Oct. 1, 2025

Mel Barrett: Triplets, Trauma & Transformation - Finding Fellowship, Pub Culture, Cocaine & Non-Linear Recovery

Mel Barrett: Triplets, Trauma & Transformation - Finding Fellowship, Pub Culture, Cocaine & Non-Linear Recovery
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Mel Barrett: Triplets, Trauma & Transformation - Finding Fellowship, Pub Culture, Cocaine & Non-Linear Recovery
Mel Barrett: Triplets, Trauma & Transformation - Finding Fellowship, Pub Culture, Cocaine & Non-Linear Recovery
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Season 1

Mel shares her powerful journey from growing up as a triplet in a family where drinking was the norm, to finding recovery through boxing, community, and addressing her mental health. She opens up about identity struggles, belonging in pub culture, escalating substance use in Brighton, dangerous encounters with dealers, and the moment of clarity in Spain that changed everything.

From cannabis use after quitting alcohol to finding strength in 12-step fellowships, boxing, and medication, Mel’s story highlights the non-linear path of recovery and the importance of building your own sobriety toolbox.

Click here to text our host, Matt, directly!

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🔗 Then share this episode with someone you know who could benefit from it.

Browse the full archive at 👉 www.believeinpeoplepodcast.com

This is a toolkit for recovery & resilience. Whether you’re in recovery or seeking to understand addiction, there’s something here for everyone.

📩 Contact: robbie@believeinpeoplepodcast.com
🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” by Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)

🔗 Listen & Subscribe
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/4Cr4wzZ6bxku1cRcoYKbGK
Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/believe-in-people/id1617239923

🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
🎛️ Producer: Robbie Lawson
🏢 Network: ReNew

00:00 - Welcome & Episode Setup

00:58 - Childhood, Triplets & Drinking Culture

06:00 - Identity, Queerness & Belonging

10:47 - Pub Life, Community & Early Alcohol Habits

16:20 - Cocaine, Brighton Nightlife & Escalation

23:45 - Consequences, Dealers & Transactional Lines

30:00 - The Spain Realisation & Quitting Alcohol

36:20 - 12-Step Entry, Sobriety & Weed Substitution

42:00 - Losing Love, Moving to London & Serious Recovery

48:30 - Mental Health, Medication & Recovery Boxing

54:00 - Routines, Structure & Sustainable Change

01:00:10 - Advice, Resources & Closing Q&A

01:07:36 - Farewell & Calls to Subscribe

WEBVTT

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This is a renewed original recording.

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Hello and welcome to Believe in People, a two-time Radio Academy Award-nominated and British podcast award-winning series about all things addiction, recovery, and stigma.

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My name is Matthew Butler, and I am your host, as I say, your facilitator.

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In this episode, Meljo is a conversation, a bold and reflexive voice in recovery who strongly weaves from feelings of identity, loving, and personal transformation.

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Raised in a large familieship like contradiction.

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Early life later on for a complex relationship with alcohol and connection.

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What began as a cultural and became something of a deal.

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As the search for meaning and community movement to help spaces.

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The journey touches on addiction, resilience, and what it means to rebuild not just habits, but an entire sense of self.

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From nightlife to new clarity, from corrupting strategies to conscious change, Mel's experience is a reminder that healing rarely follows a straight line, and that recovery is about more than just sobriety.

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The conversation begins in childhood, where the roots of later choices were fair sun, and the tension between love and unpredictability, culture and escape.

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Well, I guess a really big part of my childhood is that I am a triplet.

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Oh wow.

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Yeah.

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There's three of you.

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There's three of me.

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So there's two girls and a boy.

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Okay.

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And then I've also got two other half sisters and a half brother.

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Wow.

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So it's a big family.

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Yeah.

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So what comes with a big family is well, what came with mine was a huge kind of drinking culture.

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Okay.

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So as far back as I can remember.

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I could probably m like the millennium is probably the biggest party I remember.

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So I was probably about four.

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And the house that we were celebrating in with my parents and my siblings and my cousins and like 5,000 people that were there.

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They had a bar downstairs in their house.

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And I remember being like, oh my god, that's the coolest thing in the world.

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Like I was four, but I was like, this is where the adults go.

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This is where they go to have fun.

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And yeah, I mean, my family, it's kind of how we celebrated.

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Everything was to do with drinking, getting together.

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It's just how we bonded, really.

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I know I can relate to that to be fair, because I would have been, God, I would have been about eight and nine, I think, at the time of the millennium.

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But I still remember how big of a deal that was.

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And I can still remember a lot of my old family parties and and the culture of drinking.

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I remember the first time that I I had a beer, and I must have been, based on where I lived, I must have been about I don't know, maybe six years old.

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And it was a little green stubby bottle of what I imagined was stellar artois.

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And yeah, just the obviously the taste of it was like it was kind of one of those things with my dad, it was go on then, try a bit sort of thing.

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Which now seems ridiculous, but back then I think that was quite normal.

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Or like handed baby sham.

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Yeah.

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There was that like tiny little it had like a reindeer on or something.

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But that had alcohol in it though.

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Yeah, I do know.

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Well, I f I I think I remember my first shandy and thinking I was drinking a proper pint as a kid, thinking I was Billy Big Bollocks with this little little glass of shandy or something like that.

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Pretending to be drunk.

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Yeah, pretending to be drunk, yeah.

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Do you know what we can do?

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Probably Apple Jews looking back at it or something like that.

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But no, I can remember my first shandy, and I remember that sort of culture within my own family.

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And I think being of a a similar age to yourself, you know, we're probably gonna have some shared experiences in terms of those cultural and and and generational things that we may have experienced in our family.

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So but coming from a big family, I mean you said triplets then.

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I I could feel my heart being a little bit.

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I've got one, I've got one daughter, and I think for me that's enough.

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So just imagine what your family what it was like for your mum.

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Like, how would you have coped with three of you?

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Well, my mum found out that she was having triplets on April the 1st.

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So she thought there was one in her rope.

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Well, she texted my dad and was like, you need to come home now.

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There's three babies, and he was like, Don't be silly.

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And yeah, sure enough.

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Three heartbeats.

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Honestly, I think they can say triplets and twins can be common with IVF babies, but for that to happen naturally, natural, yeah.

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That's that's insane then.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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So talk to me about how that being in that big family, did that influence obviously talk about the family environment.

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I imagine, and again, do you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think having one daughter, I can focus 100% of my love and attention on that one daughter.

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I imagine coming from a big family, as a parent, you're still giving 100%.

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But if there's four kids, for instance, they're only getting maybe 25% each of that love and that attention in it if that makes sense.

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What was that like for you growing up?

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Did you feel kind of lost in the shuffle a little bit?

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I didn't like my mum was amazing, making sure that we all knew equally that we were loved and we were cared for, and you know, she did every effort to make us feel heard and understood.

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But growing up, I wouldn't have had an idea of parenting.

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So for me, growing up, it was three people going through the exact same experience at the same time with no hierarchy.

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So it was just us three triplets.

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My eldest brother, he left for uni when we were like three or four.

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Okay, so it was just the triplets kind of at home.

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And because there wasn't a hierarchy, it was strange to know what your place in the family was, and that feeling of feeling quite othered was there because as much as we have this triplet bond, we are all so incredibly different.

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And what is really interesting now is that we are all sober.

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Okay, which we it's just crazy to think from like I said, so many family parties, alcohol was always around.

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And now we've each got to a point where I've been in recovery for three years, my brother's three years, and my triplet sister, she is uh coming up to four months.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Oh, that's interesting.

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Because I you I mean you talk about your your mother there so so so fondly, no obvious neglect as a child, which can sometimes result in shrinking and that you know subjective trauma that that we often explore in this podcast.

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But for all three of you to have problems with alcohol, was that correct, as the as the main substance?

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Other than being around it as a as a you know as a child and and and growing up as a as a teenager, I imagine, what do you think has had caused that alcohol?

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Was it addiction?

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Yeah, for for me it was addiction.

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I mean, as I talk about my mum fondly, and I I mean my dad was also there with my mum.

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But because it was a very busy household, it was incredibly overstimulating, there was always so many things happening, so many emotions.

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I mean, my dad wasn't in the house as much as my mum was at all.

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He was always off working, earning money for the family, and he was incredibly stressed all the time.

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So when he came home, he had a lot of anger.

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He has a military background, so he liked to run the house almost like on military time, and you know, I'm your father, I must be respected.

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And if you do not respect me, then that's your cut.

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Yeah.

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So we had my mum who was incredibly loving, supportive.

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My dad is also all of those things, but in a very different way.

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Very different way, and probably not as in touch with his emotions or able to give that he wasn't really able to give us that space.

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And I think because it was the two different parenting styles, it became very chaotic right until kind of leaving home and going to university.

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So when I did start going out, when I turned 17, 18, I started drinking and it was, you know, it was like so much fun.

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It was a break from all the chaos at home, all the film different family dynamics.

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And I was like, Oh, I've solved all my problems.

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I know what that this is it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's interesting because I think as well, when you when you talk about your dad being aware, consistency in in a family environment is something that I've you know looked at, and you know, again, we're with you know, having my own child now is how can we create the best environment?

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And consistency is such a big thing in terms of our boundaries and the barriers that we give as parents as well.

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And imagine if your dad's working away and then coming home, there isn't that consistency there.

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How life is with just your mum there and then your dad coming home, the environment is kind of being flipped upside down.

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And I think that in itself will create naturally just a really stressful place to deliver.

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Yeah, confuse me.

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It was very confusing.

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And I've always been the type of person to ask a lot of questions, and if someone tells me to do something and I go, why?

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And they go, Because that's that's the way it is, that doesn't register in my brain.

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I'm like, okay, well, that's not a logical reason for me.

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How can I just I couldn't have acceptance around that growing up?

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Yeah, I get that.

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I don't like it even in uh my working environment.

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If I ask something from say a manager here, no.

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Well, why?

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Just because that doesn't work for me.

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I'm happy for people to say no, but I need to know why.

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I need logic behind decisions.

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This idea of if someone had just said because I'm the boss, that's why, like that wouldn't work for me.

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And I think, do you know, that's why I have thrived in this environment in comparison to other working environments, because I need explanations, and I think you probably are very much the same in that sense as well.

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But to hit 18 and then experience that almost like this sweet release of do you know the euphoria that you know alcohol would bring.

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Well, you 18 is probably optimistic, I imagine everything.

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Yeah, it was it would have been much, much younger.

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But to be going out into, I imagine, into nightclubs, club scenes, was that a something of 18 onwards?

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It well, when I was 18, I got a pub job.

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Oh.

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And I absolutely loved it.

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I was suddenly, I don't know, it sounds so cringy, but like almost on stage.

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Yeah.

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Like I all these people around me was getting drunk, we were chatting with them, pe you know, it was kind of like being in a community of misfits, and suddenly I felt like I fitted in, was always getting in trouble at home, yeah, wasn't I wasn't doing things right, my room was always messy.

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I remember turning 16 and my dad like bringing army papers home for all of us to sign.

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And I was like, Why do you want me to go into the army?

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And he's like, I think it will make you a bit more tidy.

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And I was like, it's just it's not gonna happen.

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I was like, I'm going to study art, Dad.

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That's it.

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So drinking in a pub and being surrounded by what felt creative people or people who didn't go through the like life on a ladder, like took different paths.

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I've found more that those were the people that I connected with more.

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I I I think something that I've heard said before is about finding your tribe.

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And I I can relate to that in terms of just finding people that you enjoy spending time with, like-minded people, and I think there's almost like a real penny drop moment when you find that because for a lot of our lives we're in forced environments.

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We go to school where we're around you know, people our same age, but we have nothing in common with.

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And I completely understand that once you hit a certain age, it's found in friends that kind of almost can become your family in some way.

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But it wasn't friends that were my own age.

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Yeah.

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These were people who'd been drinking in pubs for years and years and years.

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And I was 18, thought I was so grown up, and suddenly I was drinking with these people who were so much older than me, getting involved in their lives, sort of getting into a bit of drama with them.

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But I loved it because it felt like I was living and it felt like I had moved on.

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And yeah, I don't know.

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I guess You you said about being on stage as well and being at a triplet.

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I imagine that again, correct me if I'm wrong, but do you know when you see twins that that dress the same?

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Yeah, it's almost like they don't have their own identity, they're not their own, they they come as one.

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And I imagine in this in some sense with a triplet, whether whether you're dressing the same, you're almost always going to be compared to each other in some way.

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Yeah, you almost come as a whole package.

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Do you think that was part of it?

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Is you know, maybe found in like breaking away from from that environment and as you said, being on stage, finally being seen as an individual and not as a as a triple.

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Yeah, I definitely wanted to fire my own feet, but it was like a running joke ever since I was probably about three or four, and I learned to dress myself.

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I would dress myself so differently to my brother and sister, and I mean I grew up in the Cotswolds, and you know, there's not much really in the Cotswolds, there's not much diversity there.

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And you know, stomping around in my Dot Martin's in the village, people would say to my parents, Have you seen Mel?

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Why is she why is she stomping around in in Dot Martin's?

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What's happening with her?

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And I kind of started living up to this part of the fact that I was different and people did speak about me and the fact that I wasn't doing things in a in a normal way and I was kind of desperate to prove that I was bigger than where where I lived.

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I wasn't I wasn't gonna fit in with everyone else.

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And so when I found like the pub scene and all these other people who kind of felt the same, I really connected with them.

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How much did identity play in addiction?

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Because you talked then about dressing, I don't know, how would you describe it?

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I guess now I would uh describe trying to find my like queer identity.

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Yeah.

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But I was still figuring out, I I mean I didn't figure out I was queer until I was 16, 17.

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So the years prior to that I was experimenting with different styles and trying to find what suits what I felt suited me and my own identity.

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But then as when I realized I was queer, I was like, okay, it all kind of makes sense now.

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It helped kind of add a bit of a label and an identity to it.

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Yeah.

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Tell me about your brother and your sister then.

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What's their identities like?

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They're both straight.

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Yeah.

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One of them has two children.

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Okay.

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And a long-term partner, and the other one, she's straight in a relationship.

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I feel like you've got sort of obviously with triplets, you've got a boy this side, a girl this side, and then your identity kind of feels like it's in a mix between the two.

00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:13.759
Yeah.

00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:14.799
Would you agree with that?

00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:15.360
Yeah.

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And definitely kind of in the middle.

00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:33.120
Because obviously you don't present as being girly girl, and then but funny enough, speaking to Peter, your colleague on the uh mentoring project, he was saying sometimes you can present more feminine and sometimes present more masculine.

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Would you agree with that?

00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:34.559
Yeah.

00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:35.679
Talk to me through that.

00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:42.000
The sort of the the changes in identity as far as like clothing and and the and the way you present yourself to the world.

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I mean, some days I wake up and I want to be androgynous, but again, androgyny doesn't fit in with the bracket or mask or feminine.

00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:52.320
It can be both.

00:16:53.039 --> 00:17:00.639
So within the androgyny umbrella, I I den I present as femme or I present as mask.

00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:09.599
People like it's a when we log in on the morning call and my little window pops up, people are like, Oh, who have you come this today?

00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:11.920
Your hair looks so different today.

00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:13.440
Oh, you've got makeup on today.

00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:14.160
Oh, you haven't.

00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:15.440
Is your hair short?

00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:16.720
But now it looks really long.

00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:19.839
So it's I'm just constantly changing.

00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:23.680
I just I don't like to be kind of put into a bracket.

00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:24.000
Yeah.

00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:25.920
Why do you why is that then?

00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:29.839
I guess I just feel quite fluid.

00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:36.319
But that's such a beautiful space to be in.

00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:48.400
I think I worried for so long who I was meant to be, what I was meant to look like, how I was meant to feel, how should I present for other people?

00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:52.720
But now it's how do I want to present for myself?

00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:58.160
Did identity and sexuality play into alcohol dependency?

00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:06.400
You talked about obviously finding that out about yourself when you were 16 in that experimental phase.

00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:08.079
Is this like who am I?

00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:14.880
This is stressful, I'm not presenting like you know, people in my peer group or people in my age group, I feel different to them.

00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:28.319
And I think I mean those informative years, anyway, as a teenager, can be really difficult anywhere, regardless of that added, I suppose, pressure, almost like an inner turmoil, like what is going on.

00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:33.200
I imagine that would have been quite stressful in some way.

00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:36.640
It was constantly trying to be like a chameleon.

00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:37.119
Yeah.

00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:40.559
And fitting into your environment and your peer group, yeah.

00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:41.039
Yeah.

00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:43.839
Sort of testing out different peer groups.

00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.720
Who did I connect with, who did I fit in with.

00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:48.160
Yeah.

00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:54.319
Going into obviously moving into the the you know, as you said, the working in pubs.

00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:10.799
Tell me how your relationship with alcohol changed It changed in a way that it was it turned into an everyday habit very quickly.

00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:21.200
And even when I would have days off from the pub, I would go into the pub and I would drink and I would stay there, lock-ins.

00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:27.119
And it it did feel really fun.

00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:38.640
It felt like this it was what I was put on the earth to do, basically, to drink and chat shit and smoke a thousand cigarettes.

00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:45.519
And but you know, it it caused a lot of consequences.

00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:57.519
Um I have used to, not so much now, have a very bad habit of getting myself involved in other people's business like quite a lot.

00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:11.920
And I think there was a fine line between standing up for what you believe in and then letting people get on with their own thing, and just it's it's nothing to do with me.

00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:12.799
Yeah.

00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:21.839
Do you think that's partly, you know, again, growing up in in a busy household with your siblings and everyone being so close together?

00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:34.160
Do you think that's almost like a natural part of your upbringing is to be involved in all this other stuff because you come from quite a chaotic and busy environment where you are naturally getting involved in other stuff because there's so many people under the same roof?

00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:35.200
I think so.

00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:39.359
I mean, I I really struggled growing up in the household that I did.

00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:42.559
I had I I had a very, very lucky upbringing.

00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:47.839
But in terms of kind of how it was emotionally, I really, really struggled with it.

00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:55.359
And my family is very much like you have to keep it in the family.

00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:59.920
Don't talk to anyone else outside of the family about it.

00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:09.759
So I didn't really feel like I could go to anyone to speak about how I felt growing up.

00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:20.319
So when I started connecting with others and drinking in the pub, everyone was sharing stories and kind of traumatic things that had happened to them.

00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:25.599
And I found that it was a way of connecting to them.

00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:37.200
Yeah, if you've had to keep a lot of stuff that's gone on in your own family to yourself all that time and now find yourself in a position where it's okay to share, I can understand that.

00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:40.880
And it's healthy to share, it's healthy to talk about obviously things that's going on.

00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.440
Can you give me an example of what made living where you lived quite difficult for you?

00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:49.039
Obviously, you talked about your dad and the military background and the structure.

00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:54.319
But can you give an example of what made it so maybe so difficult?

00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:01.359
Oh, that's a really hard question.

00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:05.680
You said you had to keep everything to yourself now.

00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:09.039
Now is a chance if you you want to talk about that stuff, here we are.

00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:10.559
I'm trying to think.

00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:15.359
I don't know.

00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:20.319
I just I felt like I was always, always in trouble.

00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:20.960
Yeah.

00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:22.240
All the time.

00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:28.000
I couldn't do anything right or it wasn't perfect enough.

00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:40.319
And like you said, the comparisons, it was always like being compared to my brother and sister constantly, and I felt like I didn't have my own voice at all.

00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:40.880
Yeah.

00:22:41.200 --> 00:23:08.880
But I was sort of celebrated as the black sheep of the family, and that was a part that I kind of lived up to both in the household and when I left, I was, you know, I wanted to be that person that was kind of a bit chaotic, bit of a loud mouth, causing a bit of trouble, but it didn't do me any favours.

00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:09.599
Yeah, yeah.

00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:21.039
Like so obviously getting involved in other people's drama then you know under the influence of alcohol, because obviously we're not we're not the same how we when we're under the influence of substances, we'll act in ways the way we wouldn't normally act.

00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:24.960
We say things we wouldn't normally say, we do things we wouldn't normally do.

00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:31.440
Tell me a little bit about how that became a consequence with your drinking.

00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:36.319
Drama, drama, drama.

00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:54.319
I guess it became a consequence when I started losing friendships or uh people would tell me stuff and you know, don't pass this on, don't tell people as soon as I got a bottle of red wine down my neck, you know.

00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:55.680
You'll never guess what.

00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:57.359
Do you want to know a secret?

00:23:58.319 --> 00:23:58.880
I love it.

00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:00.160
Do you want to know a secret?

00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:00.640
Yeah.

00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:01.359
I get that.

00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:02.640
Do you want me to tell you something?

00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:02.880
Yeah.

00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:06.640
But don't tell anyone knowing full well that it's probably gonna get too much.

00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:07.680
Don't say it came from me.

00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:13.759
Yeah, it wasn't me who said it, but and you know, you've known as the person who loves to gossip.

00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:17.039
But then after that, nobody tells you anything, do they?

00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:17.359
No.

00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:20.240
But don't t don't tell me anything now.

00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:23.839
It's just it's a character defect of mine.

00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:30.799
But like, but drinking and drugging really brought that out like tenfold.

00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:35.359
So with drugs then, was that something that kind of came hand in hand?

00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.079
Alcohol, cooking?

00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:40.400
What was it that you was do you was taking?

00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:49.839
So when I was twenty one, so I finished working in the pub when I was about 19-20.

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:57.920
Then I moved to Holland for a few months, but I moved to the place in Holland, which is the only place where you can't smoke weed.

00:24:58.079 --> 00:24:58.400
Oh really?

00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:00.079
Because it's where the king of Holland lives.

00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:00.720
Oh, okay.

00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:03.039
And it's like a rule that you can't smoke weed there.

00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:03.519
Interesting.

00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:05.359
Obviously, everyone does, it's like here.

00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:06.079
Yeah.

00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:16.799
So I started smoking quite a lot of weed when I worked there, and I had a choice whether to stay in Holland or go to uni.

00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:21.599
And I went to I chose to go to uni, went to a uni in Brighton.

00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:25.759
Only chose Brighton because I was like, this is where I get to be gay.

00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:26.079
Yeah.

00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:27.599
This is where I know where the gays are.

00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.839
The gay capital of the UK, Brighton.

00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:31.359
My people are here.

00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:32.960
Like, I'm coming home.

00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:33.839
Yeah.

00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:36.319
Never been there before, but I'm coming home.

00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:37.200
Yeah, I get that.

00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:53.839
But what comes with Brighton, and I think it's similar for a lot of people who move there when you're young, is that you're welcome with like a whole tray of drugs and drink, and suddenly this world of partying opens up.

00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:59.119
And started taking a lot of coke.

00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.759
And it was kind of similar with alcohol.

00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:12.480
It became doing it once to in about a month, two months, becoming like a three, four-day habit.

00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:16.720
I couldn't have a drink without ordering a bag of coke.

00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:22.000
And it got progressively worse and worse and worse.

00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:27.279
To the point I remember saying to my friends, I was like, it's not strong enough.

00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:28.240
It's not working.

00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:29.599
And they were, Mel, what do you want?

00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:30.160
Crack.

00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:31.599
And I was like, I don't know.

00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:33.440
It's just not strong enough for me.

00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:37.359
Like I either wanted oblivion or I didn't want it.

00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:49.279
Because obviously the the I guess obviously again educate me on this, but with cocaine, like I could I I could take a small amount of cocaine now and get a really nice high.

00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:55.599
But I would to to chase that high with because of the consistency of use, you have to keep taking more and more and more.

00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:56.319
Is that correct?

00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:56.960
Yeah.

00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:01.920
What was it like the first time you took cocaine and what did you like about it?

00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:09.519
I think cocaine's quite a weird drug because it's it's subtle, but it hooks you.

00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:19.680
And I felt like my ego got a bit bigger, every conversation felt a bit more interesting.

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:26.000
Again, I think it's the feeling that I had when the pubs, I felt like I was a bit of like a misfit.

00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:30.640
And we were kind of all in it together, sharing a bag.

00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:40.000
It's a very like communal sort of activity, and it's something you probably know that you shouldn't be doing, but you're gonna do it anyway because it's fun.

00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:40.799
Yeah.

00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:54.640
And I I really like that, and it was alright for for a couple of years until the usage it just got too much, and my mental health started really suffering.

00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:58.240
How does cocaine affect your mental health?

00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:00.720
It's the come downs the day after.

00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:04.799
The last time I did it.

00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:08.799
Have you read Millie Gooch's Sober Girl Society book?

00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:10.319
I've got it on my shelf up there.

00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:13.359
So the last line I did of cocaine was on that book.

00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:13.920
Okay.

00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:16.960
Be sure to tell her.

00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:20.240
I love the irony of that.

00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:21.680
I know.

00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:22.319
I know.

00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:24.079
That's amazing.

00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:24.720
I know.

00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:25.359
Yeah.

00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:26.480
And I stopped drinking.

00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:27.359
No, I hadn't stopped drinking.

00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:28.559
You've got to tell me more about that, then.

00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:30.160
Obviously, go into that a little bit more.

00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:32.000
So the last line of cocaine you ever did was on.

00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.759
Was you trying to get sober at the time?

00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:36.640
Was you using this book as a bit of a inspiration for that?

00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:44.480
Yeah, so I I think so when I was 24, my mental health had gotten so bad.

00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:51.680
Drinking had and doing drugs had c has started to cause me a load of different consequences.

00:28:52.640 --> 00:29:08.160
I only sleeping with people if I knew they had drugs, meeting with in really inappropriate people, drug dealers, getting into their car, doing favours for drugs.

00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:18.559
And all these different consequences started kind of coming my way, and my mental health really started to dip.

00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:27.039
But I hadn't kind of worked out yet that I needed to stop all those things in order to make it better.

00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:32.720
But I'd started thinking, okay, there must be a different way of doing things.

00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:37.039
I can't keep going into oblivion day after day.

00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:43.920
I mean, the only time I didn't use or I didn't drink is if I physically couldn't.

00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:48.640
And during uni, sorry, I feel like I'm jumping around.

00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:50.079
No, no, no, but it's fine, nice.

00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:52.160
It's making sense to me, so don't worry about it.

00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:59.839
During uni, I would drink and drink and drink, and we'd go on family holidays, and I'd be like, yes.

00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:03.519
Thank God I don't have to drink for a week, a couple of weeks.

00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:05.680
So we'd go on these family holidays.

00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:12.640
Day two, I'd be being sick, I'd be sweating, I would be so ill and I wouldn't know what was happening.

00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:16.880
But it was because I was with withdrawal from drugs and alcohol.

00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:17.359
Yeah.

00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:20.079
But I I didn't I didn't know.

00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:23.839
And my family would say, What is wrong with you?

00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:27.920
Every time you come on holiday, you're ill and why aren't you drinking?

00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:30.880
You drink with all your friends in uni, why aren't you drinking with us?

00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:34.960
But it was because I couldn't, I couldn't do it.

00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:39.920
Being in Brighton was like being in a pub treadmill.

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:41.680
Like I could not get off it.

00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:47.759
I couldn't get off it and I I didn't know how to, and I didn't know anything else.

00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.039
Because that was how I moved into the city.

00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:51.759
Of course.

00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:56.559
And it it's do you know it is an expensive habit to have, isn't it, cocaine?

00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:10.559
Like I know people who have racked up thousands, thousands in debt because of cocaine use, and you said then about obviously having to do certain things to fund that that habit and that addiction.

00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:14.880
Can you delve into that a little bit more about what that was really like?

00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:24.480
And and I mean I think with alcohol being pretty consistent in the sense of you can just go to the shop and buy drug use, you have to know someone.

00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:37.119
And because of the I guess the the substance itself, as you said, shady people, it's not necessarily you're not necessarily meeting a very honest person to know who's gonna be dealing with with cocaine.

00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:42.000
Just delve into that a little bit more about what that was like on a day-to-day basis.

00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:56.319
So through a few of my friends who I used to use with, they started using this drug dealer, and he was he had a lot of I don't know what people call him.

00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:59.599
Not teams, what do people know I don't know.

00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:01.440
Stooges people.

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:02.319
Runners?

00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:04.160
Runners, fair enough, yeah.

00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:05.200
There we go.

00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:12.480
He had a lot of runners, he was basically running a big drugs operation in London and Brighton.

00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:24.880
And he we got in I got into the car with him one day, and because he was kind of such a big drug dealer, I was kind of impressed.

00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:31.680
Yeah, it was like being on a film, like it was so far from my little tiny life in the cotswolds.

00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:36.240
I was just like, oh my god, I'm I feel like I'm on a film set.

00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:44.400
And you know, I was really impressed, and I was really enamoured, and he kind of took a shining to me.

00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:50.799
And I would meet up with him, jump in his car.

00:32:51.279 --> 00:33:06.319
If I wanted more drugs than I paid for, I would give him like sexual favours, but it was in so much madness that I didn't really see anything wrong with it.

00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.960
And it was almost like another story to go home and tell my friends.

00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:23.279
And it I kind of I don't know, everything, every time I went out and used or got drunk, there'd be something that would happen.

00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:29.039
And I'd go back to my friends, and I it would be like me showing off and being like, guess what happened today?

00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:50.640
And just reeling off all these painful, well, now painful stories of pe sleeping with people, you know, men that I definitely didn't want to sleep with, waking up next to people who I had no idea what their name was, getting breaking up people's relationships, getting into fights.

00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:52.880
It was just carnage.

00:33:53.200 --> 00:34:01.200
I was gonna say, because obviously you I think we can look back at previous stages of our life and romanticize it as being something glamorous.

00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:11.119
I think the interesting thing there is you can see it for what it actually was, and obviously it sounds like um again, you you've seen the reality of what that situation was.

00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:22.079
Yes, at the time you saw this person as you know some sort of big shot and it it was impressive, but I guess now you're gonna look at back of that in a completely different lens and be like, what the fuck was that about?

00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:22.639
Yeah.

00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:26.480
And how did that play into your sexuality as well?

00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:35.280
Because I mean, I educate me on this one because with the LGBTQ plus community, there's lesbian, gay, bi, trans, queer.

00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:39.199
What what's the difference with queer and being bisexual?

00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:41.679
So queer is like an umbrella term.

00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:42.159
Okay.

00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:45.519
Bisexual more focuses on the two genders.

00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:46.000
Okay.

00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:49.599
Pansexual is kind of anyone.

00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:50.079
Okay.

00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:59.360
Because obviously with you going with like how did that feel being with like a man as opposed to a woman and all this sort of stuff in in that time period?

00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:02.079
Or wasn't I don't know, I'm trying to phrase it.

00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:08.000
It was almost like I had a a job to do, I had a I had a habit to feed.

00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:08.880
Yeah.

00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:14.320
And it was it was like switching off.

00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:18.639
It was, you know, it was transactional.

00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:19.039
Yeah.

00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:19.519
I guess.

00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:22.159
And that's That's kind of what I was trying to get at really.

00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.159
Was it just purely transactional?

00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:27.199
I'll do this, you give me that, and and that's kind of how you was living.

00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:45.679
And I think when people are in their madness and the that sort of chaotic state, you use people to you like you will step over people if if they've got a bag of cocaine at the end of the room, it doesn't matter who you're stepping on because all you're focused on is getting your next fix.

00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:56.000
What would you say throughout this point, the worst moment was the the the rock bottom moment in which you wanted to make some changes?

00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:01.840
Because the person that you're describing there is far from the person that is sat here in this chair today.

00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:06.719
Talk to me about the worst situation you found yourself in.

00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:11.119
And was that something that provokes change within yourself?

00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:13.119
I've got two rock bottoms.

00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:14.000
Yeah.

00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:19.840
So uh I'm now three just over three years clean from alcohol.

00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:22.079
So Congratulations.

00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:23.119
Thank you.

00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:27.599
If we go back to the Millie Gooch story.

00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:28.079
Yeah.

00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:32.320
Yeah, I want to delve into that a bit more because that is that is insane, but gone.

00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:36.400
I think it was New Year's Eve 2022.

00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.480
I think that was when I did my last line of cocaine.

00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:41.199
Okay.

00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.599
And we were all out celebrating.

00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:48.880
I just got into a new relationship.

00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:57.599
Prior to that, I'd kind of been researching like how to change my habits with alcohol.

00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:05.679
I wasn't ready to give up, but something had to give because I was losing job, I was losing friends, all these consequences were happening.

00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:12.000
And I was like, I either I either need to sort it out or I don't know what's gonna happen.

00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:19.840
So I'd start, I'd read that book, The Joy of Being Sober, Briny Gordon's Glorious Rock Bottom.

00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.559
I'd started listening to loads of podcasts over the influence.

00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:26.079
What else is there?

00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:27.280
I can't remember.

00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:29.519
But you knew you wanted to make changes, yeah.

00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:30.159
Yeah.

00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:36.719
But I was still drinking and drinking, so there was kind of two things happening.

00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:45.119
And then I met someone, and on our very first date, we were like, Oh, we both want to be sober.

00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:47.280
Oh yeah, I know I want to be sober too.

00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:56.239
I spent the next six months every day getting blackout, doing as many drugs as we could, drinking as much as we can.

00:37:56.480 --> 00:38:00.800
And we want to get sober, but first, let's just get it all out of our system.

00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:05.440
One last six month bender, you know, just a little.

00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:18.000
And so I remember we went to Spain and we'd gone out to this nightclub, and it was very seedy.

00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:30.880
It was everyone was smoking inside, there was prostitutes in there, mm these kind of slimy men, had a lot of drugs, kept inviting those back to their house.

00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:36.000
I think we took took some Mandy and What's Mandy?

00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:37.119
MDMA.

00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:37.920
Ah nice.

00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:38.400
Yeah.

00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:40.000
Just never heard that term before.

00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:40.320
Really?

00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:41.599
Never heard Mandy before, no.

00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:42.159
What?

00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:42.960
Just never heard of.

00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:43.519
MD?

00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:44.480
Yeah, MD.

00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:57.840
And yeah, we so we were out clubbing, and then we got back to my then partner's sister's house in Spain, and they carried on drinking.

00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:01.920
They was remember them swigging out of this like bottle of prosecco.

00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:06.079
I was chain smoking a massive spliff.

00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:17.679
And then all of a sudden, I think it was like three, four in the morning, I had this whole moment of like complete stillness.

00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:28.639
And I looked around the room, I saw the drugs, I saw all the bottles, and I looked at my partner, this person who I like loved so much.

00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:33.360
I and I didn't recognize them because they looked so fucked.

00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:39.840
And I was like, this I can't continue this.

00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:54.639
There was something in my brain that that moment something switched, and I was like, if I fly back home tomorrow and I carry on this behavior, if I carry on drinking, I will never stop.

00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:59.440
And I haven't drank since that moment.

00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:00.159
Really?

00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:00.639
Yeah.

00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:03.360
That really is the light bulb switch, isn't it?

00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:03.840
Then yeah.

00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:08.480
It was like complete clarity came over my brain.

00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:12.159
This spiritual moment, and that was it.

00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:14.239
And how did that affect the relationship?

00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:17.280
Because you said your partner was still clearly very fucked up at this time.

00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:17.760
Yeah.

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:18.880
What happened then?

00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:24.079
Well, the next day we actually missed our flight home because my partner was so hungover.

00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:29.840
They were they were throwing up all over the place and they were just so ill.

00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:33.679
So we ended up flying back a few days later.

00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:39.199
And I told them, I think I think we'd told each other in the six months.

00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:42.480
This is the last time, we're not gonna do it, not gonna do it.

00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:57.440
But there was something about me being taken out of Brighton, out of that environment, going to Spain, having to return back to that pub treadmill, that I was like, I I've got nothing left to give it, I can't do it anymore.

00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:01.360
So I told them and they were like, okay, that's fine.

00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:11.679
And they carried on drinking for the next couple months, but you know, reduced, and then yeah, they they also stopped.

00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:18.320
But what we what I didn't stop is and them also was drugs.

00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:20.239
Okay, so the alcohol stopped.

00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:21.760
So we stopped alcohol.

00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:25.599
Which arguably some people would think could be the lesser of the two evils.

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:31.199
So you've stopped the alcohol, which most would think do the opposite, drugs than alcohol.

00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:35.920
Yeah, it was alcohol was a lot more it it wrecked a lot more.

00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:41.039
It it stole a lot more time from me than drugs did in the beginning.

00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:42.719
What was that withdrawal process like?

00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:51.519
Obviously being bang at it the way you was, you know, making that decision on that night to I'm gonna stop now, still having a couple days left there in Spain and then coming back to Brighton.

00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:54.079
What was that withdrawal process like for you?

00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:58.480
Because obviously you've you've I mean you got through it, but it wasn't medically assisted.

00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:06.880
I often find it interesting when people just stop, because obviously just stopping alcohol when at that point of dependency can be very dangerous.

00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:10.320
Some people do it, some people like to wean themselves off it.

00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:13.679
There was no it was it couldn't, it was all or nothing.

00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:14.079
Yeah.

00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:26.880
I could not wean myself off it because prior when I was in the madness, I'd have all these rules of I'm gonna have three drinks, no, I'm gonna drink whiskey because I hate it, and maybe that will make me drink less.

00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:32.079
I'm only gonna drink after nine o'clock, you know, and all these things you tried that just didn't work.

00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:34.880
Yeah, it was it was way too much.

00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:38.079
So I knew it had to be all or nothing.

00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:49.519
Someone when I when I got back to Brighton and I told them I'd stopped, they took me to twelve-step meeting.

00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:57.039
And, you know, I'll be forever grateful to that person for doing it because that's really what saved my life.

00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:01.840
What was it like being in a 12-step and a fellowship environment at such a young age?

00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:03.199
Because how old would you have been when you did it?

00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:04.000
25.

00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:12.480
I often found that that environment resonates often with older people than it does with younger people.

00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:21.679
I think young pe younger people struggle with this 12-step ethos, the idea of the higher power, accepting your powerlessness over alcohol.

00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:23.679
Was that a challenge for you at all?

00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:26.719
Like accepting and and kind of listening to that ethos?

00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:40.159
I think my back was so against the wall with the pain of all of the chaos that drinking had brought me that I was willing to try anything.

00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:50.800
And you know, l listening to the similarities in people's stories, that's what connected me to them.

00:43:51.360 --> 00:44:13.440
I think the concept of higher power comes and goes, you can choose it to be anything if you want it to be something, but I didn't really tend to get too caught up in it because what really made me stay and sit in those seats was hearing other people and the community.

00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:14.320
Yeah.

00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:15.199
Yeah.

00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:22.400
But I didn't I didn't take it seriously as I should have.

00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:30.480
I kind of started using it as a like a bit of a a social club and that's because you were still using drugs.

00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:52.159
Still using drugs, still kind of dramatic because I was still in in a lot of pain and you know I didn't I probably used I used to use Mandy, MTMA, probably like once a month, but all my friends were smoking weed, so I was continually smoking weed with them.

00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:57.840
However, the partner who I was with hated me smoking weed.

00:44:58.159 --> 00:44:59.840
Really, really didn't like it.

00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:03.199
So it was it how you acted, the smell of it?

00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:12.079
I think they had had some experience in the past with people smoking weed and they found it really tricky.

00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:23.360
But navigating that conversation was incredibly hard because I was like, well, I'm gonna do what I want to do.

00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:25.679
I'm not drinking, so I'm gonna smoke weed.

00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:27.280
I need something, you know what I mean?

00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:29.039
Yeah, let me have something, yeah.

00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:33.599
And but they they absolutely hated it.

00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:51.039
And I I didn't think it was a problem at the time, but I quickly came to realise, I didn't tell them straight away, I quickly came to realise that I was using it in the exact same way that I would use alcohol.

00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:53.599
That's the interesting thing.

00:45:53.679 --> 00:46:00.639
I've seen so many people kind of drop one habit or dependency and replace it with another.

00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:07.039
And it's often described as that warm hug feeling that you got from one substance, you start to get it from another.

00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:09.920
And then you realise actually the substance isn't the problem.

00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:13.199
There's something But I didn't even feel good on weed.

00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:13.519
No.

00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:20.320
I felt paranoid, I was always so hungry, like having the munchies.

00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:26.800
M I would be having like an anxiety attack in my head, but it So why the continued use then?

00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:29.039
Because it took me away from me.

00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:33.360
Because it took me out of my head, it took me to a different space.

00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:38.239
What didn't you like about you to to want to do that, to get away from yourself?

00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:40.000
What didn't you like about yourself?

00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:43.199
I was very, very depressed.

00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:56.079
I hated my self-image, I was in an existential crisis all the time, I had no direction, I felt so incredibly lost.

00:46:57.039 --> 00:47:05.519
And because my relationship with drugs and alcohol had started falling apart, I felt like I had nothing left.

00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:12.639
And I think it's goes back to that feeling of feeling othered again.

00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:27.360
I'd gone from finding my people and connecting with them through drugs and alcohol to go through a big cycle of it not working for me and me going, okay, well, what's on the who is on the other side of that?

00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:32.800
What people I don't know those people and I don't know who that version of me is yet.

00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:35.840
Was you scared to get to know that version of you in some way?

00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:39.519
Was you trying to avoid learning about that version of you?

00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:41.519
Well, I was terrified.

00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:53.360
I mean, we have this whole preconceived idea that being sober is boring and that life isn't gonna be fun anymore, and why would you why would you want to be that?

00:47:53.679 --> 00:48:03.039
But going through recovery and meeting so many people who are sober, it literally couldn't be more different.

00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:12.159
The people I have in my life today are such huge like support networks for me.

00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:19.920
I have such a community backing me, like the queer community, the sober community, and like both entwined.

00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:21.039
Really well supported.

00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:21.360
Yeah.

00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:25.840
I'm almost envious of people in like the fellowship because I think, God, you've got such a good support network.

00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:28.159
Like if I'm having a tough time, nobody gives a shit.

00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:29.760
Like, who do I talk to?

00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:37.920
But I think it's it's really nice when people are in those communities and they talk about how well supported they are, and I think it's incredible.

00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:41.039
Yeah, I think it's it's you just pick up the phone, get people a text.

00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:43.119
And people are so like honestly, ring me at any time.

00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:46.880
If I tried to ring one of my mates at two o'clock, they'll be like, fuck off, ring me in the morning.

00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:53.119
Do you know like you know, whereas with that community, it can just be any time you need me, I'll be there and I I think it's incredible.

00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:53.440
Yeah.

00:48:53.679 --> 00:48:55.679
You mentioned a second rock bottom.

00:48:56.320 --> 00:48:58.559
What was the turning point then from the drugs?

00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:01.679
You talked about obviously the cannabis use and and the paranoia you experienced.

00:49:01.760 --> 00:49:06.239
Was there anything specific in that moment where you was like, right, I'm coming off the drugs now as well?

00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:11.280
It took losing that relationship.

00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:17.519
So the partner I I mentioned, the one who we got sober together.

00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:24.480
It took losing that relationship for me to be like, okay, drugs are a problem.

00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:28.320
Your behavior is still the same as if you were drinking.

00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:30.880
I was effectively like a dry drunk.

00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:38.960
I'd been to AA here and there, was dropping into meetings, but I wasn't doing any sort of program, I wasn't looking at my behavior.

00:49:40.000 --> 00:50:02.880
And I ended up throughout that relationship being really inappropriate with people who had partners flirting with people when I shouldn't have been not behaving well in that relationship and you know, losing that relationship.

00:50:03.039 --> 00:50:19.280
It was like I lost the love of my life because my behaviour hadn't changed and I couldn't understand if I'd loved I love this person so much why how could I hurt them?

00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:27.119
And it was the same sort of chaotic outcome that was happening when I was drinking.

00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:34.159
So I think I had one one last use of weed.

00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:40.239
I smoked so much weed and I was like, I I'm moving to London.

00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:43.440
I did a mini geographical, I went from Brighton to London.

00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:45.119
How close are them too by the way?

00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:45.840
Very close.

00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:49.760
You're laughing early about my lack of knowledge of the of the southern areas.

00:50:50.159 --> 00:50:51.440
It's like a 45-minute train.

00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:52.639
So not too far.

00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:53.440
It's really not far.

00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:58.480
See, in my mind, they're they're miles away, but yeah, I can that makes that makes more sense.

00:50:58.719 --> 00:51:01.519
Do you find that moving location actually helps them?

00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:02.480
Yeah.

00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:03.039
Yeah.

00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:09.199
Because some people feel like they can often move, but actually they're just taking the problem from one place to another.

00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:12.239
No, but because it was like the Spain thing.

00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:16.639
It was like if I go back to England and carry on, I've got no hope.

00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:22.480
And I thought, if you move to London and you carry on this, you've got no hope.

00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:24.719
And so I had to.

00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:26.719
I moved to London.

00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:31.280
I didn't really know anyone, but what I did know is 12-step.

00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:36.400
And I think I went to about 90 meetings in 90 days.

00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:36.880
Yeah.

00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:38.960
I met so many people.

00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:50.800
And I started, you know, going through the steps, working through it with a sponsor, and it's completely changed my life.

00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:52.719
And how old are you now?

00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:53.280
Twenty-eight.

00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:58.880
Twenty-eight, so yeah, still still obviously very young to kind of go through this this process.

00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:02.559
And how do you feel about your recovery now?

00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:09.119
Do you feel like you're fully there, it can never be shaken, or are you taking it one day at a time?

00:52:09.519 --> 00:52:11.119
I take it one day at a time.

00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:18.960
I think I used to be quite rigid in my recovery.

00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:23.760
And do can I talk about the job?

00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:24.400
Absolutely.

00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:26.320
Of course you can.

00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:34.719
And you know, working in recovery and having clients who are in different stages at recovery.

00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:36.800
You know, it's not one size fits all.

00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:37.760
Of course, yeah.

00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:39.760
It's okay, you've reduced.

00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:41.440
Let's monitor that.

00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:43.199
You are in recovery.

00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:46.960
You used to smoke eight spliffs a day, you're smoking one a week.

00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:47.760
Okay, cool.

00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:48.639
That's your recovery.

00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:48.960
Yeah.

00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:50.719
You want to be abstinent, great.

00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:54.960
So I think Understanding that everyone's goals are different.

00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:55.920
Everyone's goals are different.

00:52:56.079 --> 00:53:07.920
And I think I think that's so important because sometimes I think when people are in recovery, and I've I've you know been the volunteer leader of this service, I've seen it sometimes amongst my volunteers where they think recovery is complete abstinence.

00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:14.079
But you you could still be on a methadone program but be abstinent from illicit substances for six years, and that's still recovery.

00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:17.039
So it's it's it's not it's not linear.

00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:19.840
No, and everyone kind of approaches it differently.

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:27.599
But you obviously you you've just touched on it there, but the job working in recovery, what made you want to do that?

00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:32.880
And I guess talk me a little bit about that process moving into working in the recovery field.

00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:37.599
Well, I just saw it advertised and it was like, oh, have you got lived experience?

00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:38.960
I was like, Yeah.

00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:41.440
Definitely tick, big tick.

00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:46.320
And I'd always been really interested in helping people.

00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:56.079
And well, prior to that, I did probably going into paid work, I did some volunteer work with CGL.

00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:56.239
Okay.

00:53:56.559 --> 00:53:58.800
Did a bit of the training and I just really enjoyed it.

00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:03.599
So halfway through the training, I saw the job advert and I was like, oh, I'm gonna go for it.

00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:10.719
It's in London, I'm still in Brighton, but I think I just had a a feeling that that would be a really good move for me.

00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:17.519
So starting it, I was like, what the hell have I done?

00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:19.039
Why am I here?

00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:20.800
I'm barely recovered.

00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:24.079
How the hell am I gonna support all these different people?

00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:26.639
Like, I have no clue.

00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:37.199
But what I've learned in the space of recovery, even if you're four days or your four years, you still have little pockets of wisdom to offer people.

00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:44.400
And this job has been so expansive for my own recovery.

00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:59.280
As in accepting that I don't have to do everything by the book, everything makes up my own recovery, whether it's you know, I box five days a week now, that's part of my recovery.

00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:01.920
Meetings is part of my recovery.

00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:05.599
Like everything make I my room is always tidy now.

00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:07.119
You're welcome, Dad.

00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:10.800
Dad's though, fucking time.

00:55:11.360 --> 00:55:13.519
And you didn't need to go in the army to do it.

00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:14.800
Brilliant.

00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:32.079
So, you know, it's been it's been like a slow process, but things that make my life easier on a day-to-day basis that I'm not feeling like, oh my god, I need to get myself out of this by having a drink or a spliff, whatever.

00:55:32.719 --> 00:55:35.679
Little things that I can implement throughout my day or my week.

00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:36.960
What are those little things?

00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:39.199
Obviously, you've mentioned a couple there.

00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:47.599
Maintaining I d I guess one of the things that that I've heard before is getting sober is easy, it's staying sober.

00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:50.000
That can be the the difficult thing.

00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:55.360
What things are you doing that are, I guess, on a day-to-day basis?

00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:57.840
How do you keep yourself recovered?

00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:08.079
Because I think you know, I've heard when when we've been in meetings together as part of the part of your working role, that you still go into environments where there is alcohol.

00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:16.880
You still are in club scenes, pub scenes, you're still able to go in those environments and not be subject to a lapse or a relapse.

00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:17.119
Yeah.

00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:23.519
How would how have you built up the strength to to do that and be in those environments and I think continue your sobriety?

00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:27.199
The change the what is it?

00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:32.239
Oh, turning point.

00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:39.360
I think the turning point for me was addressing my mental health.

00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:51.599
I'd self-medicated for you know, eight, nine, ten years, alcohol, drugs, my depression and anxiety.

00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:58.159
And I think it was the third month of being completely sober.

00:56:58.400 --> 00:57:04.320
I was like, I feel more insane than I ever did when I was drinking or using.

00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:09.440
Like there is something broken in my brain, and I don't know what's going on.

00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:18.719
And I would have these breakdowns every four to six weeks, which didn't help starting a new role.

00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:25.840
I had to keep having time off work, and my mental health was in the bin.

00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:35.599
And because I was solo, I wasn't able to exercise, I wasn't able to feed myself properly, my motivation was just on the floor.

00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:45.840
I was turning up for work and I was masking and I was helping these people with their recovery, but I was like, hang on a minute, like what am I doing for myself?

00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:55.679
You give so much advice to others, but there comes a point where you you have to take it, otherwise I wouldn't be able to do the job.

00:57:55.840 --> 00:57:56.480
Yeah.

00:57:57.039 --> 00:58:02.000
So getting on medication has been a massive turning point for me.

00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:05.519
Boxing, huge.

00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:10.000
There's someone in Peckham who started a recovery boxing.

00:58:10.400 --> 00:58:14.960
So people go, it's like two hours, and we do a meditation.

00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:18.639
No, we do a check-in in the beginning.

00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:27.199
Everyone talks about where they are in their recovery, and then we do an hour of boxing, and then we do a meditation at the end, and it's free, and it's amazing.

00:58:27.599 --> 00:58:28.079
That's class.

00:58:28.239 --> 00:58:29.039
It's I love that.

00:58:29.679 --> 00:58:29.840
Yeah.

00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:31.280
That sounds so good.

00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:39.199
And so going to that class, I think for two or three months, I was like, I actually really enjoy this.

00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:45.039
There's something in like punching a bag and like getting my my anger out.

00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:54.400
I feel like I've always found anger really hard to show because my dad was incredibly angry and I was like, Oh, I don't want to be like him.

00:58:54.639 --> 00:59:00.800
So me accessing anger has been incredibly difficult and something that I've kind of stuffed down.

00:59:01.039 --> 00:59:02.639
And it's healthy to be angry sometimes.

00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:09.199
It's healthy to say people always say it's healthy to cry, and yes it is, but sometimes it's healthy to be be angry as well, isn't it?

00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:12.079
You've got to let it out at some point, in some way.

00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:15.599
Preferably in a constructive and safe environment as you are.

00:59:15.840 --> 00:59:17.760
Yeah, on a punching bag, of course.

00:59:18.000 --> 00:59:25.840
But I think it is healthy to channel that anger and do something with it and not just misplace it or suppress it or even ignore it, you know?

00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:26.960
Yeah.

00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:44.079
I guess another big turning point was getting my eating sorted when I got sober again, those first two, three months into sobriety, my eating was completely out of hand.

00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:51.280
I think a lot of people make jokes about how we start eating loads of sweets when we get sober and all of that.

00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:59.519
But what happened for me is I was eating all the sweets and like indulging all the cake and chocolate and binge eating, but then I was also.

01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:10.159
Purging and you know, I I developed that habit, and that really played into my mental health as well.

01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:17.760
So going on the medication, keeping up with physical exercise and getting a good night's sleep.

01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:19.280
Like, you know, all the all the things that I've done.

01:00:22.079 --> 01:00:23.360
Make it sound real easy.

01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:26.239
Get your eight hours a night, get your 10,000 steps in a day.

01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:27.119
It's like fuck me.

01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:33.519
But it's taken me three years to even get to a point where I could do that.

01:00:33.920 --> 01:00:37.199
Like I'm still amazed when I come back and I've got meal prep.

01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:37.679
Yeah.

01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:42.320
Like me in active addiction, not a chance.

01:00:42.639 --> 01:00:43.599
Not a chance.

01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:46.000
Like it would just be takeaways.

01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:47.760
I never washed my clothes.

01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:53.760
I was just living like just like a mess.

01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:54.960
Just a hot mess.

01:00:55.199 --> 01:00:57.360
But it didn't feel like a mess at the time.

01:00:57.440 --> 01:00:58.480
It felt normal.

01:00:58.719 --> 01:01:04.239
Or was you aware that you was living in those sort of circumstances?

01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:12.000
It felt like I had seven pots and six lids.

01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:18.800
And I was always trying to put the lids on the right pots constantly.

01:01:19.039 --> 01:01:21.360
I felt like I was in a washing machine.

01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:36.159
I had no control over my life and I was just living in a cycle of chaos and also not wanting to be here and waking up every day and being like, oh, I have to do it all over again today.

01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:37.760
Seems like a task.

01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:39.679
Whereas now, does it seem effortless now?

01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:45.199
Does it just well, you said then obviously to have meal prep, something you'd never be able to do before.

01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:45.599
Yeah.

01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:49.440
I think that's incredible that you're in a position where you can do that now and be organized.

01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:58.480
And we talked prior to this podcast about ADHD and just doing one thing after another and starting something, going on to the next.

01:01:58.559 --> 01:02:01.199
And it can be difficult to maintain like routine.

01:02:01.280 --> 01:02:04.960
And I think in some way with recovery, routine is so important.

01:02:05.199 --> 01:02:07.119
Structure is so important as well.

01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:07.920
Yeah.

01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:08.719
Completely.

01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:11.280
Do you do you meditate away from the groups as well?

01:02:11.920 --> 01:02:13.360
Okay, so that's something you practice as well.

01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:23.199
Yeah, I practice meditation, but I mean I do my gratitude list most days, and I walk around with with a lot of gratitude.

01:02:23.679 --> 01:02:33.840
I've just moved house and where I'm living is right next to the canal, and like that's stuff that little Mel would have dreamed of.

01:02:34.639 --> 01:02:38.320
And in all the darkness and kind of destruction.

01:02:38.800 --> 01:02:42.880
I literally never thought I'd be able to move, afford to move.

01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:45.199
Like none of that would have been possible.

01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:46.000
Yeah.

01:02:46.239 --> 01:02:50.960
And yeah, my life has completely changed getting sober.

01:02:51.360 --> 01:03:02.800
And obviously, you said with gratitude, you'll be much in a much better place and much more grateful for what you've got because you know what can happen when you don't have that and you don't have that structure.

01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:03.280
Yeah.

01:03:03.519 --> 01:03:10.159
Is there any bit of advice that you'd give to someone who is maybe in a similar place to where you've been before?

01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:14.400
Anything that was maybe shared with you that was a bit of a key changing moment?

01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:27.119
I would say if you're not if you're not wanting to go down 12-step fellowship, get really curious about recovery.

01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:43.039
Read all the books that you can, listen to podcasts, just find out different sources of information because there's so many resources for people that help.

01:03:43.760 --> 01:03:45.920
Like there's so much help out there.

01:03:46.719 --> 01:03:50.639
And I mean, now working in the sector, I realize how much help is there.

01:03:50.800 --> 01:03:51.119
Yeah.

01:03:51.360 --> 01:03:54.239
And I kind of did it blind.

01:03:54.320 --> 01:03:57.440
I didn't really know what I was doing, and I stumbled my way through it.

01:03:57.519 --> 01:04:01.440
And you know, luckily it's been like the biggest gift ever.

01:04:01.760 --> 01:04:11.440
But if you're thinking about it, just kind of pick up different things in your own sobriety toolbox and see what works for you and discard the rest.

01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:12.159
Absolutely.

01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:13.119
Thank you, Mel.

01:04:13.360 --> 01:04:16.880
Is there anything else you'd like to share before I move on to the last part of this podcast?

01:04:17.199 --> 01:04:18.000
I don't think so.

01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:18.639
Good.

01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:21.760
I'll uh start with my first question.

01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:22.159
Okay.

01:04:22.320 --> 01:04:26.800
I don't know if you know this, but I have a series of questions that I'd like to ask all my guests at the end of our podcast.

01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:29.840
And my first one being, what is your favourite word?

01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:32.880
My favourite word.

01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:35.920
Oh, I don't know.

01:04:36.320 --> 01:04:38.159
I wish I'd prepared this.

01:04:39.119 --> 01:04:40.639
It's a proper popcorn, isn't it?

01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:42.159
For God's sake.

01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:44.480
My favourite words.

01:04:44.719 --> 01:04:45.599
I don't know.

01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:47.119
I really like eggs.

01:04:47.360 --> 01:04:47.760
Eggs?

01:04:47.920 --> 01:04:48.159
Nice.

01:04:48.400 --> 01:04:48.880
Two G's.

01:04:49.119 --> 01:04:49.280
Yeah.

01:04:52.800 --> 01:04:53.840
I can I understand that one.

01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:54.159
Thank you.

01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:55.599
Least favourite word.

01:04:57.360 --> 01:04:59.199
You're gonna struggle with these questions.

01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:00.639
For God's sake.

01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:02.639
Least favourite word.

01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:07.920
Can I share someone else's least favourite word?

01:05:08.239 --> 01:05:08.719
Yeah.

01:05:09.039 --> 01:05:14.079
I met a girl the other day and she said her least favourite word was the word tooting beck.

01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:14.800
What is that?

01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:15.920
It's a place in London.

01:05:16.159 --> 01:05:16.880
Tootinbeck.

01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:18.719
She just already didn't like it.

01:05:19.039 --> 01:05:21.199
Medieval fucking England or something, doesn't it?

01:05:22.079 --> 01:05:23.440
Maybe that's why she doesn't like it.

01:05:23.840 --> 01:05:36.960
What excites you, whether that be creatively, spiritually, or emotionally I think adventure and challenges really excite me.

01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:44.000
Learning like gaining knowledge excites me.

01:05:44.559 --> 01:05:45.920
What doesn't excite you?

01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:48.559
Being stagnant.

01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:50.880
Favourite curse word.

01:05:55.039 --> 01:05:55.760
Can I say the word?

01:05:56.159 --> 01:05:57.679
Of course you can, it's the question.

01:05:57.840 --> 01:06:00.400
Say it I can't.

01:06:02.079 --> 01:06:04.079
What sound or noise do you love?

01:06:06.960 --> 01:06:13.280
I feel like this is a really basic bitch answer, but when you crack open a 3 pm diet coke.

01:06:13.599 --> 01:06:13.760
Thanks.

01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:14.880
That's not basic bitch.

01:06:15.760 --> 01:06:17.519
What sound or noise do you hear?

01:06:22.880 --> 01:06:26.079
I don't sound or noise.

01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:30.960
I just think of corduroy, you know, when you put your nails on corduroy, but that's not a sound.

01:06:31.119 --> 01:06:33.199
So like nails on a chalkboard then.

01:06:33.760 --> 01:06:36.320
What profession would you like to attempt?

01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:41.519
Probably an art therapist.

01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:43.760
What profession would you not like to do?

01:06:49.199 --> 01:06:50.480
Primary school teacher.

01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:55.920
And then lastly, if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the Pearlie Gates?

01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:09.440
Can you read it the question again?

01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:14.880
If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the Pearley Gates?

01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:16.559
What are you wearing?

01:07:18.639 --> 01:07:21.599
What are you how dare you come here dressed like that?

01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:22.480
What are you wearing?

01:07:22.639 --> 01:07:23.199
What are you wearing?

01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:25.760
Mel, thank you so much for joining me on Believe in People.

01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:26.960
You have been wonderful.

01:07:27.199 --> 01:07:28.079
Thanks for having me.

01:07:28.320 --> 01:07:33.519
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01:07:33.679 --> 01:07:36.239
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01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:41.199
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01:07:41.360 --> 01:07:45.760
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01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:51.840
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