110
So I started chicken, chicken, chicken.

00:51:34.338 --> 00:51:42.208
I started gaining confidence, wank, in a way that I was looking back at myself going, wow, a bit of makeup and nice.

00:51:42.429 --> 00:51:50.260
I really do look like a woman and feel like a woman rather than being stuck in this world where I'm being misgendered all the time and whatever.

00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:52.322
So it was kind of an escape from reality for me.

00:51:52.342 --> 00:52:03.617
And I was just looking around at trans modelling to try and avoid the transphobic photographers that refused to work with me or they would work with me and never send me the pictures and block me.

00:52:03.905 --> 00:52:07.231
because they didn't want to appear transphobic.

00:52:09.233 --> 00:52:12.257
And I stumbled across Miss Transgender UK and I was like, oh, okay.

00:52:13.418 --> 00:52:16.003
And I looked at it and I thought, oh, it's an application form.

00:52:16.262 --> 00:52:16.784
I'll send it.

00:52:16.824 --> 00:52:17.244
So what?

00:52:18.425 --> 00:52:19.788
And then a few months later, I didn't have anything back.

00:52:19.807 --> 00:52:24.173
And a few months later, I get this, well, send us some pictures, do this, do that.

00:52:24.193 --> 00:52:24.974
So I did all the things.

00:52:25.014 --> 00:52:31.224
And then I just found myself in the final, which I did never expect.

00:52:31.244 --> 00:52:32.465
It was crazy.

00:52:32.505 --> 00:52:32.606
Yeah.

00:52:33.378 --> 00:52:48.101
So I suddenly found myself needing to do a project for charity, get sponsors, get a dress, get my wings made, get all these bits and pieces made because I was going to the finals.

00:52:48.141 --> 00:52:48.742
I was like, wow.

00:52:50.284 --> 00:53:01.101
So I went to the finals not ever thinking I would win because, for me, I didn't even think I'd get to the finals, let alone anywhere else.

00:53:01.121 --> 00:53:01.521
It just...

00:53:01.954 --> 00:53:03.655
Just to be in the finals was incredible.

00:53:03.916 --> 00:53:04.217
Of course,

00:53:04.898 --> 00:53:04.978
yeah.

00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:12.666
I did my speech and did my bits and pieces, had some support from some old friends that came down to Brighton to see me.

00:53:12.706 --> 00:53:17.572
And then I won the whole thing, which was insane.

00:53:17.592 --> 00:53:20.436
I mean, really insane.

00:53:20.456 --> 00:53:20.536
Yeah.

00:53:20.938 --> 00:53:22.539
Because it's the last thing I expected.

00:53:22.619 --> 00:53:24.561
Of course, yeah.

00:53:24.983 --> 00:53:30.690
That really launched me into this world I'd never experienced of...

00:53:32.418 --> 00:53:36.304
News feeds wanting me, newspapers calling me, wanting an interview.

00:53:38.748 --> 00:53:45.998
But it was a year that was, it made me, but it's a year that also nearly killed me.

00:53:47.139 --> 00:53:47.380
Why?

00:53:50.666 --> 00:54:01.021
It put me in a position where one minute I'd be on BBC TV or ITV, whatever, Sky News, whoever it was.

00:54:01.858 --> 00:54:03.239
would be interviewing me.

00:54:03.300 --> 00:54:04.119
And it was fantastic.

00:54:04.181 --> 00:54:07.483
I'd get a voice and I'd get a platform to get things out there.

00:54:08.565 --> 00:54:09.806
But then at night I was alone.

00:54:09.827 --> 00:54:09.847
I

00:54:10.807 --> 00:54:11.288
was in a

00:54:11.307 --> 00:54:18.096
hotel room or whatever, dealing with an undiagnosed neurodiverse brain, really struggling.

00:54:18.757 --> 00:54:25.463
But then it also put me in a position where I was socialising with different people to what I'd normally socialise with.

00:54:26.764 --> 00:54:29.027
What that came with was drugs.

00:54:29.809 --> 00:54:31.070
Okay, yeah, yeah.

00:54:31.233 --> 00:54:40.626
It was very easy for me to go out after an interview with my crown and my sash on, mixed with a load of people, trying to come to toilets and just have a quick line or whatever.

00:54:40.726 --> 00:54:52.023
And it spiralled this journey because, as I was saying earlier about drugs being a way of blocking things out, it was too easy.

00:54:52.063 --> 00:54:56.869
And years and years of being on and off substances...

00:54:59.106 --> 00:55:03.170
That was probably my worst year on substances I've ever had in my life.

00:55:05.652 --> 00:55:10.958
The pressures of the media, seeing the hate, the hate that was on the media.

00:55:11.938 --> 00:55:14.280
If you're in the media for something different, never read the comments.

00:55:14.300 --> 00:55:17.083
It's true because they will drill you into the ground.

00:55:17.143 --> 00:55:20.547
Awful comments like people telling me to go and commit suicide.

00:55:21.128 --> 00:55:23.931
People saying that I'm a man in a dress and I should never be allowed out.

00:55:24.150 --> 00:55:26.474
And LBC radio chewed me up.

00:55:26.786 --> 00:55:39.646
I was in the express didn't know I was in the express but the express did a piece on me and they found my dead name and they outed it and then LBC radio picked it up and everyone's been on LBC radio as well have I?

00:55:39.746 --> 00:55:59.065
they've been reading your thing out and they made comments saying if this is what a beauty queen looks like then standards have dropped something terrible and this isn't a beauty queen it's like well Miss Transgender UK never was a beauty contest it was about raising a platform for a minority community and So they got the facts completely wrong.

00:55:59.847 --> 00:56:06.295
But it doesn't stop that on breakfast morning radio, that was read out and that was about me.

00:56:06.675 --> 00:56:09.599
And there's no way of replying to it or responding to it.

00:56:09.918 --> 00:56:11.802
It was really difficult.

00:56:12.523 --> 00:56:14.605
The media put me in a really dark place.

00:56:14.885 --> 00:56:18.650
As much as they did a lot of good for me, they also put me in a very dark place.

00:56:18.710 --> 00:56:19.030
It was a very

00:56:19.431 --> 00:56:20.172
double-edged sword.

00:56:20.231 --> 00:56:24.777
I think even though it's been, I mean, 2017, six years, I can't imagine...

00:56:25.634 --> 00:56:27.135
Not necessarily being said now, though.

00:56:27.637 --> 00:56:32.405
I think people would be a lot more careful with possibly...

00:56:32.925 --> 00:56:36.351
I mean, this is just my personal opinion.

00:56:36.391 --> 00:56:42.139
I just don't think mainstream media would necessarily push that hate as much today as they did six years ago.

00:56:42.380 --> 00:56:48.030
Do you think that there has been a change in mainstream media in the way that they push that, I guess, narrative?

00:56:48.353 --> 00:56:49.094
I would hope so.

00:56:49.114 --> 00:56:52.298
There's a big be kind thing now, isn't there, I think, in mainstream media.

00:56:52.318 --> 00:56:52.639
There is.

00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:57.385
I think they're very careful not to, well, the comments you just said, that's bullying, isn't it?

00:56:57.724 --> 00:56:57.844
Yeah.

00:56:57.925 --> 00:56:59.327
I don't think you'd necessarily see that.

00:56:59.987 --> 00:57:00.188
No.

00:57:00.268 --> 00:57:07.297
I think the past, since, I just think the past couple of years there's been a massive change in that, but that's, I guess, how do you think of that?

00:57:07.898 --> 00:57:08.759
The way I feel is

00:57:09.079 --> 00:57:17.509
COVID made an impact on everybody where people that have never suffered mental health conditions before suddenly found themselves anxiety and depression or whatever.

00:57:18.050 --> 00:57:18.110
Hmm.

00:57:18.210 --> 00:57:28.530
We had this massive push of awareness for mental health and isolation and pushed like almost be kind narrative where nurses are our heroes and teachers need recognising, you know, and that was amazing.

00:57:28.791 --> 00:57:31.836
Cleaners became heroes instead of looked down on, if you like.

00:57:31.896 --> 00:57:33.501
And that was incredible.

00:57:34.402 --> 00:57:38.126
But I think, for me, in the media, Caroline Flack changed

00:57:38.186 --> 00:57:38.447
a lot.

00:57:38.586 --> 00:57:38.646
I

00:57:38.666 --> 00:57:38.987
was about

00:57:39.007 --> 00:57:39.447
to say that.

00:57:39.568 --> 00:57:47.657
I do think the death of Caroline Flack changed so much in terms of that media and the bullying and basically that entire narrative.

00:57:48.418 --> 00:57:48.518
Well,

00:57:48.577 --> 00:57:48.637
I

00:57:48.657 --> 00:57:48.797
mean,

00:57:49.619 --> 00:58:00.391
if you look at how the public responded to Phil and Holly at the Queen's Coffin, where David Beckham waited in the queue, but they apparently queue skipped.

00:58:00.451 --> 00:58:02.914
What went through my head was...

00:58:03.329 --> 00:58:13.286
If they have queue skipped, they've kept people going through lockdown by six o'clock in the morning or whenever they get up, being on the telly, doing their routines.

00:58:13.346 --> 00:58:16.231
So people sat at home isolated still have Phil and Holly to watch.

00:58:16.831 --> 00:58:20.356
They've never given up trying to keep people's spirits up.

00:58:20.898 --> 00:58:25.364
If they were filming for their breakfast TV show and...

00:58:26.369 --> 00:58:29.994
in between filming and getting up the next morning to film again, they've queue skipped.

00:58:30.695 --> 00:58:35.119
If they wait in a queue for 12 hours, they wouldn't have been able to do their job and keep people's routine in the morning.

00:58:35.139 --> 00:58:36.320
That's a good way of looking at it, yeah.

00:58:36.340 --> 00:58:37.342
I saw a different side.

00:58:37.541 --> 00:58:38.663
That might not have been the case.

00:58:38.682 --> 00:58:39.503
No, no, but it's an

00:58:40.164 --> 00:58:41.306
interesting look at it.

00:58:41.385 --> 00:58:45.731
I hadn't seen the argument for that situation yet, but now you're saying that, I'm like, yeah, that's a good point.

00:58:45.751 --> 00:58:46.391
That's the way I feel.

00:58:46.532 --> 00:58:47.612
And also, with Phil

00:58:48.014 --> 00:58:55.322
coming out, the amount of hatred he got from comments online for coming out as gay was...

00:58:55.681 --> 00:58:56.302
Horrific.

00:58:56.523 --> 00:58:58.766
So Phil almost had it double whammy.

00:58:59.547 --> 00:59:01.690
But this is after Caroline Flack.

00:59:02.210 --> 00:59:13.626
And I think I saw so many people mentioning Caroline Flack that I think it's there in people's heads that we need to be kinder because so what if they skip to Q?

00:59:13.686 --> 00:59:17.311
Tell me who hasn't at some point in their life skipped to Q.

00:59:18.072 --> 00:59:18.431
You know, I...

00:59:18.833 --> 00:59:18.952
I

00:59:20.235 --> 00:59:21.896
found that the Be Can narrative...

00:59:22.818 --> 00:59:23.579
to be really...

00:59:23.759 --> 00:59:27.385
I guess there's a preference, isn't there, when people want to be canned?

00:59:28.045 --> 00:59:30.409
People pick and choose when they want to be canned.

00:59:30.489 --> 00:59:33.474
I do find that.

00:59:33.695 --> 00:59:39.824
Someone said be canned, but only if you agree with everything else that I believe and say.

00:59:40.304 --> 00:59:44.992
And that's down to a lot of people's personal opinions, both left-wing and right-wing views.

00:59:45.032 --> 00:59:48.277
That's kind of an underlining narrative that you see there.

00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:51.202
I guess...

00:59:51.554 --> 01:00:03.507
Talking about social media a little bit there, can you talk about your views on the role of social media in shaping public perception of transgender individuals and the pros and cons of this platform for activism and advocacy?

01:00:03.548 --> 01:00:05.371
So you've said about the comment section.

01:00:05.411 --> 01:00:06.913
That can be...

01:00:07.253 --> 01:00:09.775
I mean, the comment sections are just about anything can be absolutely brutal.

01:00:09.835 --> 01:00:15.021
It's very rare that I think you'll ever come across a 100% positive comment section on social media.

01:00:16.885 --> 01:00:21.070
But I guess in some way that social media can also bring people who do feel...

01:00:21.538 --> 01:00:31.731
ostracised or, you know, segregated from other communities into, I guess, I like that one, being into more welcome communities.

01:00:33.373 --> 01:00:38.561
So, yeah, with social media, it's been a godsend to many.

01:00:38.581 --> 01:00:44.528
I mean, the way I found Tick, the charity, was stumbling across a Facebook group.

01:00:44.588 --> 01:00:48.094
Now I'm part of that charity, volunteering, and they've saved me.

01:00:49.282 --> 01:00:53.766
When I lost my job because of health, they picked me up so I wasn't at home seven days a week.

01:00:54.527 --> 01:00:56.429
They've believed in me to keep going.

01:00:57.309 --> 01:01:18.268
And social media has done the same for trans or for me personally in LGBTQ+, because when I'm sat at home and I'm alone, although there's hate and right-wing groups out there, and there is hate groups on Facebook that are anti-trans that politically go after us, as much as there is hate, there is also love.

01:01:19.266 --> 01:01:31.204
Every time I see if someone share a Facebook post saying, my social media page is a trans-friendly zone, if you don't like it, feel free to leave, I think to myself, there's love out there.

01:01:31.864 --> 01:01:34.128
There's still love and people proud to say they're allies.

01:01:34.148 --> 01:01:45.905
And every time someone sends me an email and it's got their pronouns underneath their name, even if they're not part of the community, it makes me feel so warm and included and happy because...

01:01:46.402 --> 01:01:49.445
saying my pronouns are she, her or he, him or whatever they are.

01:01:50.726 --> 01:01:53.047
Well, that means that you're doing it for a reason.

01:01:53.429 --> 01:01:55.010
You're doing it to show that you're safe.

01:01:55.690 --> 01:01:57.672
It's a very discreet way of saying I'm safe.

01:01:58.853 --> 01:02:00.896
And I really love that inclusivity.

01:02:00.976 --> 01:02:02.097
I've never thought about that before.

01:02:02.376 --> 01:02:04.438
We do a lot with our work.

01:02:04.478 --> 01:02:11.465
And I think it makes, for me, I often think, well, you see the name Matthew Butler and you're going to see that name and just think man.

01:02:11.525 --> 01:02:12.907
So I haven't got the pronouns in man.

01:02:13.246 --> 01:02:16.110
But when I see emails from someone called Sam and it has...

01:02:16.545 --> 01:02:17.646
He, him, she, her.

01:02:18.128 --> 01:02:20.130
I'm like, oh, that makes sense because I wouldn't necessarily know.

01:02:20.751 --> 01:02:26.516
But what you've just said then about it creating like that safe, you know, safe space, I didn't think of it like that before.

01:02:27.338 --> 01:02:29.360
So I'm probably going to add it to my emails now that that's been said.

01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:32.043
So yeah, I'm quite glad you've said that.

01:02:32.242 --> 01:02:36.907
I have my pronouns on my ID card for Tick and I have them on my emails.

01:02:37.208 --> 01:02:41.112
Our CEO, she added her pronouns on her emails.

01:02:42.012 --> 01:02:44.436
And it just makes me feel so inclusive.

01:02:44.456 --> 01:02:45.918
You go to many companies now.

01:02:46.657 --> 01:02:52.806
And my partner on her name badge where she works says Donna, she, her.

01:02:53.728 --> 01:02:55.771
And she chose to have her pronouns on a name badge.

01:02:57.253 --> 01:02:59.054
It's just so incredibly inclusive.

01:02:59.094 --> 01:03:00.237
But at what cost to anyone?

01:03:00.257 --> 01:03:01.117
It doesn't cost anything.

01:03:01.599 --> 01:03:04.503
And if you ever get a transphobe that says, oh, those snowflakes.

01:03:04.543 --> 01:03:09.349
Well, actually, I'm saying my pronouns are asking you pronouns because you might be a doctor or a reverend.

01:03:09.793 --> 01:03:12.317
You might not be a he, him, or a she, her.

01:03:12.637 --> 01:03:13.980
There's always a get-out.

01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:16.463
I've always got clever ways of getting around the transphobes.

01:03:17.083 --> 01:03:20.047
And I just love sharing them so people can be more

01:03:20.108 --> 01:03:20.628
inclusive.

01:03:22.751 --> 01:03:24.393
So, actually, going to...

01:03:24.574 --> 01:03:25.494
We're talking about...

01:03:25.835 --> 01:03:27.077
You talked earlier about growing up.

01:03:27.117 --> 01:03:32.485
I want to talk about what was it like growing up in a body that didn't match your gender identity?

01:03:33.025 --> 01:03:34.768
And how did you cope with that?

01:03:34.827 --> 01:03:36.731
Because I remember...

01:03:36.751 --> 01:03:37.170
Do you know what?

01:03:37.190 --> 01:03:38.452
There was a radio host...

01:03:39.938 --> 01:03:40.378
Stephanie.

01:03:40.838 --> 01:03:43.681
Yes, with Capital FM.

01:03:44.262 --> 01:03:51.911
And when I read that story, I was like, that makes sense to say she felt like a woman trapped in a man's body.

01:03:53.273 --> 01:03:55.856
And that was my first introduction to the trans community.

01:03:55.996 --> 01:03:58.378
So I think I would have been about 16, 17.

01:03:58.398 --> 01:03:59.800
We've gone back a few years here.

01:04:01.461 --> 01:04:05.226
What was it like for you growing up in a body that didn't match your gender identity?

01:04:06.266 --> 01:04:06.668
Living hell.

01:04:08.048 --> 01:04:08.230
Yeah.

01:04:08.429 --> 01:04:08.510
Yeah.

01:04:09.762 --> 01:04:13.766
I'd go to bed at night wondering and thinking about how I could cut off what was downstairs.

01:04:15.126 --> 01:04:16.268
I attempted it a few times.

01:04:18.230 --> 01:04:18.931
I wanted to.

01:04:20.271 --> 01:04:24.275
A lot of the times, the only way I thought that I could fix things was ending everything.

01:04:27.958 --> 01:04:33.344
It's really tough because you're looking at a society that you don't think will accept you, which a lot of the time, unfortunately, that's true.

01:04:33.364 --> 01:04:39.070
And you're in a body that doesn't define who you are.

01:04:39.362 --> 01:04:42.646
You are physically something that you're not.

01:04:44.027 --> 01:04:46.530
Everyone hates or most people hate something about themselves.

01:04:47.231 --> 01:04:51.255
It doesn't matter if it's their weight, which is probably the most common, or their height, or their nose shape.

01:04:51.414 --> 01:04:52.936
There's something, a mole.

01:04:53.257 --> 01:04:55.460
There's always something people don't like about themselves.

01:04:55.480 --> 01:04:56.119
They can live with it.

01:04:56.800 --> 01:05:01.005
But when it's your entire existence, that changes everything.

01:05:01.826 --> 01:05:02.847
I've hated my voice.

01:05:02.887 --> 01:05:05.911
I've hated my body parts.

01:05:05.931 --> 01:05:11.885
I've hated my structure of how I'm a my skeleton is, my wider shoulders.

01:05:11.905 --> 01:05:13.166
I've hated my name.

01:05:13.206 --> 01:05:15.289
I've hated how people call me he, him.

01:05:15.829 --> 01:05:18.952
I've hated how I was pushed into gender-specific sports.

01:05:19.052 --> 01:05:22.396
So I was made to play football and rugby while the girls did netball and hockey.

01:05:24.057 --> 01:05:28.922
I've just hated every single living, breathing thing about being male.

01:05:29.623 --> 01:05:30.804
Despised it.

01:05:31.666 --> 01:05:32.766
And it wasn't who I was.

01:05:32.806 --> 01:05:35.050
And...

01:05:36.545 --> 01:05:39.831
I got to the point when I came out, it was end it or come out.

01:05:41.293 --> 01:05:42.695
And if I couldn't come out, I was going to end it.

01:05:43.315 --> 01:05:46.942
And I said to myself, what's the worst thing that can happen if I come out?

01:05:47.081 --> 01:05:52.369
If I lose everything, which I pretty much did, but if I lose everything, I can still end it after.

01:05:52.409 --> 01:05:53.711
So let's just give it a try.

01:05:55.534 --> 01:06:05.630
And then the feeling of, although I've got a lot of hate and rejection, the feeling of the freedom I had, the warmth, the fulfillment of being me,

01:06:06.177 --> 01:06:08.141
It

01:06:08.181 --> 01:06:10.565
was probably the first time I felt alive in my whole life.

01:06:12.128 --> 01:06:13.208
How old was you when you came out?

01:06:13.228 --> 01:06:13.931
24.

01:06:14.070 --> 01:06:17.416
Oh, okay.

01:06:17.436 --> 01:06:19.239
It's not late as such, is it?

01:06:19.298 --> 01:06:26.050
But I think, you know, I mean, just a lot of my friends that are in the community came out as teenagers, I suppose.

01:06:26.911 --> 01:06:27.112
Yeah.

01:06:30.797 --> 01:06:30.878
Yeah.

01:06:32.769 --> 01:06:33.992
What was it like then?

01:06:34.012 --> 01:06:36.394
Because you said you felt like you lost everything.

01:06:36.956 --> 01:06:38.818
Did you lose as much as you thought you was going to?

01:06:39.278 --> 01:06:41.222
Because obviously, are your parents still in your life?

01:06:41.782 --> 01:06:43.704
I think you said your parents are still there, aren't they?

01:06:43.844 --> 01:06:45.306
Yeah, we had a rocky patch.

01:06:45.547 --> 01:06:45.947
Okay, yeah.

01:06:46.248 --> 01:06:47.190
A very rocky patch.

01:06:48.652 --> 01:06:49.552
I lost some of my family.

01:06:50.253 --> 01:06:50.333
Yeah.

01:06:50.353 --> 01:06:52.396
Some of my birth family and my adopted family.

01:06:53.599 --> 01:06:54.300
Lost a lot of friends.

01:06:55.240 --> 01:06:55.740
Lost my job.

01:06:57.224 --> 01:07:00.208
Believe it or not, I was oofed out my job, yeah.

01:07:00.547 --> 01:07:01.949
I didn't think they could do that, though.

01:07:02.434 --> 01:07:03.394
The law says they can't.

01:07:04.177 --> 01:07:04.878
Okay, just do it anyway.

01:07:05.338 --> 01:07:07.081
But they find ways.

01:07:07.101 --> 01:07:08.121
Yeah, I guess they always do.

01:07:08.141 --> 01:07:09.184
Fabricating things.

01:07:09.384 --> 01:07:09.583
Yeah.

01:07:10.766 --> 01:07:11.266
It's horrible.

01:07:11.907 --> 01:07:23.023
And when I went to my next job, I decided to keep growing my hair, live a split life.

01:07:23.123 --> 01:07:26.588
So I was living as female outside work, but living as male inside work.

01:07:28.391 --> 01:07:29.193
There was...

01:07:30.018 --> 01:07:35.288
Probably upwards of 100 employees, and I ended up being a supervisor.

01:07:35.307 --> 01:07:40.699
I was on social media, but under a different name.

01:07:41.701 --> 01:07:43.503
Not under my dead name, not under my name now.

01:07:43.523 --> 01:07:46.168
I was kind of toying with names at the time, but I didn't think anyone would find me.

01:07:46.449 --> 01:07:48.432
Someone did find me on social media.

01:07:48.474 --> 01:07:52.722
They thought I was a, in their words, cross-dresser.

01:07:54.626 --> 01:08:00.152
Screenshot my social media and emailed it to everybody saying, look at this person, look what they are.

01:08:00.192 --> 01:08:00.211
I

01:08:04.135 --> 01:08:06.318
just can't imagine why anyone cares so much.

01:08:06.978 --> 01:08:17.649
I guess that's always my thing with these sort of topics is, why do people have so much time and energy into caring what other people do?

01:08:18.130 --> 01:08:19.331
It's like anti-gay rallies.

01:08:19.551 --> 01:08:21.613
How have you got the time?

01:08:22.145 --> 01:08:23.427
Why do you care so much?

01:08:23.627 --> 01:08:29.215
You've got a day free in your week and you want to spend that time spewing hate.

01:08:30.336 --> 01:08:32.779
I'd love to have a day free to do something for me.

01:08:34.341 --> 01:08:36.384
People have got that time and that's what they choose to do.

01:08:36.423 --> 01:08:43.471
And I just can't understand why people put so much of their own energy into something so negative.

01:08:45.014 --> 01:08:46.916
It does not affect them in the slightest.

01:08:48.037 --> 01:08:48.939
I don't understand it.

01:08:49.500 --> 01:08:51.202
I mean, I said...

01:08:53.634 --> 01:09:02.663
In my TED Talk, which you watch, I made a point about neurodiversity and difference making a stronger team.

01:09:04.104 --> 01:09:12.734
If you've got 10 people that are all just– this is going to sound very stereotypical, but there's a point behind it.

01:09:14.076 --> 01:09:26.594
If you've got 10 right-wing thinkers, straight white males in a room– And then you've got another room and you've got a mix of races.

01:09:26.734 --> 01:09:29.519
You've got a mix of neurodiversity and neurotypical.

01:09:29.559 --> 01:09:30.921
You've got a mix of genders.

01:09:30.962 --> 01:09:34.506
You've got a mix of disabilities, you know, all bits and pieces.

01:09:35.248 --> 01:09:36.631
And you've got the same projects too.

01:09:36.690 --> 01:09:38.795
You're going to achieve those results very differently.

01:09:38.814 --> 01:09:48.690
I can almost put money on it that the group of neurodiversity and mixed genders and everything else will come out with a more creative solution.

01:09:48.711 --> 01:09:50.314
And I think...

01:09:51.202 --> 01:09:52.264
That's not box ticking.

01:09:52.444 --> 01:09:53.085
That's life.

01:09:53.185 --> 01:09:55.368
That's about creative difference in thinking.

01:09:56.250 --> 01:10:00.636
Where this hate comes from for us minority communities, I don't know.

01:10:00.657 --> 01:10:09.771
I don't understand why people find the energy and the passion to hate on a minority community that's already under pressure and scrutiny.

01:10:09.851 --> 01:10:10.853
That's it, isn't it?

01:10:11.434 --> 01:10:14.458
Put your hate into hating on paedophiles, murderers.

01:10:14.979 --> 01:10:16.021
Put your hate into...

01:10:17.057 --> 01:10:25.087
People that deserve hate, that have made conscious bad decisions that have harmed another individual, that's where you should be putting your energy.

01:10:25.127 --> 01:10:26.467
You don't need...

01:10:26.849 --> 01:10:33.695
Put your energy into helping aid Ukraine and people suffering or Turkey and the earthquakes.

01:10:33.997 --> 01:10:35.257
Put your energy into helping.

01:10:35.798 --> 01:10:41.224
Don't put your energy into hating a minority community that's not bringing hate on you or harm to you because there's no point.

01:10:41.965 --> 01:10:46.010
I don't understand where this negative passion comes from, but all I do know is...

01:10:46.658 --> 01:10:48.539
Love will always win.

01:10:49.360 --> 01:11:00.632
Because every year, I will be in a pride parade at Doncaster, Hull or wherever I am, shouting, screaming, whistling, whatever I need to be doing, saying I'm here and I'm not moving.

01:11:01.354 --> 01:11:02.354
And I'm proud of being here.

01:11:03.395 --> 01:11:05.658
And no amount of hate is ever going to stop our community doing that.

01:11:06.158 --> 01:11:13.686
What advice would you give to someone struggling with their gender, their identity or their sexuality?

01:11:13.707 --> 01:11:13.726
I

01:11:15.349 --> 01:11:18.256
would say to you is, It can be a very dark place.

01:11:19.198 --> 01:11:25.810
There are some families that, for whatever reason, have very much beliefs against LGBTQ+.

01:11:27.112 --> 01:11:32.421
If you're in one of those and there is a way out, there is safety, there is a community waiting for you to embrace you.

01:11:32.461 --> 01:11:37.009
It's okay to live and be your authentic self.

01:11:37.130 --> 01:11:39.394
Just always remember to keep yourself safe.

01:11:40.354 --> 01:11:45.943
And it's all very well and good people shouting and screaming, be you and don't be unapologetically you.

01:11:45.983 --> 01:11:53.194
But we have to understand that some people's circumstances do not allow them to, to come out with all the colors straight away.

01:11:53.775 --> 01:11:54.997
Just make sure you're safe.

01:11:55.238 --> 01:11:59.204
Reach out to people and reach out to people in a safe way.

01:11:59.225 --> 01:12:01.148
It's okay to be you.

01:12:01.188 --> 01:12:06.556
Don't let anybody stop you being you and make sure you know that there's a life ahead of you.

01:12:06.577 --> 01:12:13.350
Don't, Don't end your life because you think you can't be you now because you always can be in the future.

01:12:13.390 --> 01:12:16.474
It took me 24 years until I became me.

01:12:17.154 --> 01:12:18.537
But now I've got my life ahead of me.

01:12:19.358 --> 01:12:21.721
And now I'm living instead of existing and surviving.

01:12:21.881 --> 01:12:22.963
And there's a big difference.

01:12:23.363 --> 01:12:29.734
But if you need to live and survive for a few years before you come out and live, then that's also okay.

01:12:30.253 --> 01:12:32.317
There's no right or wrong time to come out.

01:12:32.877 --> 01:12:35.341
There's no right or wrong way to come out.

01:12:35.746 --> 01:12:38.850
You've got to do it your way and for you in your time.

01:12:39.152 --> 01:12:40.373
Oh, thank you.

01:12:42.037 --> 01:12:47.506
Can you tell us a little bit about, so we'll talk a little bit about the, obviously you've mentioned being in a wheelchair, you've mentioned disability.

01:12:48.046 --> 01:12:53.855
Can you tell us a bit about your experience with F&D and being in a wheelchair and how has that affected your daily life?

01:12:55.359 --> 01:12:55.679
Well,

01:12:59.805 --> 01:13:01.829
at first I was dead against getting a wheelchair.

01:13:02.402 --> 01:13:06.688
It started off with what we call drop ticks, where your legs give way and you drop to the floor.

01:13:06.728 --> 01:13:07.588
It's part of Tourette's.

01:13:09.292 --> 01:13:13.136
It can also be seen as a functional tick, which is a tick that affects function of your body.

01:13:13.157 --> 01:13:21.889
I was getting, my knees were getting bruised to the point that they were scabby, and then I was dropping on bruised, scabby knees.

01:13:21.988 --> 01:13:22.890
It was hell.

01:13:23.671 --> 01:13:27.055
But I was dropping to the point where I broke my coccyx.

01:13:27.356 --> 01:13:30.621
This is the level of how violent it was.

01:13:31.181 --> 01:13:31.261
Yeah.

01:13:31.746 --> 01:13:35.270
People around me that were supporting me were saying, B, you need a wheelchair.

01:13:35.310 --> 01:13:36.431
And I was dead against it.

01:13:37.792 --> 01:13:38.875
But I gave in.

01:13:39.375 --> 01:13:40.136
Why was you against it?

01:13:44.060 --> 01:13:45.762
I've always been quite independent.

01:13:46.122 --> 01:13:48.386
So pre-COVID, I did my first triathlon.

01:13:50.148 --> 01:13:50.548
Yeah,

01:13:50.609 --> 01:13:53.893
I did my first triathlon.

01:13:54.332 --> 01:13:57.055
I couldn't imagine doing the sprint, never mind the rest of it.

01:13:57.157 --> 01:13:58.918
I did my

01:13:58.958 --> 01:14:01.561
first triathlon on a broken ankle.

01:14:01.826 --> 01:14:02.086
Wow.

01:14:02.807 --> 01:14:03.328
The full thing.

01:14:03.488 --> 01:14:04.872
I went with a broken ankle and did it.

01:14:06.654 --> 01:14:07.896
The pain was next level.

01:14:09.340 --> 01:14:09.980
But I was doing it.

01:14:10.001 --> 01:14:11.743
It was on my bucket list and I was finishing.

01:14:11.783 --> 01:14:16.993
And I've always been quite an independent person.

01:14:18.275 --> 01:14:25.328
So to put myself in a box, if you like, mentally of becoming vulnerable because...

01:14:26.434 --> 01:14:30.578
Although I don't look at other people being vulnerable, to me it felt vulnerable.

01:14:30.837 --> 01:14:42.390
To be lower than everybody else, to be defenceless, because I've been assaulted quite a few times since coming out as being transgender.

01:14:42.449 --> 01:14:50.476
It was a whole mindset of being lower and thinking, I don't know, there was just some stigma in my head around me being in a chair.

01:14:50.518 --> 01:14:54.981
And that was mentally hard to get over.

01:14:55.297 --> 01:14:57.621
from triathlon to wheelchair.

01:14:57.822 --> 01:14:58.061
Yeah.

01:14:58.403 --> 01:15:00.805
Particularly when my legs were still working at the time.

01:15:00.845 --> 01:15:03.590
Why do I need to be in a chair if my legs work?

01:15:04.891 --> 01:15:05.653
That was hard.

01:15:06.654 --> 01:15:08.037
So I really struggled to accept it.

01:15:08.056 --> 01:15:12.103
But then once I was, once I got my first chair, this is my third chair.

01:15:13.805 --> 01:15:18.292
But once I got my first chair and I was in it, I realised that, oh my God, I'm safe.

01:15:19.012 --> 01:15:24.862
Because at one point, me and my partner were going through ASDA and I dropped ASDA.

01:15:25.217 --> 01:15:27.680
And two staff come up, do you need a first aid or is everything okay?

01:15:27.900 --> 01:15:29.462
The panic of it made things worse.

01:15:31.426 --> 01:15:34.309
So at least no one was staring.

01:15:34.328 --> 01:15:35.810
There was no danger there anymore.

01:15:35.871 --> 01:15:37.693
But then the FND started kicking in.

01:15:38.054 --> 01:15:41.037
Now, FND stands for functional neurological disorder.

01:15:41.898 --> 01:15:43.260
It's a software problem in the brain.

01:15:43.680 --> 01:15:45.563
My spine is perfectly fine.

01:15:45.603 --> 01:15:46.944
I have no spinal cord injury.

01:15:47.704 --> 01:15:50.769
My legs are fine.

01:15:51.130 --> 01:15:51.550
They're good.

01:15:52.711 --> 01:15:54.594
But most of the time they don't work.

01:15:54.913 --> 01:15:59.301
When I say don't work, you could put a needle down my legs and I wouldn't feel it don't work.

01:15:59.820 --> 01:16:01.283
That's how much they don't work.

01:16:01.904 --> 01:16:07.011
It's a software glitch in the brain where it forgets where things are, if you like.

01:16:07.332 --> 01:16:10.317
FND can cause multiple different things.

01:16:11.177 --> 01:16:12.359
But for me, it was my legs.

01:16:12.420 --> 01:16:16.966
It was almost like my brain saying, your legs are dropping, you're causing harm, we're going to protect you and cut them off.

01:16:18.689 --> 01:16:19.951
And that's how it's progressed.

01:16:21.193 --> 01:16:21.373
Yeah.

01:16:22.881 --> 01:16:24.703
Life in a wheelchair has changed so much.

01:16:24.725 --> 01:16:28.829
I mean, I make a real big point of, at first I learned to wheelie my chair.

01:16:28.869 --> 01:16:30.112
Now I've got my own.

01:16:30.171 --> 01:16:31.734
This is a custom build, this one.

01:16:31.753 --> 01:16:33.315
This is like my forever chair, if you like.

01:16:33.416 --> 01:16:37.181
But as soon as I had my own, this feels like an extension of my body.

01:16:37.341 --> 01:16:38.823
It doesn't feel like I'm sat in a chair.

01:16:38.884 --> 01:16:41.807
That's the difference between my past wheelchairs and this one.

01:16:42.488 --> 01:16:49.057
And I learned to wheelie, not to show off, but to be able to pop curbs.

01:16:49.729 --> 01:16:50.711
Because

01:16:50.831 --> 01:16:53.052
not everybody's got a drop curb, but I wasn't letting that stop me.

01:16:53.453 --> 01:16:54.373
So I learned how to wheelie.

01:16:57.518 --> 01:16:59.960
It's changed life so much because everything has to be planned.

01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:02.362
Can't just jump on a train and go somewhere.

01:17:02.943 --> 01:17:04.524
Can't just jump in a car and drive.

01:17:04.564 --> 01:17:06.565
My car's been adapted, so I drive with my hands.

01:17:06.947 --> 01:17:11.930
So I can't now drive friends' cars or my parents' cars or whatever because I can only drive my own.

01:17:11.951 --> 01:17:18.618
A lot of people see disabled bays and think it must be accessible, but not.

01:17:19.073 --> 01:17:22.939
All places are, because you look at the disabled bay, there might not be a drop curb around it.

01:17:23.319 --> 01:17:24.400
And that happens quite a lot.

01:17:24.822 --> 01:17:30.989
You might see a disabled toilet and think, oh, accessible, but then the aisles are too narrow and you can't get your chair through.

01:17:31.050 --> 01:17:37.979
There's so many things in life that make life inaccessible, and that's been a really hard thing to mentally get my head around.

01:17:38.039 --> 01:17:40.963
The way people treat you is so different.

01:17:42.305 --> 01:17:46.390
I've had people talk to my partner instead of me because she's standing and I'm not.

01:17:48.213 --> 01:17:50.837
And It's got to have been difficult for her as well.

01:17:50.978 --> 01:17:51.838
I mean, Donna's my life.

01:17:51.878 --> 01:17:52.921
She's the reason I got clean.

01:17:54.042 --> 01:17:56.806
It was her that made me change my life and helped me change my life.

01:17:56.868 --> 01:18:02.537
And she's the living, breathing thing that keeps me clean and keeps me away from substance abuse.

01:18:04.420 --> 01:18:07.305
But I used to walk down the street holding hands with her.

01:18:08.162 --> 01:18:09.444
Now I'm pushing my push rims.

01:18:09.524 --> 01:18:12.387
So it does change a lot of stuff for her as well.

01:18:12.448 --> 01:18:13.750
It changes the relationship.

01:18:13.810 --> 01:18:16.894
It changes everything about your dynamics of everything.

01:18:17.173 --> 01:18:19.216
Everything has to be planned around accessibility.

01:18:21.118 --> 01:18:22.461
And people do treat you differently.

01:18:22.480 --> 01:18:25.845
I don't have any handles on my wheelchair.

01:18:26.166 --> 01:18:28.269
When I had it made, I said, what handles do you want?

01:18:28.349 --> 01:18:28.810
A folding?

01:18:28.869 --> 01:18:30.212
I said, I want ones that will come off.

01:18:30.271 --> 01:18:31.393
So I've got screwing handles.

01:18:32.162 --> 01:18:44.840
I only ever have my handles on my wheelchair if we're doing something like Tough Mudder or an event where I need to be pushed because I was in a supermarket and someone came behind me, grabbed my wheelchair and pushed me out of the way to get past.

01:18:44.920 --> 01:18:46.181
No excuse, no nothing.

01:18:46.221 --> 01:18:48.965
It really scared me because I started moving.

01:18:48.984 --> 01:18:49.987
I didn't know who was behind me.

01:18:51.548 --> 01:18:52.369
Someone really did.

01:18:52.390 --> 01:18:53.310
I can't.

01:18:53.332 --> 01:18:53.912
That

01:18:55.774 --> 01:18:55.814
is.

01:18:55.835 --> 01:18:56.256
Yeah.

01:18:56.775 --> 01:18:58.278
Yeah.

01:18:58.297 --> 01:18:59.279
Your biggest belief.

01:18:59.961 --> 01:19:00.761
I wouldn't dream of it.

01:19:01.122 --> 01:19:04.067
I don't think no sane person would dream of it, to be honest.

01:19:04.587 --> 01:19:05.108
People do.

01:19:06.010 --> 01:19:07.671
People see it as an inconvenience.

01:19:08.212 --> 01:19:17.226
And I get really dirty looks sometimes when I'm pulling a disabled bay off some people because I think you look too young or whatever.

01:19:17.287 --> 01:19:18.529
And there's my blue badge.

01:19:18.590 --> 01:19:25.340
And when they see the chair out, you can physically see their facial reactions change.

01:19:26.041 --> 01:19:27.663
Oh, that person is in a wheelchair.

01:19:27.724 --> 01:19:28.666
Oh, okay, fair enough.

01:19:28.845 --> 01:19:28.926
Yeah.

01:19:29.282 --> 01:19:34.854
Because I guess disabled bays and accessible things get abused so much that there's too many assumptions.

01:19:35.295 --> 01:19:38.000
The amount of people I've embarrassed is amazing.

01:19:38.681 --> 01:19:43.372
I've been to the theatre and I was waiting for an accessible toilet.

01:19:43.412 --> 01:19:48.301
There's two toilets that are accessible, the theatre we were at, but they don't have radar locks on.

01:19:48.706 --> 01:19:52.891
And I'm sat there, and my partner's with me, just waiting for someone to come out.

01:19:52.971 --> 01:19:57.578
And two young girls came out drinking, looked at me, and their faces changed.

01:19:57.599 --> 01:19:59.341
You've never seen them so embarrassed in their lives.

01:19:59.742 --> 01:20:05.891
They've used the disabled toilet because they couldn't be bothered to queue, and because it's bigger, so they can both use it, you know, going together.

01:20:05.931 --> 01:20:09.157
And to come out and someone be waiting in a wheelchair was just classic.

01:20:09.636 --> 01:20:10.899
They would never do that again.

01:20:10.939 --> 01:20:15.386
But there's something around the dignity in it as well, in that...

01:20:16.386 --> 01:20:24.715
The facilities do get abused and I need a wider bay because if I can't get my door all the way open, I can't get my chair next to the door to transfer.

01:20:24.734 --> 01:20:32.643
If there's one accessible toilet, then I need that because I need a grab rail to transfer.

01:20:32.662 --> 01:20:35.586
I need that extra space to get my chair next to the toilet.

01:20:35.645 --> 01:20:37.226
It's not there for you to abuse.

01:20:37.768 --> 01:20:39.369
People just do flippantly.

01:20:39.529 --> 01:20:43.394
And mentally, it's really hard already switching to...

01:20:43.810 --> 01:20:48.635
but then when people abuse your accessibility, that makes things really difficult.

01:20:48.795 --> 01:20:54.579
And the stigma behind wheelchairs, the assumption is you can't walk for a lot of people.

01:20:55.541 --> 01:21:09.574
And if my legs, if I'm having a good day and maybe I can walk for 10 minutes or five minutes till I drop or whenever, however long I work for them, scrape myself up again, their heads go straight to fraud.

01:21:10.536 --> 01:21:11.896
Like, you don't need that chair.

01:21:12.056 --> 01:21:12.698
Is it for benefit?

01:21:12.717 --> 01:21:13.595
Well, No, it's not.

01:21:13.914 --> 01:21:14.695
It's because I need it.

01:21:15.237 --> 01:21:16.658
I would never choose this life.

01:21:17.099 --> 01:21:18.320
I don't think many people would.

01:21:19.421 --> 01:21:24.269
And it's been a really tough, mentally, a really tough, flipping life.

01:21:24.708 --> 01:21:28.073
I've done some pretty crazy stuff that's helped me accept it.

01:21:30.636 --> 01:21:32.298
Like doing my first Tough Mudder last year.

01:21:32.338 --> 01:21:39.068
That helped me accept myself so much because if I can get through a Tough Mudder in my chair, then I can do

01:21:39.108 --> 01:21:39.328
anything.

01:21:39.347 --> 01:21:39.889
That's incredible.

01:21:39.929 --> 01:21:40.510
Yeah.

01:21:40.865 --> 01:21:42.927
We said we're going to do a Tough Mudder this year.

01:21:42.967 --> 01:21:44.930
I've never done a Tough Mudder before, but to do it.

01:21:44.989 --> 01:21:50.373
Actually, to be on that topic, we're actually hosting the Recovery Walk this year.

01:21:50.413 --> 01:21:54.217
It's a national event celebrating recovery from drug and alcohol this year.

01:21:54.257 --> 01:21:57.881
This year, it's 15 outing and comes a whole for the first time.

01:21:57.900 --> 01:22:07.069
And I suppose the focus of the UK Recovery Walk is a public education and outreach campaign that communicates by offering living proof of the reality of long-term addiction and recovery.

01:22:07.569 --> 01:22:10.271
So we'd like to, first of all, formally invite you to the walk.

01:22:10.551 --> 01:22:10.832
Thank you.

01:22:10.832 --> 01:22:19.204
Can you tell us a little bit about participating in walks like this, including Team Tick, Tough Mudder, and you rock climbing as well?

01:22:21.007 --> 01:22:22.109
Well, abseiling.

01:22:22.569 --> 01:22:22.791
Yeah,

01:22:23.231 --> 01:22:24.052
abseiling, okay.

01:22:24.113 --> 01:22:25.755
So later this year, I'm going abseiling.

01:22:26.195 --> 01:22:30.243
Okay, yeah, tell me about this then.

01:22:30.823 --> 01:22:36.912
Well, so as a group of charities, nationally and locally, we've got Tick, which is us, Tickhorn Yorkshire.

01:22:37.453 --> 01:22:37.533
Yeah.

01:22:37.729 --> 01:22:43.136
Then there's Tourette's Action, which is a national charity, Tourette's Scotland, Tourette's, as I mentioned earlier.

01:22:44.216 --> 01:22:55.149
And we host things like TIC, we hold an annual symposium where all the charities come together and we educate teachers, medical professionals, public teachers.

01:22:55.488 --> 01:23:00.475
We get them all together and we give lived experience talks, sensory processing education, formal education.

01:23:01.216 --> 01:23:01.916
We do all sorts.

01:23:01.956 --> 01:23:04.019
Then we have a party and a charity night after.

01:23:04.498 --> 01:23:38.038
We bring the country together in a way to talk to deliver something it's incredible well we do all different events and we all go to each other's events if you like and one of the ones later this year Tickfest I've been told that there might be abseiling there well there will be as long as the venue's okay and if it is then I'm going me and my partner Donna we're going and yeah they're going to stick me on the edge of a cliff hoist my wheelchair to the bottom and I'm going over the cliff to catch it up brilliant Why not?

01:23:38.319 --> 01:23:47.351
I've done more since my legs have been poor than I have when I have my legs because I don't think you appreciate what you've got until something happens to you.

01:23:47.853 --> 01:23:51.037
It's all right looking at someone going, oh, I feel for that person.

01:23:52.698 --> 01:23:55.462
But then when you live it, it changes everything.

01:23:55.724 --> 01:24:04.796
And there's so much I would do if someone said, right, we're going to fix your legs and you've got 48 hours.

01:24:04.836 --> 01:24:05.858
What are you going to do with them?

01:24:06.434 --> 01:24:07.496
There's so much I'd do.

01:24:07.536 --> 01:24:08.877
I'd go snowboarding.

01:24:08.997 --> 01:24:09.838
I'd go skiing.

01:24:10.500 --> 01:24:13.283
I'd get on a bike again on two wheels upright.

01:24:13.323 --> 01:24:16.868
There's so many bits and pieces that I'd love to do.

01:24:17.810 --> 01:24:24.480
But now even if I can use them for a bit, it's not safe to because if they stop on me, I'm screwed.

01:24:25.703 --> 01:24:27.284
So now I'm in the position I'm in.

01:24:27.305 --> 01:24:30.710
If I can do something, I'm going to do it.

01:24:31.050 --> 01:24:31.190
So

01:24:33.154 --> 01:24:35.917
yeah, Tough Mudder last year, there was a team of five of us.

01:24:37.090 --> 01:24:44.478
from Team Tick, and we teamed up with Tourette's Manchester, and we took on the Northwest 15K Tough Mudder.

01:24:45.137 --> 01:24:50.923
I managed seven out of the 30 obstacles, which I didn't expect to be able to manage any of.

01:24:50.944 --> 01:24:55.809
15K is nearly nine and a half miles on mud and grass.

01:24:56.369 --> 01:25:00.354
With the mountain bike wheels on, the resistance is hell.

01:25:01.055 --> 01:25:03.978
So between the three of them, they got me round, which...

01:25:04.417 --> 01:25:07.261
plus doing their own Tough Mudder as a team we got me around.

01:25:07.863 --> 01:25:09.064
This year is slightly different.

01:25:09.765 --> 01:25:18.961
This year I have met a Tough Mudder ambassador who they've got round a Paralympian in a wheelchair nine times, including Europe's toughest mudder.

01:25:19.962 --> 01:25:24.389
So there's a team of 10 to 12 of them come in to put ropes on my wheelchair and pull me around.

01:25:24.408 --> 01:25:28.335
They're going to put me in a rock climbing harness, and I can take on every single obstacle.

01:25:28.375 --> 01:25:29.817
That's a 35-foot climb.

01:25:30.402 --> 01:25:32.944
That's crawling underneath a barbed wire through mud.

01:25:33.005 --> 01:25:34.746
That's going underwater.

01:25:35.386 --> 01:25:38.289
You name a Tough Mudder obstacle there, I'm taking it on.

01:25:38.729 --> 01:25:45.938
The climb up the ladders, they're going to go up first and pull me on rope so I can just use my arms and they've got my weight so I can still achieve it all.

01:25:46.717 --> 01:25:53.305
And the rest of it, they're going to pull me like my wheelchair, like I'm Santa and his sleigh with two big ropes coming

01:25:53.324 --> 01:25:54.605
off my wheelchair.

01:25:54.626 --> 01:25:54.886
I love that

01:25:54.907 --> 01:25:57.488
mental image that that just created.

01:25:57.909 --> 01:25:58.069
So...

01:25:58.369 --> 01:25:59.292
I'm taking...

01:25:59.311 --> 01:26:01.095
It's not easy, even though I'm sat down.

01:26:01.115 --> 01:26:10.314
I'm not walking 15K, but I can tell you from experience, when you're sat in a chair on rough terrain, the chair's shaking violently underneath you, like, shaking around.

01:26:11.296 --> 01:26:13.940
It takes out your core muscles, holding yourself upright, and...

01:26:14.497 --> 01:26:16.940
I'm doing everything with upper body, not with legs.

01:26:16.980 --> 01:26:20.166
So all the obstacles that everyone else has got four limbs for, I'm using two limbs.

01:26:20.886 --> 01:26:22.548
So it's still a hell of a challenge.

01:26:22.668 --> 01:26:23.130
Yeah, absolutely.

01:26:23.149 --> 01:26:27.796
That's become part of my life now with Tiki's Tough Mudder every year because it keeps you going.

01:26:27.836 --> 01:26:28.738
It's inclusive.

01:26:29.137 --> 01:26:36.328
I was about to say, I love that there is that element of inclusivity with it because, again, I don't think you'd have got that 10, 15 years ago.

01:26:36.769 --> 01:26:38.010
Probably not.

01:26:38.050 --> 01:26:40.694
So to have that provision in place now I think is incredible.

01:26:41.122 --> 01:26:41.882
I mean, don't get me wrong.

01:26:41.922 --> 01:26:43.145
It's not a wheelchair-friendly course.

01:26:43.246 --> 01:26:44.127
No, of course not.

01:26:44.568 --> 01:26:44.728
No, no.

01:26:45.029 --> 01:26:45.630
The people

01:26:45.670 --> 01:26:47.653
around you make sure you get there.

01:26:47.673 --> 01:26:47.894
Yeah, yeah.

01:26:47.913 --> 01:26:49.896
To still accommodate it is fantastic.

01:26:50.078 --> 01:26:59.453
But I mean, Tick, as a community, the Tourette's community is possibly the most inclusive community I've ever come across in that I'm always a different one somewhere.

01:27:00.135 --> 01:27:03.662
So when I go to LGBTQ plus groups...

01:27:04.417 --> 01:27:11.524
or I'm around LGBTQ plus people, I'm normally probably the only one with Tourette's and I'm in the minority being in a wheelchair.

01:27:13.707 --> 01:27:19.672
If I am around, say, an autism group or whatever it is, wherever I am, there's a difference.

01:27:20.793 --> 01:27:25.738
With the Tourette's community, there's quite a lot of LGBTQ plus in the Tourette's community anyway.

01:27:27.320 --> 01:27:29.342
But when I'm at TIC, I don't feel different.

01:27:29.823 --> 01:27:31.885
Yes, I'm trans, but I'm one of the girls in the office.

01:27:34.434 --> 01:27:36.476
I've got Tourette's, ticking is normal there anyway.

01:27:36.516 --> 01:27:38.860
Being in a wheelchair, I'm not treading differently.

01:27:38.900 --> 01:27:40.502
In fact, I'm encouraged to do things.

01:27:40.564 --> 01:27:43.387
It's not, oh, what about accessibility?

01:27:43.528 --> 01:27:45.832
Although when we go out, we have to ask those questions.

01:27:46.432 --> 01:27:47.154
There's no limits.

01:27:47.234 --> 01:27:49.957
It's tick that say, let's do Tough Mudder and let's get you round.

01:27:50.018 --> 01:27:50.979
We will get you round.

01:27:51.720 --> 01:27:57.270
Most people would see a barrier and they would put a barrier up to say, whoa, you can't do that.

01:27:58.470 --> 01:27:59.472
You can't get over that wall.

01:28:00.293 --> 01:28:02.578
Ticker there, holding the ladder, saying we'll push you up.

01:28:02.945 --> 01:28:03.567
That's

01:28:03.606 --> 01:28:04.828
the difference in mindset.

01:28:07.153 --> 01:28:23.280
That's what's given me my life and keeps me going, having the love and acceptance of my partner, keeping me going through everything alongside a charity that not only support me, but allow me to thrive and push me out there.

01:28:23.400 --> 01:28:52.527
Because you wouldn't think that a ticky, person with my labels would be out there delivering training and such forth well I am and they're encouraging it they're helping me thrive and that's so special and that's why the Touretic community as a whole is so tight but Tough Mudder is going to be incredible because there's a team of 19 of us this year plus the ambassadors joining us so yeah if you want to do Tough Mudder this year we're

01:28:53.408 --> 01:28:57.427
definitely going to do it aren't we we're definitely going to do it B, this has been fantastic.

01:28:57.448 --> 01:28:58.088
Thank you so much.

01:28:58.109 --> 01:29:01.394
What I've got to finish on is just 10 questions that I ask all my guests.

01:29:01.634 --> 01:29:01.833
Yeah.

01:29:03.076 --> 01:29:04.018
I'm going to go straight into it.

01:29:04.037 --> 01:29:06.001
So my first question is, what is your favourite word?

01:29:12.329 --> 01:29:12.970
It's a weird one.

01:29:14.113 --> 01:29:14.353
Help.

01:29:15.914 --> 01:29:18.059
Because help is the hardest thing to say.

01:29:18.099 --> 01:29:22.104
But help is also the thing that if you're strong enough to say, will change your life.

01:29:22.505 --> 01:29:22.886
I like that.

01:29:23.787 --> 01:29:24.809
Tell me your least favourite word.

01:29:27.970 --> 01:29:28.690
There's so many.

01:29:29.952 --> 01:29:30.813
And I'd take half of them.

01:29:36.958 --> 01:29:38.000
Oh, I'm really stuck on that one.

01:29:38.039 --> 01:29:39.240
That's a really tough question.

01:29:39.261 --> 01:29:39.921
There's so many.

01:29:39.980 --> 01:29:40.841
Do you know what?

01:29:40.942 --> 01:29:42.023
I've still got eight more of these.

01:29:42.963 --> 01:29:44.286
Tell me something that excites you.

01:29:45.867 --> 01:29:46.507
Opportunity.

01:29:46.887 --> 01:29:48.009
Achievable opportunity.

01:29:48.529 --> 01:29:49.530
What doesn't excite you?

01:29:50.211 --> 01:29:50.591
Barriers.

01:29:51.752 --> 01:29:53.694
What sound or noise do you love?

01:29:56.737 --> 01:29:56.858
Um...

01:30:05.698 --> 01:30:17.131
can't think of the word of it but there's a there's an instrument i think kind of like chimes the calming they use it in um therapy and stuff yeah yeah do you know what they're called

01:30:18.994 --> 01:30:26.725
is it just like wind chimes yes yeah kind of like that yeah calming yeah what sound or noise do you hate um anything that

01:30:26.864 --> 01:30:35.703
squeaks that triggers my tics what's your favorite curse word Believe it or not, I hate swearing.

01:30:36.685 --> 01:30:36.966
Really?

01:30:37.006 --> 01:30:38.948
My tics do enough of it for me.

01:30:39.470 --> 01:30:44.899
If it wasn't for Tourette's, I swear very little in conversation.

01:30:46.180 --> 01:30:49.706
My favourite?

01:30:50.728 --> 01:30:51.849
You don't have to answer that one.

01:30:51.868 --> 01:30:52.831
Well, I don't really have one.

01:30:52.911 --> 01:30:54.694
Yeah, honestly, because I hate swearing.

01:30:54.713 --> 01:30:54.734
I

01:30:55.033 --> 01:30:55.916
don't hate it.

01:30:55.935 --> 01:30:58.800
To be fair, yeah, that is interesting.

01:30:59.480 --> 01:31:02.126
What profession other than your own would you like to attempt?

01:31:03.649 --> 01:31:05.252
Ah, neurology.

01:31:05.672 --> 01:31:05.894
Nice.

01:31:06.875 --> 01:31:08.256
What profession would you not like to do?

01:31:13.225 --> 01:31:14.046
Solicitor for criminals.

01:31:15.948 --> 01:31:16.289
Last one.

01:31:16.711 --> 01:31:20.596
If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?

01:31:24.662 --> 01:31:25.203
That I did good.

01:31:26.806 --> 01:31:29.029
Thank you so much for coming on the Believing People podcast.

01:31:29.050 --> 01:31:30.412
You've been absolutely wonderful.

01:31:30.773 --> 01:31:31.453
Thank you for having me.

01:31:31.681 --> 01:31:37.608
And if you enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People podcast, don't forget to check out our other episodes and hit that subscribe button.

01:31:37.809 --> 01:31:40.832
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