Sept. 8, 2025
Emma Hardy MP: Floods, Ketamine & Community - Politics, Public Health & the Power of Unity
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Emma Hardy MP joins Believe in People for the second time to discuss Hull’s triple flood threat, the rise of ketamine harm, and the cost of living’s toll on mental health. From sewage systems to social housing, she tackles some of Britain’s biggest challenges. We also talk about the need for transparency in government to rebuild public trust, the role of innovation in solving long-term challenges, and why political leadership must prioritise bringing people together over exploiting division.
Emma’s insights highlight how tackling complex problems requires both practical solutions and a shared sense of purpose. We explore why unity, community, and even “poo-powered planes” could hold the key to a better future.
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🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” by Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)
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🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
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🏢 Network: ReNew
00:00 - Introduction to Emma Hardy MP
01:08 - Everything Wet: Water and Flooding
03:20 - Transparency and Public Trust
09:55 - Hull's Flood Risk and Community Protection
16:40 - Rising Ketamine Use Among Young People
22:02 - Cost of Living and Mental Health
38:59 - Social Recovery and Community Connections
45:35 - Staying Grounded in Politics
49:40 - Final Questions and Wrap-up
WEBVTT
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This is a Renew original recording.
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Hello and welcome to Believe in People, a two-time Radio Academy Award nominated and British Podcast Award winning series about all things addiction recovery and stigma.
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My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or, as I like to say, your facilitator.
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Today, on Believe in People, we're diving into Ketamine Harm Reduction, rising water bills, youth drug use and the sewage systems failing our communities, with none other than Emma Hardy, mp, back for her second appearance.
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From mental health backlogs to climate resilience, emma speaks with urgency and honesty about real issues affecting people across the UK, especially in Hull, her own constituency, which is one of the country's most flood-prone cities.
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She shares powerful reflections on teaching during the 2007 floods, why public trust matters and how broken systems, from housing to healthcare, need to change.
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This is a conversation about what's not working, what gives hope and what it really means to rebuild trust from the ground up, with stories of inequality, infrastructure, free school meals, poo-powered planes and more.
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We begin today's conversation by talking about Emma's current role in government.
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So officially I'm the Minister for Water and.
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Flooding so that's my new title.
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So yeah, see, that's good because I just think for looking after all things flooding, water quality and clean air.
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Is that right.
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I kind of describe it I probably shouldn't describe it this way is everything wet.
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Everything, yeah, just everything wet.
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Everything wet comes under your responsibilities, If it's wet, it's probably me, because I do oceans as well.
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So yeah, if it's yeah.
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So what was the first things that you were or that you have focused on within this role?
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The number one issue, because the number one issue in the general public is sewage going into the rivers, lakes and seas.
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So that's been the thing that people have got the most angry about over the, you know, over the last few years.
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So that's been kind of the number one focus of what can we do to reduce that, what needs to happen with the water companies, what needs to happen with enforcement.
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So we're looking at tackling it from different ways getting the money in to literally rebuild it, to rebuild the pipes, upgrade the sewage treatment works, but also enforcement as well to making sure that if things aren't done properly by water companies, there's a consequence for it, because it was felt for a long time that the system was unfair, that people were getting away with things that they shouldn't be.
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So they're the kind of things that we've been focusing on and then being whole being here flooding is the other big issue.
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Because that's a huge issue for our community.
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We're the second most flood-prone city in the whole of the country.
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We're at risk of flooding from Sorry to give you an order, just having a panic attack now, just thinking about it, oh God.
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Sorry, sorry, don't need to stress it we're not listening, but we're at risk of flooding.
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We've got the sea, we've got the river and we've got surface water got the river and we've got surface water, so we've got all different three types of flooding here in the city, so it's a big priority.
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And then there's some of the other things I do that are really interesting.
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So I do international oceans, so we're looking at the international plastics treaty to try and reduce the amount of plastic going into the ocean, and then stuff on pesticides and chemicals.
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But the majority of my time, I would say, is number one, spent on water quality.
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Have we got enough water?
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Are our, you know, is water quality high enough that?
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those are the issues and what we're doing about flooding yeah, I mean, you've spoken recently about the need to make things more transparent.
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Um, you mentioned the sewage then.
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Um, why do you think honesty matters when we do talk about the environment with people?
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I think, I think you kind of have to be.
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I think there's a problem at the moment of trust in politics.
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There is not, no, no.
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And I think officially it's at the lowest rate I think it's ever been.
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But there's generally I say not just politics, I think institutions, authorities, anything like that there's a whole lack of trust in it.
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So I think the more transparent and open you are with people helps to rebuild that trust.
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So I give you a an example on water.
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So one of the things we've said is that we want to put water monitors on uh, on as much as possible on the system, and that information will be uploaded so people can log on and see it for themselves.
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So they might not trust me saying it's improved or it's or whatever, but they can literally go on, have a look, see them on in themselves, have a look and I think trying to be as transparent, as possible and just being as honest with people.
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So you know people saying levels of pollution are unacceptable which of course they are but being honest to them about, okay, how long is it going to take to fix it?
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What needs to be done to fix it.
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So in some areas of the country it's upgrading that sewage treatment works.
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In other areas of the country it's introducing a separate power source for that treatment.
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You know whatever the answer is, but just telling people.
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Yeah, I find people are reasonable if you explain and you tell them.
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The problem we've got is because everything's through social media or sound bites or clips.
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Having that time to sort of explain something to somebody isn't always available yeah, and I think people really do take that really short snippet of information and then make an entire judgment based on, like you said, with social media, a 30 second reel or something, and not I'm not saying everybody needs to do research to the far end of it, of everything, but people are making decisions based on very small amounts of information and I think transparency, as you said, is probably key.
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Um, I think for me as well, like I, I never mind being told no, but I like I like an explanation as to as to why that no is, and that's been me since I was a child, I think.
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You know I never cared.
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If my dad can I have that no, but if there's a reason, yeah, I think it's one of my biggest gripes is just no.
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Well, why?
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Just because and I think this is what when you're saying there about that transparency and that information being available to people, that makes sense to me yeah, and I think being so one of the thing.
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Another thing that's caused some concern is we recently, or the environment agency, we recently produced something called NAFTA 2.
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And you're going to ask me what NAFTA 2 stands for, and I can never remember what NAFTA 2 stands for.
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I wasn't actually going to put you on the spot.
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NAFTA 2 stands for, but it's basically assessing flood risk in the country, and so now you can put your postcode in and it can tell you what's your level of flood risk in your individual street I and it can tell you what's your level of flood risk in your individual street.
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I can feel the anxiety just building up again like no, sorry, but I think having that transparency is really important.
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So, if people know and understand so there was some misreporting of, oh, the flood risk has really increased it's like, well, the flood risk hasn't increased, the flood risk was always there, but now you know about it, okay, yeah, so it's being honest with people and having that transparency about what the risks are, where they are and what kind of risks you know that you have and I think, as you say that, give me, give people more information.
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Now I have a small bugbear about when I did an interview recently and I won't mention who recorded it or who put it out there and did it, but I did about a 10 minute interview on drought and what we can do to prevent drought and you know talking about reducing leakage from pipes, water companies reducing leakage, building more reservoirs, all of this stuff I went through and I also said in that interview you know we could have shorter showers and the only thing that was reported from that entire interview was emma hardy says have shorter showers and I was so annoyed.
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This is it, though it's it's trying to, I suppose I saw I saw something before and it's around uh, information and it's like people don't necessarily want to be right anymore, they just want to be first.
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So, with with that saying in my hand, I think everything that you've said they've been really valid.
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But what is it that gets the attention?
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And it's that very small part and then the rest of it is void.
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And again, my annoyances of social media is when people will, um, comment based on the title of something, but when you actually click on the link and you read through it thoroughly, you go like all the all the comments are invalid because you've just taken again that short snippet of information, as opposed to the whole piece that's actually and it's available to you.
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It's just the you've chose ignorance, you chose not to click on the link, so you've probably read that title.
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Haven't read anything else that's been said, and just that very small part of information there it's, it's difficult, I, I, it's.
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I mean there's a lot.
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I feel like there's lots of tension at the moment in society and, as I say, biggest mistrust, not just mistress of politicians, but mistrust of the justice system, mistrust with the police, and there's a whole feeling of of people mistrusting, I feel, institutions you might have had, uh, you know more faith in how, and don't know how we get that back.
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But I think it has to be partly through openness, trying to be transparent, trying to give people an honest answer and, if you can't explain something, being able to say I'm really sorry, I can't.
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I can't explain that at the moment, but, you know, like trying to be as open with people as possible and then I hope, then you rebuild, rebuild that trust, because I think that's where we need to be yeah, it's so hard, as I just saying, with the dissemination of media, though, and the way it is like it is people just taking small amounts of information.
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Then people are putting the trust in in those people that are reporting and I don't think journalists realize what a big responsibility they have do you know what?
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I mean, I think it's a.
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It's probably one of the most, one of the jobs that come with more responsibility than people will ever, you know, think or give it credit for.
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But it's not.
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I know what I'm trying to say.
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I just don't think they, they you know with, as the spiderman film once said, with great power comes great responsibility, you know, and it kind of is that, I think, if the people in the media do have a great power and I don't think they use that responsibility wisely.
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But going back to, obviously, the local uh situations I mean talking about flooding and flood risks do you know we have a long memory, I suppose, here in hull, when it comes to flooding and I suppose how has that shaped the work?
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um, how has that shaped the way you think about community protection, especially with, you know, our coast, as you said, being under pressure, because I remember those 2007 floods?
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yeah, I remember I was on long island, there was a guy going down the street in like a little canoe and someone not long behind him in a rubber dinghy and I'm just like what is going on?
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Because I'd never experienced a uh, obviously a flood before.
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And it's interesting you say about Hull being the second most floodplain city, because you know, other than other than that 2007 stint.
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You know, we haven't experienced it.
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I felt like Cumbria was getting it every every couple of months at one point.
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It seems to always be on the news.
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So yeah, so I suppose, how, how was that shaped the way that you think, then?
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well, I mean now how you know.
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I think a lot of people remember that quite vividly.
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So I was teaching at the time teaching in willoughby primary and the water came into the classroom oh, wow yeah, and I was teaching six and seven years.
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I used to teach infants and them saying like mrs hardy there's water in the classroom.
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And being like oh yes, there is, let's not worry, let's just move into the.
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And we had to all move into the hall and call the parents.
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The parents come and collect the children.
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And then we set off to go home as the school just filled up with water and we couldn't drive home, so I walked from Willoughby to Hessel back through, waded through the water to get back to my house, to Hessel back through, waded through the water to get back to my house and I was really lucky because mine's just slightly on that slope that we escaped it.
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But, the other end of the street didn't, so we just missed out on home.
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But for the school it was out for months, but it was something I've always been really interested in.
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I mean, climate change is real and it's amazing, isn't it, that we have to restate the fact that climate change is real Climate change is real, everyone and we are going to see more flood events.
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I mean we're seeing wetter winters, we're seeing drier summers, you know we're seeing our climate changing and I think it's how do we prepare for that change?
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And there's been a lot since 2007,.
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To be fair, we've got lots more flood defences and we see them working the tidal barrier but also the big lagoons out by Willoughby and around the city.
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So we've had a lot done.
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But I think it's also about us thinking about being prepared for it and what we can do as individuals.
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And I find one of the things I find really sad is I go out and I talk to talk to people who've been flooded unfortunately, because it happens regularly and where the water's just gone into their property, and people understanding okay, you can't do much about it if you're a meter under or three feet and there's nothing you can do, but there are things you can do if you're just on the edge of it, you know, to try and protect your property and and making that greater awareness of things, Because there's so much we can do in terms of big schemes, as I say, the tidal barrier and lagoons and things like that.
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But there's also like do you have a plan?
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Do you know where your medication is in the event of a flood?
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Do you know who's vulnerable on?
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Your street and it sounds really depressing to be thinking about being prepared for an emergency, but kind of like do you remember at at school, did you ever do your fire plan?
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yes, yeah I think I want to try and get out to people that you need a flood plan as well yeah so you know what to do in the event of a fire.
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Do you know what to do in the event of a flood?
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But it's a difficult message because people don't want to be worried.
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Well, this is it.
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I think you know again, I'm probably very guilty of this, but you talk about being the second highest risk, the ignorance that I like to kind of live in you know, just for the sake of my mental health really.
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I think, because I live not too far from holding a strain and there's times when I walk my dog and the water's looking a bit high and I'm looking, going God, if that come up, do you know.
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But I mean, I said this at the conversation with my dad.
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I said look, I've lived in Hull for as long as I can remember.
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He said I don't even think when we had the 2007 floods that that necessarily, you know, came over.
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I can't remember if it did happen or not, but he was like you're obviously you've got to pay a premium because you live in x amount of meters of of a body of water and things like that.
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So, yeah, I suppose for me there is this.
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When we're getting a lot of rain or when I do see that water coming up, there is the anxiety, thinking, oh god, because again it's the despair.
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In 2007, the displacement and people was living in caravans, in like on the front gardens and things like that was just a.
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I think that's what kind of fills me in, especially having a child as well now you know, and a family Back in 2007, I was 16.
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You know, I only had myself to really look out for, whereas there now having responsibility for people.
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And even what you just said then was interesting.
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Because even if you don't have responsibility for people directly, as you just said, what about?
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Because even if you don't have responsibility for people directly, as you just said?
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what about like?
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elderly neighbors and and people that you would maybe need to step in and try and care for as well, so it's an interesting way of looking at it.
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You recently visited a new reservoir that's also open to the public, and it's not just pipes and pumps, it's a.
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It's a shared space, so do you think people do feel more connected to climate solutions when they are a part of them as well?
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you talked about transparency yeah, and I think you know you can make green spaces and you know people feel.
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We know people feel better when they're amongst nature, but people feel better when they're amongst you know water environments as well.
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It's so good for your mental health so yes, we want to build reservoirs because we want to make sure we're collecting the water when it rains, so we've got it when it's dry.
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It's that simple.
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But also these can be beautiful spaces for people to go and walk, you know, walk their dogs and enjoy it, obviously safely.
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I should stress, reservoir safely and then, of course, but you know, walk their dogs and enjoy, obviously safely, I should stress, reservoir safely but you know these can be really good community spaces too.
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And in Hull we've started to see some of our blue-green infrastructure, some of our aqua greens popping up around and you know these can be really nice spaces for nature.
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Because I'm really keen on.
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You know sometimes you've got to build a big concrete wall, you've just got to, but actually keen on you know sometimes you've got to build a big concrete wall, you've just got to, but actually for a lot of surface water flooding you can have something more beautiful, like more of a wetland area with planting and nature and things like that.
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That's a nice space.
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There's a lovely one out by.
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Oh gosh, now I'm going to get the wrong place.
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Is it up by orchard park when you was it?
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brands home.
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I know what you mean.
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Yeah, I was there not so long ago actually, yeah, and that is just looks like lovely fields that you can go all walking, but actually that's been designed to be an area that can flood.
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I had no idea it was there to be fair.
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I somehow stumbled across and I was having a walk.
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I was like I've lived here for all my life and I had no idea that this place was here.
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And that's a gorgeous example of something that protects the area, protects all the houses, but it's, most of the time, just looks like a lovely space to go and have a wander and walk your dog yeah, I'll put something on instagram.
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And a mate messaged me going where's that?
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That looks lovely.
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I replied brands over, it's like what it is it's really nice around here, so yeah, yeah, obviously we're a addiction recovery and uh podcast that you know tries to challenge stigma.
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So, looking towards drug use, changing drug use, in particular ketamine, because we have seen ketamine harm rising fast, especially among young people.
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As an mp, is this something that is on your radar at all?
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it's been raised with me by young people.
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I haven't had it raised, you know, through official channels, but it's been raised by young people.
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In fact, my daughter mentioned to me about a festival she went to and seeing a number of people who seem to be under the influence and it's becoming more common.
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So it's more something that I've heard young people talking about than I've had conversations with through through official channels.
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And I think what's really concerning me is I don't think there's enough understanding out there about how much damage this actually does, because when you're young you think you're going to live forever and be healthy forever.
00:17:25.051 --> 00:17:33.036
Of course you do, yeah, and you know any young person's assessment of risk is is not looking at my own life.
00:17:33.096 --> 00:17:34.078
It's diabolical.
00:17:34.118 --> 00:17:38.194
What I didn't consider to be a risk, but no well, I mean even.
00:17:38.375 --> 00:17:39.939
You know I mean down.
00:17:39.939 --> 00:17:48.271
It sounds as daft, as you know, when you're younger and you'll go on all the awful rides at hall fair and now I'm like I go to hall fair and I think, oh, I don't trust that.
00:17:48.392 --> 00:17:51.618
How can I trust a ride that's been put up in less than 24 hours?
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.463
I know, I'm exactly the same when I'm just walking.
00:17:54.463 --> 00:17:55.413
Oh no, I'll just.
00:17:55.413 --> 00:17:56.538
I'll just get my chips from.
00:17:56.538 --> 00:17:58.506
That's what I'm like now.
00:17:58.506 --> 00:18:00.172
Soak up the atmosphere, go on nothing.
00:18:00.613 --> 00:18:05.482
But you know this risk assessment I don't think's there, and I I worry a bit that.
00:18:05.482 --> 00:18:07.615
I mean, it's just been upgraded, hasn't it?
00:18:07.615 --> 00:18:23.978
From a class c to a class b, but I I'm a bit worried that we're a bit behind the curve and that young people are starting to use this more and there's not enough information out there to explain that this is really quite damaging and this can seriously damage you long term.
00:18:23.978 --> 00:18:28.320
And I'm not sure there's enough awareness, is my feeling.
00:18:29.089 --> 00:18:37.124
Yeah, I think the scary thing is, as it's been pointed out to me, you know, many times now is the irreversible damage that it can do.
00:18:37.124 --> 00:18:50.395
And there's people, you know, in their early 20s with like stoma bags attached to themselves and this is based on, you know, ketamine use that has absolutely just rotted away their insides and that isn't something that you know.
00:18:50.395 --> 00:18:52.060
Oh, there's a fix for that.
00:18:52.060 --> 00:18:55.111
It's now.
00:18:55.151 --> 00:18:56.513
that's you you know, for the rest of your life.
00:18:56.534 --> 00:19:00.060
You, you have that and I think that's the scary thing is how quickly it's damaging people.
00:19:00.060 --> 00:19:37.056
Because I mean, we're a service that, whilst we do not look at all substances, um I always say there isn't an emphasis on opiate and crack use and with that, um one of the risks that associated with uh hepatitis c, blood-borne viruses yeah but some of those blood-borne viruses aren't things that are going to damage that individual until maybe 20, 30 years down the line it's you know, very slow acting killer, um, whereas with ketamine it's no, the damage is there and it's almost instant as well, and I think that's the the this you know thing that we we do find scary.
00:19:37.115 --> 00:19:46.195
But I suppose the thing with with the substance in particular, it's not just about the addiction to the substance but looking at young people that are using it, and I'm I know you.
00:19:46.195 --> 00:19:52.601
When you said you was a teacher, you was very much with with young, young people but what was your previous uh job title in in government?
00:19:52.801 --> 00:19:53.953
was shadow.
00:19:53.953 --> 00:19:54.916
Yeah, so I was.
00:19:54.916 --> 00:20:03.419
So I was shadow minister for flooding and then, before that, shadow minister for universities okay, so maybe some experience with with that particular group as well.
00:20:03.459 --> 00:20:10.776
But yeah, that youth mental health and school pressure, education pressure and the long waiting lists that are there for help.
00:20:10.776 --> 00:20:22.459
Do you think right now that systems are set up to deal with the bigger picture of ketamine use and the damage that it is causing?
00:20:24.102 --> 00:20:32.020
my, my instinct is that there's there isn't enough awareness of how serious it is and the damage it can do.
00:20:32.020 --> 00:20:45.298
Um, and I feel like you know, and I, you know, probably as guilty of of this as anyone you're not, I mean, it's only that I've got a teenage daughter who's really that's why you knowledge of it saying something to me about it.
00:20:45.740 --> 00:21:16.093
Otherwise, you know, I'd probably have no knowledge, uh, or very little knowledge of, of it being a growing problem, and I think there is that difficulty of making sure that, I suppose, schools, colleges and people who have direct contact with young people have enough knowledge and information to, to share, you know, to share that out and let people know the damage, damage that's happening and, um, and I don't know if that's something I don't know, uh, whether when you do that work with the, yeah, I mean it's funny enough, it's things that it's been pointing out to us.
00:21:16.113 --> 00:21:26.670
You know we've got a pathway now don't we call it our non-ocu, which is the non-opiate and crack use, and that's for people who are struggling with cocaine addiction.
00:21:26.670 --> 00:21:31.416
Maybe you know problems with cannabis, ketamine.
00:21:31.416 --> 00:21:33.661
Again, I think it goes to the the.
00:21:33.661 --> 00:21:40.740
I say arrogance I don't mean it in such a negative way, but the arrogance of young people are the arrogance of youth, as we've just said.
00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:42.333
You know that lack of risk.
00:21:42.373 --> 00:21:51.261
I don't think enough people are necessarily engaging with it or engaging with the support, and I don't think they will until it's too late and and that's the reality of it.
00:21:51.261 --> 00:22:09.997
But, as we've said, you know we're seeing young people having these medical treatments for something that, realistically, you know could have been prevented and I suppose, like always, it's exploring the why behind that, what's going on for them in their life where they are turning to ketamine.
00:22:09.997 --> 00:22:13.752
But I think it is quite normal for young people to dabble in substance misuse.
00:22:13.772 --> 00:22:21.579
You said about your daughter at the festival not that she was not I'm not saying she was dabbling, but your daughter at the festival seeing people are dabbling.
00:22:21.619 --> 00:22:37.237
Of course you know a lot of them probably don't uh have childhood traumas or it's just that experimentational, recreational phase of their life, that's that's, you know, using substances, but again, um, that's why we're probably not necessarily getting them through the door.
00:22:37.237 --> 00:22:40.471
Is is because of that and that reason I suppose really so.
00:22:40.471 --> 00:22:42.875
Um, yeah, I guess it's.
00:22:42.875 --> 00:22:45.338
It's looking at are we adapting fast enough?
00:22:45.338 --> 00:22:50.233
And um, or do you think we're still playing catch up really with it?
00:22:51.217 --> 00:22:58.273
I think we could do more to be more up to date with with what's happening, and I tend to rely on you guys.
00:22:58.273 --> 00:23:05.176
Um, or the hospital or the police have been people that sort of generally tell me about this is a problem, we've got you know.
00:23:05.176 --> 00:23:12.742
So when we had an issue with um, I think there was some, uh, illegal sales or some particular bad batch of heroin was it.
00:23:12.762 --> 00:23:13.203
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:13.203 --> 00:23:17.076
In october last year we had a lot yeah, yeah that was having seen.
00:23:17.096 --> 00:23:21.957
So I tend to rely on people sort of letting me know, and then it's how do you share that information out?
00:23:21.957 --> 00:23:28.221
But I think, maybe I think you're right I think there could be more of a a joint, more of a systematic way of doing it.
00:23:28.280 --> 00:23:35.339
So that we can make sure, because I'm sure, if you know some of the people using ketamine recreationally, if you said, actually, do you know, you could end up with a stoma bag.
00:23:35.339 --> 00:23:37.824
That would probably put them off taking it.
00:23:37.824 --> 00:23:39.673
You know, and I, but they need to be.
00:23:39.673 --> 00:23:45.315
People need to be aware of the risks and I'm not sure they are yet yeah, no, I completely agree with that.
00:23:45.335 --> 00:23:53.498
It is about getting another space, and obviously with us, as, as this drug and alcohol treatment service, we primarily work with, or we do work with, people that are over 18.
00:23:53.498 --> 00:24:09.412
So yeah, we are making improvements in our 18 to 25 year old pathway and, of course, the pathways between refresh, which is the local young people service, but again, it's almost like you feel like you're racing against the clock a little bit, because you just don't have the time really to try and get this under control.
00:24:09.432 --> 00:24:10.054
That's the thing.
00:24:10.054 --> 00:24:11.979
I think that's exactly it as well.
00:24:11.979 --> 00:24:13.261
I mean, everybody's doing.
00:24:13.261 --> 00:24:15.458
You know the colleges are doing their day job.
00:24:15.458 --> 00:24:17.096
You guys are doing your work.
00:24:17.096 --> 00:24:18.211
You know everyone's.
00:24:18.211 --> 00:24:31.980
It's difficult, isn't it, to make it a priority, but I think my feeling is if I went back and said to my daughter do you know that people who use ketamine could end up with?
00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:33.143
She'd be like what.
00:24:33.790 --> 00:24:47.380
I bet there isn't, I bet there isn't, I bet there isn't that knowledge I think there's a campaign that someone mentioned recently called a bag for life, which I really liked the title because we all know what a bag for life means but, it's a play on that and I suppose it is sharing those stories.
00:24:47.380 --> 00:24:53.619
But again, I mean, this is a campaign I've mentioned twice already and I don't think I've ever without going and looking for it.
00:24:53.660 --> 00:25:02.430
I don't think I've ever seen it pop up anywhere so I don't think you know, more awareness could be made around it, because again, I think it just the title of it I think sounds like a great campaign.
00:25:03.153 --> 00:25:10.494
How it looks in practice I suppose is another thing, um, I suppose we would you know, obviously, for us on this, this series, we talk a lot about stigma.
00:25:10.494 --> 00:25:14.423
I guess, in your view, how do we move the conversation forward?
00:25:14.423 --> 00:25:25.316
So it's less about um punishment and it's more about support and healing, because I do think I mean you mentioned about it moving from a class c to a class b drug.
00:25:25.316 --> 00:25:30.862
For me, all that system is is well, if you found in possession of it, you get a harsher sentence.
00:25:31.503 --> 00:25:39.592
I don't think that's necessarily going to do anything in some way you know I get there's more to it than that, of course, but yeah, I suppose how do we move it from that to?
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