Jan. 26, 2024

Ruth: Alcohol Dependency, Cancer, Triggers, Drinking Behaviours & Exclusive Access To Her Personal Alcohol Diary

Ruth: Alcohol Dependency, Cancer, Triggers, Drinking Behaviours & Exclusive Access To Her Personal Alcohol Diary
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Ruth: Alcohol Dependency, Cancer, Triggers, Drinking Behaviours & Exclusive Access To Her Personal Alcohol Diary
Ruth: Alcohol Dependency, Cancer, Triggers, Drinking Behaviours & Exclusive Access To Her Personal Alcohol Diary

Matt delves into Ruth's courageous journey battling alcohol dependency while facing the formidable challenge of a cancer diagnosis. From the casual indulgence to the grip of addiction, Ruth candidly shares her experiences, detailing her use of alcohol diaries to unravel her triggers and pave the path towards recovery. Ruth's unwavering commitment to maintaining sobriety amidst the adversity of her illness serves as a profound source of inspiration. Her story illuminates the virtues of resil...

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Season 1

Matt delves into Ruth's courageous journey battling alcohol dependency while facing the formidable challenge of a cancer diagnosis.

From the casual indulgence to the grip of addiction, Ruth candidly shares her experiences, detailing her use of alcohol diaries to unravel her triggers and pave the path towards recovery.

Ruth's unwavering commitment to maintaining sobriety amidst the adversity of her illness serves as a profound source of inspiration. Her story illuminates the virtues of resilience, self-discovery, and the transformative power of seeking support.

This episode serves as a beacon of hope, fostering empathy and encouraging open dialogues about mental health and sobriety.

Click here to text our host, Matt, directly!

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🔗 Then share this episode with someone you know who could benefit from it.

Browse the full archive at 👉 www.believeinpeoplepodcast.com

This is a toolkit for recovery & resilience. Whether you’re in recovery or seeking to understand addiction, there’s something here for everyone.

📩 Contact: robbie@believeinpeoplepodcast.com
🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” by Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)

🔗 Listen & Subscribe
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🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
🎛️ Producer: Robbie Lawson
🏢 Network: ReNew

WEBVTT

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This is a Renew original recording.

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Hello and welcome to the Believe in People podcast.

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My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or as I like to say, your facilitator.

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Today we have the privilege of hearing from Ruth, who shares her journey through alcohol diaries, the profound commitment required for sobriety.

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Ruth discusses the time and effort invested to maintain a healthy, alcohol-free lifestyle, offering insights into the challenges she has faced.

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Remarkably, she reflects on her unwavering dedication to sobriety, even in the midst of a challenging cancer diagnosis.

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First of all, will you please introduce yourself?

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My name's

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Bruce.

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I'm 67 years of age.

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I'm going through my sobriety at the moment.

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I've now been dry for, it's just coming up to 22 months.

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I'm an East End girl, East End poplar, where the midwife is.

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Very proud to come from the East End of London.

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Quite a varied childhood.

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And then we wanted to move.

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away from London because he got so busy really busy and we came up here because somebody said about the docks in Hull and I thought when we came here we spent three months here and the docks I love the docks because Canary Wharf basically is where I was born more or less just give a mile or two and yeah that was a big part of our life watching the big boats coming you know the tea coffee and so on yeah How long have you

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been in Hull now?

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20 years You've still got The accent is still quite thick East London accent, isn't it?

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I'm not going to lose my accent, no.

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You can take the girl out the East End, but you can't take the East End out the girl.

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Ruth, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

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I've invited you on for a myriad of reasons, but yeah, your name has popped up quite a lot amongst my colleagues saying how much you'd make a great guest because you're going through a lot at the moment.

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I can say.

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And the interesting thing with this one is, like with all our guests, we had a brief meeting a couple of weeks ago and you gave us access to all these diaries that you've been keeping, which has been absolutely fantastic because I've never experienced anybody say, here's my diaries, here's a lot of my personal thoughts and feelings, here's my journal, read them.

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Diaries are often quite a personal thing.

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And obviously I can see that it's personal, but you've given us access to read it.

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And it's been...

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It's been very interesting, to say the least.

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First time ever reading someone's diary and reading your journal and where you are in terms of sobriety.

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There's just a lot there.

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So I'm going to talk about journaling and diarying.

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Have you always had a diary?

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No.

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Is this quite a new thing with sobriety is keeping a journal?

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Excuse

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me.

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I think when my first session...

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at Foundations Alive.

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I took in so much information and I thought, oh no, I don't want to lose this.

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I want to keep this.

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And that's where it started.

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But no, I've never kept a diary.

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I've done little short bits and pieces, but nothing major.

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But this

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was really important to

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me.

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It's something that as recovery workers we often suggest to people is journaling, using diaries, whether that be like a drinks diary or things like that.

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But It's a big thing for mental health at the moment as well.

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Mental health advocacy really pushing on people to take notes and make journals, to try and just get thoughts to paper.

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So we're not keeping everything in our head.

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It's almost like we're sharing it, even if we're not sharing it with anybody.

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It's an escape.

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Exactly.

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And as

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long as you're honest and put down how you're really feeling or what you want to achieve, just be honest with them.

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So in terms of what we found out in these diaries, I don't want to go too much into this because I'm aware of our audience hasn't had the chance to read all these diaries.

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So tell me a little bit about how long have you been drinking?

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I started when I was 29.

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Never much of a drinker, social drinker.

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Then 29, I nursed my ex-mother-in-law.

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She had breast cancer.

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And she didn't have any daughters.

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So she said to me, will you nurse me at home?

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So I said, yes.

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And I don't wish to cause any upset.

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But I woke up in the bed and she was dead next to me.

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And I was 29.

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And that, it frightened me.

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It really did.

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And the only comfort I got was having a few bevvies.

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And then when I got to 32, I met Steve.

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And Steve was a drinker.

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So that's where it started.

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I'd start off with half.

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Didn't really do spirits, didn't like spirits.

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And then we went to a social club one weekend.

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And this girl, she said to Steve, oh, don't buy her half, buy her a pint.

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And that's where the fun and games began.

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Because you said in your diary that you liked the way that beer did make you feel.

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It made you feel a little bit floaty, I think was the words that was in there.

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And I like that because it resonated with me.

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I understand that.

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Nice floaty feeling, like a bit of a weight has been lifted.

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That's what alcohol can do.

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Took some of the pressure off.

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Took some of the pressure off it, whether it be like that sort of physical pressure experience.

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It's a coping mechanism, whether it's to mentally relax or physically relax.

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A lot of people tend to alcohol for that reason.

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But you went from beer to wine and it all kind of seemed to escalate from there.

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Well, I drank, I would only drink Fosters.

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I

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really liked Fosters.

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Ice cold in a pint cold glass, yeah.

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And I'd drunk that for years.

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And then I started to get a funny tummy and it wasn't right.

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And so I said to my husband, what I'll do is I think I'll change it.

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I'll cut down on the lager and I'll change it to wine.

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Big mistake.

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Very big mistake.

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And started off with one bottle.

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Then it went to two.

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Then it went to three.

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Then it went to four.

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Then the blackouts came.

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Then the hospital trips began.

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Then I went to five.

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And then I went to six.

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And six was my limit.

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because by the time I'd had six in one day, I was totally...

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Because you make a note about some of the injuries that he was experiencing under the influence of alcohol, which often resulted into trips to A&E.

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How long do you feel like you lived with an alcohol dependency then?

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What sort of age are we looking at?

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Because you started drinking at 29 and obviously, you know, you've said...

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I would

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say about 45.

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I'm 67

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now.

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67 now.

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Yeah,

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yeah.

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So that's a good nearly 30 years of your life of alcohol dependency.

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Yeah, and when I look

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back,

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I just

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think, wow.

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And I'll be honest with you, what a waste.

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That's what I wanted to ask you because, I mean, we're going to talk about this anyway, but you've recently had a cancer diagnosis as well.

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so you become abstinent from alcohol you overcome an alcohol dependency and then you find out that you have cancer and I just think when we spoke about this a couple of weeks ago I nearly cried when we were talking because it was just so sad to overcome that and not in a I don't want to say I felt sorry for you it was not that sort of thing it was just how shit life can be I guess a

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lot of people have said to me, why you?

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But why not me?

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Everybody has problems.

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Everybody falls ill.

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I've had two good years of life in my sobriety.

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It's not always been nice.

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It's always been a struggle and a fight.

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And there have been times when I wanted a drink.

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But I was determined the one thing I would do was to keep my sobriety.

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That is my number one.

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That is my number one and my chance.

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Keep your sobriety.

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You've been through it.

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You've done it.

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Don't go back.

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I say I've already been through it.

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I don't want to go back there again.

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I've crossed it off my bucket list.

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That's what I've done.

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The

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interesting thing about this is I've spoken to people in sobriety before and I've asked questions, for instance, what would be the one thing that would make you have a drink again?

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And they said, you know what, if I found out I was going to If I found out I was terminally ill or I was going to die tomorrow, that'd be when I'd hit the fuck it button.

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That'd be when I'd go and have a drink because I'd be thinking, what's the point?

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And I think this is the one thing that I loved about you and your story is you've done the complete opposite.

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You haven't gone back to alcoholism because a lot of people would.

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When we talk about alcoholism being a coping mechanism and drinking being a coping mechanism, from the physical pressures, from the stress, the mental, everything, You've not done that.

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In fact, you've just said then, you're adamant that you will maintain your sobriety.

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My sobriety

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is my number one, and it always will be.

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How has

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that become so important for you?

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For someone who nearly had alcohol dependency for 30 years, absence for two years...

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Why is the sobriety so important?

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Now, even with a cancer diagnosis, why is the sobriety so important to maintain that?

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I was in hospital for a really long time.

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I was really ill.

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I had sepsis.

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I got COVID, chest infection.

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It was

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about five months, wasn't it?

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Yeah.

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You thought he was going in for three days and it ended up being about five months.

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Yeah.

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Amazing.

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Yeah.

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But all I can

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say is the hospital staff were marvellous.

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Yeah.

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And it got to one, I had various test scans, all sorts.

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And then the consultant come and saw me and he sat on my bed.

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And he said to me, if you have one more drink, you will die because you've got cirrhosis of the liver.

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And he said, I'm not messing, you will die.

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And I laid in bed and my grandchildren went through my mind, my children.

00:10:36.865 --> 00:10:42.352
my sister and brother, because my mum had 13 children and there's only three of us left now.

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Don't get me wrong, we've had our ups and downs, but they're my family and that's what I did it for.

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I want to see my grandchildren grow up and make me a great grandma, please God.

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But as for the cancer diagnosis, I was ill in June and I had this really bad cough.

00:11:06.306 --> 00:11:07.889
Because I've got COPD.

00:11:08.789 --> 00:11:11.053
And I thought, this isn't right.

00:11:11.754 --> 00:11:14.278
I knew by certain things that my body was telling me.

00:11:15.841 --> 00:11:20.389
So the doctor gave me some Presnizolone and some antibiotics.

00:11:21.309 --> 00:11:22.072
So I took those.

00:11:22.131 --> 00:11:23.313
The cough seemed to ease.

00:11:24.235 --> 00:11:27.660
Once I'd finished, the next week it was back again.

00:11:28.621 --> 00:11:29.985
Only this time a little bit worse.

00:11:30.946 --> 00:11:32.467
And I thought, no, this ain't right.

00:11:33.048 --> 00:11:34.110
So I spoke to my doctor.

00:11:34.409 --> 00:11:35.431
I'll give you another course.

00:11:36.533 --> 00:11:37.594
Exactly the same happened.

00:11:38.335 --> 00:11:42.919
And by the third week, like the, yeah, the sixth week, I rang my doctor.

00:11:42.961 --> 00:11:48.748
And he said, no, I'm not giving you no more antibiotics or steroids.

00:11:49.769 --> 00:11:51.730
He said, I want you to go and have a chest X-ray.

00:11:52.831 --> 00:11:56.417
But I never got that chest X-ray because I was really poorly.

00:11:57.118 --> 00:11:58.558
And they took me into hospital.

00:11:58.599 --> 00:12:00.522
And I was...

00:12:00.898 --> 00:12:31.399
in an old Covid ward where we was all isolated and the lady come and saw me the lady consultant and she said what we want to do is we want to do a bronoscopy to see exactly what's going on so they discharged me then and I had to go to Castle Hill to have the bronoscopy so off I went to Castle Hill they put a camera up my nose down into my lung but they had to stop it because my oxygen Just dropped.

00:12:32.359 --> 00:12:43.570
So they said, what we'll do is we'll send for you and we'll do it in the infirmary because they haven't got the same equipment as what Castle Hill have got.

00:12:44.230 --> 00:12:48.855
So when I saw, dear little man, dear little man, Chinese he was.

00:12:48.875 --> 00:12:53.599
So I goes back into hospital, saw this chap still cough, cough, cough.

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And he said to me, we're going to do a brunoscopy, but we've got to go through your mouth.

00:13:00.186 --> 00:13:00.605
I went, no.

00:13:00.994 --> 00:13:01.914
No, you're not.

00:13:02.355 --> 00:13:03.496
And he said, can I ask why?

00:13:04.177 --> 00:13:11.148
And I said, I had a really bad, and I did, but I don't want to discuss that because it's not fair to other people because everybody reacts differently.

00:13:12.168 --> 00:13:17.255
So I said to him, no, I just, no.

00:13:18.076 --> 00:13:25.287
So he said, well, I'll tell you what, if I give you some special stuff, you won't remember what's going to happen.

00:13:26.408 --> 00:13:31.711
So I said, right, if you give me the special stuff, And it doesn't work.

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And I say, stop.

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I want you to stop.

00:13:36.038 --> 00:13:38.381
Because if you don't, I will pull it out myself.

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I don't remember anymore.

00:13:41.326 --> 00:13:42.288
Blooming marvellous.

00:13:42.889 --> 00:13:44.350
I just don't remember anymore.

00:13:44.792 --> 00:13:50.100
Anyway, they managed to get the sample that they wanted.

00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:52.302
And they sent me home.

00:13:53.585 --> 00:13:56.450
And then I got called back in to have...

00:13:56.898 --> 00:13:57.960
Various scans.

00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:05.131
And I will tell you this, and I see it as funny, you may not, but they called me in to go to a ward.

00:14:05.874 --> 00:14:09.900
So they said, yeah, we've got the windows open, we know you like fresh air, blah, blah.

00:14:11.163 --> 00:14:16.351
Anyway, me and Abby, we went in, got settled in, and there were blinds across the window.

00:14:16.371 --> 00:14:19.778
And I said to my husband, oh, I'm going to open those blinds.

00:14:20.162 --> 00:14:27.174
I was across the road to the Ruddy Moultrie and I said to them, are you trying to tell me something?

00:14:27.195 --> 00:14:27.856
But that's just

00:14:27.897 --> 00:14:28.979
my sense of humour.

00:14:29.038 --> 00:14:30.942
No, there's nothing wrong with that, is there?

00:14:30.962 --> 00:14:32.205
No, I'd have thought the same thing.

00:14:32.605 --> 00:14:33.528
But they were lovely.

00:14:33.748 --> 00:14:36.894
Anyway, then they said, right.

00:14:37.121 --> 00:14:41.126
We need you to go to Castle Hill to see the oncologist.

00:14:41.548 --> 00:14:43.650
No, not oncologist, the chest consultant.

00:14:44.211 --> 00:14:47.176
So I went and I waited two weeks.

00:14:47.655 --> 00:14:51.081
I got a phone call at home and she said, Dr.

00:14:51.140 --> 00:14:52.863
Kedar wants to see you.

00:14:52.883 --> 00:14:54.205
This was on the Monday.

00:14:54.946 --> 00:14:58.250
She wants to see you in her clinic on Thursday.

00:14:59.052 --> 00:15:00.253
And I thought there's something wrong.

00:15:01.815 --> 00:15:06.918
Anyway, a good friend of mine who I met, on my journey and we're still really good friends.

00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:08.640
She said, I'll come with you.

00:15:08.660 --> 00:15:17.153
Anyway, we walked in this office and there's this doctor and I sat down and I looked at her and I went, have I got cancer?

00:15:18.416 --> 00:15:20.298
Just blatantly, have I got cancer?

00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:22.302
So she said, we'll come to that.

00:15:22.962 --> 00:15:27.429
So then she asked me something else and I said, but have I got cancer?

00:15:27.450 --> 00:15:28.530
She said, we'll come to that.

00:15:29.091 --> 00:15:33.958
Anyway, she explained, it's in my second lobe, in my Right lung.

00:15:34.561 --> 00:15:38.710
In your left lung, you only get two lobes because that makes a place for the heart.

00:15:39.211 --> 00:15:40.975
But in your right lung, you get three.

00:15:40.995 --> 00:15:43.260
And it's in this lobe here.

00:15:44.143 --> 00:15:48.392
So she said, then we went through the treatment.

00:15:48.852 --> 00:15:50.778
And then I said, have I got cancer?

00:15:51.234 --> 00:15:52.475
So she said, yes.

00:15:52.975 --> 00:15:55.519
So I said to her, well, why didn't I tell you that?

00:15:56.039 --> 00:15:59.624
Why didn't you tell me that when you first asked me, when I first asked you?

00:15:59.663 --> 00:15:59.964
Sorry.

00:16:00.605 --> 00:16:04.490
So she said I needed to go through a certain process, which was fine.

00:16:05.210 --> 00:16:16.163
And then she brought a Macmillan nurse in, and the nurse took me off to speak to me about what Macmillan do, and that I don't want to, and my friend shook her out.

00:16:16.663 --> 00:16:20.347
And she said to my friend, I hate this part of the job.

00:16:21.229 --> 00:16:22.429
I really hate it.

00:16:22.971 --> 00:16:24.572
Anyway, one thing led to another.

00:16:25.413 --> 00:16:29.618
And, yeah, I got diagnosed about October time.

00:16:29.698 --> 00:16:29.918
No.

00:16:30.860 --> 00:16:32.381
Yeah, about October time.

00:16:33.222 --> 00:16:40.410
And I just started, because I had to have a PET scan, another CT, various bits and bobs.

00:16:41.392 --> 00:16:43.714
And this is now the second week of my treatment.

00:16:45.076 --> 00:16:45.436
What was it?

00:16:45.475 --> 00:16:46.878
Just talk about that then.

00:16:47.169 --> 00:16:53.938
What was it like being told, obviously I know they went round the houses with it, but what was it like being told in that moment you have cancer?

00:16:53.999 --> 00:16:56.062
How did that make you feel in that moment?

00:16:56.402 --> 00:16:56.802
I knew.

00:16:56.822 --> 00:17:03.211
I knew by the way my body was and what was happening to my body.

00:17:03.692 --> 00:17:06.415
I don't want to go into detail because it's not fair to others.

00:17:08.218 --> 00:17:10.781
But I knew there was something wrong.

00:17:12.182 --> 00:17:17.150
Just by my body, well I will say, bringing up sputum and I'm not being rude.

00:17:17.442 --> 00:17:18.423
Big lumps like that.

00:17:19.244 --> 00:17:20.386
Thick and lumpy.

00:17:20.446 --> 00:17:24.994
And it was a cough that I'd never had before.

00:17:25.656 --> 00:17:27.559
And the breathlessness got worse and worse.

00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:28.480
Yeah.

00:17:28.741 --> 00:17:30.986
Was there some relief when they give you that confirmation?

00:17:31.006 --> 00:17:34.211
If that's something that you knew deep down, was there relief when that was confirmed?

00:17:34.432 --> 00:17:35.534
Or was it just a case of...

00:17:36.496 --> 00:17:37.317
I've got cancer.

00:17:37.376 --> 00:17:37.597
Yeah.

00:17:38.077 --> 00:17:39.681
You know, it was like I just...

00:17:40.722 --> 00:17:42.365
I know it sounds bigoted, but I know...

00:17:42.721 --> 00:17:43.423
Yeah.

00:17:43.442 --> 00:17:43.844
And I thought,

00:17:43.884 --> 00:17:44.565
yeah, you're right.

00:17:45.066 --> 00:17:49.231
Well, if you lived in your body as long as you are, do you know at this point?

00:17:50.032 --> 00:17:51.515
Well, if you don't know your own body.

00:17:51.575 --> 00:17:52.256
Yeah, exactly.

00:17:52.317 --> 00:17:56.182
Then, you know, it's like the difference between wine and lager.

00:17:57.483 --> 00:17:59.247
The lager, my body was sick of.

00:17:59.907 --> 00:17:59.988
Yeah.

00:18:00.008 --> 00:18:02.471
So the wine took that, took place of that.

00:18:03.333 --> 00:18:06.157
And then we saw another...

00:18:06.625 --> 00:18:18.522
We saw the proper oncologist, and she was really lovely, and she explained to me, I can't have an operation because I'll probably die on the operating table.

00:18:18.542 --> 00:18:23.750
I can't have chemotherapy because my body will not take it.

00:18:25.051 --> 00:18:31.101
So they're trying it with radiotherapy, but there's no guarantee that it will work.

00:18:32.041 --> 00:18:34.806
If that fails, then I go on to palliative care.

00:18:35.137 --> 00:18:37.800
But I haven't even thought about that.

00:18:38.082 --> 00:18:47.795
No, because this is the interesting thing about you, and I think it's one of the reasons why we wanted you on in the first place, is even knowing all this stuff that you was going through.

00:18:47.855 --> 00:18:49.155
I hadn't even met you at this point.

00:18:49.717 --> 00:18:53.461
The first time I met you, you were just so chipper.

00:18:54.323 --> 00:19:09.548
And I think that's what a lot of people know and seem to love you for as well, is that even despite everything that you've gone through personally, With alcohol dependency and now with the cancer diagnosis, you still seem like a very upbeat person.

00:19:10.290 --> 00:19:15.563
How do you maintain that personality of being so upbeat despite going through everything that you've gone through?

00:19:15.583 --> 00:19:16.464
It's just me.

00:19:17.528 --> 00:19:18.068
It's just me.

00:19:19.432 --> 00:19:20.032
I love life.

00:19:20.642 --> 00:19:26.529
And I love people, people that I choose to be with, not people that choose to be with me.

00:19:26.869 --> 00:19:32.458
Have you found a new appreciation for life since, like, well, I guess with the diagnosis, with the sobriety?

00:19:32.498 --> 00:19:41.308
And going back to what you were saying earlier about, like, wasted time, 30 years of alcohol dependency, you said it yourself, what a waste.

00:19:42.230 --> 00:19:45.835
What do you look back on that time now, going through what you're going through now?

00:19:46.635 --> 00:19:47.758
It's just a drunken blur.

00:19:48.226 --> 00:19:48.686
Yeah.

00:19:48.707 --> 00:19:48.967
Just a

00:19:49.147 --> 00:19:50.028
drunken blur.

00:19:50.770 --> 00:19:55.499
You know, I remember certain things, but the majority of it is, you know,

00:19:56.099 --> 00:19:56.320
yeah.

00:19:57.702 --> 00:20:01.410
Is there a lot of regret, or is it more, what can you do about

00:20:01.430 --> 00:20:01.470
it?

00:20:01.490 --> 00:20:06.558
Well, what I can do about it is, you know, the life that I've got left, you know, that's in the past.

00:20:07.161 --> 00:20:08.082
I can't change it.

00:20:08.542 --> 00:20:11.949
And I'm not so sure I would if I could, actually, because...

00:20:13.026 --> 00:20:14.307
Life is life.

00:20:15.328 --> 00:20:20.434
You know, and this is going to sound really morbid, but we're only here for a short time.

00:20:21.016 --> 00:20:23.659
So just enjoy what time you've got left.

00:20:24.140 --> 00:20:24.861
Make the most of it.

00:20:25.320 --> 00:20:27.523
All right, if you're having a crap day, you're having a crap day.

00:20:28.065 --> 00:20:29.666
But don't take it out on everybody else.

00:20:30.448 --> 00:20:30.847
Smile.

00:20:31.888 --> 00:20:32.309
Smile.

00:20:33.090 --> 00:20:33.932
So infectious.

00:20:34.271 --> 00:20:34.932
Thank you, Ruth.

00:20:35.053 --> 00:20:37.336
There's a quote here that I've got from your diary.

00:20:37.836 --> 00:20:41.942
And it says here, recovery didn't open the gates of heaven and let me in.

00:20:42.625 --> 00:20:45.154
Recovery opened the gates of hell and let me out.

00:20:45.797 --> 00:20:46.378
I loved that.

00:20:47.422 --> 00:20:49.849
Tell me a little bit about that feeling.

00:20:51.315 --> 00:20:53.482
Is that how you describe it, 30 years of hell?

00:20:53.844 --> 00:20:54.023
Yeah.

00:20:54.506 --> 00:20:54.826
Really?

00:20:55.087 --> 00:20:55.609
Basically.

00:20:56.066 --> 00:20:57.969
because you lie, you cheat.

00:20:58.569 --> 00:21:01.773
You will do anything, and I don't care what anybody else says,

00:21:02.315 --> 00:21:03.155
to get their drink.

00:21:03.596 --> 00:21:05.479
Why do you think it was such a long time then?

00:21:05.618 --> 00:21:09.104
If it was hell, why do you think it took you 30 years to get clean?

00:21:09.144 --> 00:21:10.486
Because I didn't have anything else.

00:21:11.567 --> 00:21:14.111
You know, I isolated myself for 18 months.

00:21:14.971 --> 00:21:15.712
I didn't wash.

00:21:16.226 --> 00:21:22.615
I didn't change my clothes, sat around in the flat, didn't eat, I lost five stone.

00:21:23.737 --> 00:21:27.261
I was a mess at the end of it, and I mean a mess.

00:21:28.042 --> 00:21:29.865
And it was only me that could change it.

00:21:30.586 --> 00:21:34.531
And to a certain extent, I'm grateful for the second chance.

00:21:35.472 --> 00:21:39.138
You know, I can't go back 30 years, it's impossible.

00:21:39.558 --> 00:21:44.066
So I could live another maybe five, ten, who knows?

00:21:44.417 --> 00:21:48.261
But that faces us every day in real life.

00:21:48.583 --> 00:21:53.708
When he's ready for you, he will take you.

00:21:53.748 --> 00:21:54.909
Yeah.

00:21:55.589 --> 00:21:58.012
But don't get me wrong, I'm going kicking and screaming.

00:21:59.054 --> 00:21:59.894
No, seriously.

00:21:59.934 --> 00:22:02.458
We're only here for a short time.

00:22:03.038 --> 00:22:04.619
So, yeah, I've wasted 30 years.

00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:08.924
Can you tell me what the rock bottom moment was in those 30 years?

00:22:09.005 --> 00:22:13.630
You said then about obviously you went through a period of time where you just didn't wash, didn't change, didn't eat.

00:22:14.882 --> 00:22:16.944
Can you recall what the rock bottom moment was?

00:22:17.144 --> 00:22:21.710
The moment where you thought, right, I have to get sober now.

00:22:22.090 --> 00:22:24.133
The moment that consultant sat on my bed.

00:22:25.013 --> 00:22:26.896
So was you still drinking at that time?

00:22:27.096 --> 00:22:27.217
Yeah,

00:22:27.257 --> 00:22:29.920
that's why I was taken into hospital, because I'd collapsed again.

00:22:30.861 --> 00:22:32.644
Yeah, I used to collapse regular.

00:22:33.424 --> 00:22:35.186
Yeah, I did used to collapse regular.

00:22:36.208 --> 00:22:42.615
And the moment that he sat me on my bed and said, you have one more drink and you will die.

00:22:42.635 --> 00:22:44.298
And you will die.

00:22:44.738 --> 00:22:45.659
Yeah.

00:22:45.679 --> 00:22:47.320
Put everything into perspective for you.

00:22:47.421 --> 00:22:49.523
Yeah, it was just like a light bulb moment.

00:22:49.723 --> 00:22:55.631
Do you think if someone had told you that maybe 10, 20 years earlier, even if it was a scare tactic, that would have made you change?

00:22:55.750 --> 00:22:59.013
Or did you know then that it was right, that if you did it in a run of one, you would die?

00:22:59.234 --> 00:23:00.496
I didn't think I had a problem.

00:23:00.715 --> 00:23:00.896
No.

00:23:01.396 --> 00:23:03.259
I honestly didn't think I had a problem.

00:23:03.740 --> 00:23:08.885
Towards the end, I did, because I got sick of the alcohol, but my body...

00:23:09.602 --> 00:23:11.243
Wanted it, it needed it.

00:23:11.523 --> 00:23:14.028
There's a big difference between wanting and needing.

00:23:14.627 --> 00:23:24.240
But my body actually, you know, in the morning, being sick, I'd wake up at three o'clock, I had a terrible pain under my chest.

00:23:24.721 --> 00:23:26.544
And I knew that I was going to be sick.

00:23:27.223 --> 00:23:33.031
And I purposely got some wine, drank it, Brought up sick.

00:23:34.634 --> 00:23:37.017
And then I went back and got the butler.

00:23:37.557 --> 00:23:38.799
That's crazy.

00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:39.840
That's crazy.

00:23:39.881 --> 00:23:41.202
That's not normal behaviour.

00:23:41.242 --> 00:23:43.144
The definition of madness, isn't it?

00:23:43.185 --> 00:23:46.230
Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

00:23:46.390 --> 00:23:47.632
Yeah.

00:23:47.711 --> 00:23:48.553
And then once the

00:23:48.593 --> 00:23:49.134
shaking

00:23:49.173 --> 00:23:51.096
stopped, the vomiting stopped,

00:23:51.636 --> 00:23:52.057
I was on

00:23:52.097 --> 00:23:52.818
my merry way.

00:23:53.118 --> 00:23:57.545
So you even were going through all that, you didn't think you had a problem?

00:23:58.165 --> 00:23:58.205
No.

00:23:58.913 --> 00:23:59.173
No.

00:23:59.295 --> 00:24:00.636
That's crazy, that, isn't it?

00:24:00.656 --> 00:24:02.259
I used to see the boys in the tent.

00:24:03.501 --> 00:24:04.763
Didn't relate to them at all.

00:24:05.484 --> 00:24:05.525
No.

00:24:05.545 --> 00:24:06.165
Now I do.

00:24:07.028 --> 00:24:07.107
Yeah.

00:24:07.127 --> 00:24:07.628
Now I do.

00:24:07.648 --> 00:24:09.211
What was it like for your family then?

00:24:09.250 --> 00:24:10.593
Didn't they recognise you?

00:24:10.634 --> 00:24:12.936
Didn't they tell you you had a problem?

00:24:12.957 --> 00:24:14.619
My sister, she

00:24:14.820 --> 00:24:15.862
totally disowned me.

00:24:16.604 --> 00:24:16.683
Yeah.

00:24:16.703 --> 00:24:17.464
And my brother did.

00:24:18.547 --> 00:24:22.393
But you have to make...

00:24:23.394 --> 00:24:24.276
No, you don't have to...

00:24:25.665 --> 00:24:28.050
You try to put the wrongs that you've done right.

00:24:28.772 --> 00:24:28.853
Yeah.

00:24:28.873 --> 00:24:30.817
You know, yeah.

00:24:31.198 --> 00:24:35.487
And we've got, she's a bit of an odd fish, my sister, but she's my sister and I love her.

00:24:36.308 --> 00:24:40.156
So, and my brother, you know, because I was their mum.

00:24:40.818 --> 00:24:44.125
Because my mum, her last baby, was a stillborn.

00:24:44.321 --> 00:24:47.548
She had a thalidomide baby, Joanne.

00:24:48.390 --> 00:24:53.460
And my mum had to give birth to her, and all she could remember was her little stubby fingers and her little stubby toes.

00:24:53.921 --> 00:24:55.284
And then she had a nervous breakdown.

00:24:55.984 --> 00:24:59.791
Well, at six, you may or may not believe this, I became their mum.

00:25:01.134 --> 00:25:04.561
And I raised them, yeah, looked after them.

00:25:04.930 --> 00:25:10.419
You know, when Mum came home, she wasn't quite the same, but she still loved us.

00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:12.761
Can't take that away from her.

00:25:12.781 --> 00:25:15.926
She loved us with a passion, but she wasn't well.

00:25:17.390 --> 00:25:27.806
And even after I got married, me and my ex-husband, we had to move in with us one at a time.

00:25:27.905 --> 00:25:30.268
And then my marriage broke up.

00:25:31.108 --> 00:25:37.154
And I always say, and I'm quite honest with my children, I think that I ignored your dad.

00:25:37.454 --> 00:25:38.276
I neglected him.

00:25:39.396 --> 00:25:42.220
And I put my own family first.

00:25:42.921 --> 00:25:43.761
And that wasn't fair.

00:25:44.582 --> 00:25:45.242
That was cruel.

00:25:46.084 --> 00:25:47.464
And I honestly think that's why.

00:25:47.484 --> 00:25:50.788
He went over to pasture to green, so to speak.

00:25:51.368 --> 00:25:51.588
Yeah.

00:25:52.769 --> 00:25:56.413
Interesting that you can look back on that and, I guess, have that.

00:25:56.738 --> 00:26:19.055
hindsight recognise that I guess but this is only since I've been sober I was going to say I guess that's the thing with sobriety I think you wouldn't be the only person but so many people look back at so many different elements of their life on reflection and start to make not excuses for the way things have gone but in fact maybe accepting truths and I think We can all do it.

00:26:19.075 --> 00:26:25.284
We can all play our part in something negative and not want to accept that we have anything to do with that.

00:26:25.625 --> 00:26:27.646
I can be like, I'm stubborn even in my own marriage.

00:26:27.887 --> 00:26:30.791
I was only talking about this today, something going wrong.

00:26:31.393 --> 00:26:33.276
And me, I didn't do anything wrong.

00:26:33.536 --> 00:26:36.339
And then a day later, I'm like, oh God, yeah, that was on me.

00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:37.101
That's my fault.

00:26:37.320 --> 00:26:39.243
But sometimes in those moments, we don't do it.

00:26:39.284 --> 00:26:46.074
And I guess in terms of alcohol dependency, I can reflect on this in a day or two and realize I've done something wrong.

00:26:46.721 --> 00:27:17.711
I speak to people with dependency and it's not until they go through a sobriety program where they're making amendments where they start to look back at their life and think that was me I did that wrong I could have done this I should have done that and I guess that brings us to this quote again another one that I've got from your diary in my life I've lived I've loved I've lost I've hurt I've trusted I've made mistakes but most of all I've learned Is that something that's happened towards the end?

00:27:18.173 --> 00:27:18.353
Yeah.

00:27:19.314 --> 00:27:20.335
Talk to me about that a little bit.

00:27:21.036 --> 00:27:26.761
Well, as it says, I've lived, I've loved, I've hurt, I've cried.

00:27:27.403 --> 00:27:30.066
Yeah, all them emotions, they're all there.

00:27:31.047 --> 00:27:32.548
But what you do is you block them out.

00:27:33.509 --> 00:27:37.374
You block them out because you know that that's going to work.

00:27:37.834 --> 00:27:38.915
So don't deal with this.

00:27:39.036 --> 00:27:40.176
You don't need to deal with this.

00:27:40.696 --> 00:27:41.597
Just put it out of the bag.

00:27:41.637 --> 00:27:43.160
Just carry on drinking.

00:27:43.800 --> 00:27:44.501
And then when you...

00:27:45.089 --> 00:27:50.696
When you start your sobriety, not straight away, because it's not easy.

00:27:50.817 --> 00:27:52.578
You know, I don't want to paint a rosy-colored...

00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:53.039
Of

00:27:53.059 --> 00:27:53.359
course,

00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:54.382
yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:27:54.541 --> 00:27:54.622
Yeah.

00:27:54.642 --> 00:27:55.623
It's a lot of work, isn't it?

00:27:55.643 --> 00:27:57.085
I don't think people sometimes realize.

00:27:57.105 --> 00:28:05.234
I think that's the reason why relapses and lapses often happen is because, someone said this to me before, is that once they reach sobriety, they felt naked.

00:28:05.875 --> 00:28:07.417
And in a way...

00:28:08.066 --> 00:28:31.578
ashamed because of everything that they'd done someone had put a torch on it and said here's everything that you've just done for the last 30 years and you've taken no responsibility for but here it is and that's why people often end up lapsing and again relapsing and going straight back to it because it's it's hard to accept like you said 30 years or a lifetime of things that have gone wrong and not gone the way that they wanted it to

00:28:31.778 --> 00:28:38.068
yeah yeah but the one thing is Make your apologies for what you've done wrong.

00:28:38.930 --> 00:28:39.691
But mean it.

00:28:40.531 --> 00:28:42.074
Don't just use lip service.

00:28:42.314 --> 00:28:44.596
It's got to come from your heart, which it has.

00:28:45.278 --> 00:28:49.002
And if you really mean it, then it can be forgiven.

00:28:51.465 --> 00:28:58.795
So speaking about how hard sobriety is, another extract here from your diary is, you said the tears, there were plenty.

00:28:59.035 --> 00:29:00.076
Your thoughts were chaos.

00:29:00.696 --> 00:29:02.179
Your actions caused chaos.

00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:05.542
And in fact, you realised that you was the chaos.

00:29:06.605 --> 00:29:09.848
But through hard work and determination, you found peace within yourself.

00:29:12.132 --> 00:29:13.755
Hard work and determination.

00:29:15.036 --> 00:29:23.208
The two things that I don't think people often really think of with sobriety and getting off the drink.

00:29:23.508 --> 00:29:25.550
We were never promised an easy ride.

00:29:25.590 --> 00:29:26.112
None of us.

00:29:27.053 --> 00:29:34.079
But When I went to Foundations of Life, you could either go one day, two days, or three days.

00:29:35.080 --> 00:29:36.163
Excuse me.

00:29:36.763 --> 00:29:38.566
So for six months, I went three days

00:29:38.586 --> 00:29:38.707
a week.

00:29:38.866 --> 00:29:40.269
I knew you were going to say you went three days.

00:29:40.288 --> 00:29:40.429
I could

00:29:40.449 --> 00:29:40.528
tell.

00:29:40.548 --> 00:29:41.931
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:29:41.951 --> 00:30:13.162
And then I used to go to the coffee morning on a Wednesday, Lee's group on a Saturday, and then Jane, she sat us all down and she said to us, right, after we– graduated, right, there's AA, there's SMART, there's Family Matters had just come out and they wanted me and my friend and another chap to do the pilot for it.

00:30:13.342 --> 00:30:14.583
So we agreed to do that.

00:30:15.023 --> 00:30:17.006
Then I've been in Alcohol Recovery.

00:30:17.046 --> 00:30:23.692
At the moment I'm sitting in Alcohol 5, which I love, love the boys.

00:30:26.145 --> 00:30:32.734
But what I did was I took the dates and the times of those groups and I went to them all.

00:30:33.236 --> 00:30:33.316
Yeah.

00:30:33.336 --> 00:30:35.499
And I used to do six groups a week.

00:30:36.339 --> 00:30:45.051
And then I decided, right, I'm going to choose what suits me, what feeds my needs.

00:30:45.472 --> 00:30:46.253
Yeah.

00:30:46.273 --> 00:30:46.354
Yeah.

00:30:46.814 --> 00:31:07.463
And that's what I did because when you go in groups, you need to be comfortable so that if you want to share– you can share and be open on the understanding that it is confidential because some people start off slowly and by the end of it, they're fully open.

00:31:08.045 --> 00:31:19.038
You know, yeah, I think, and I still say this, the groups of what, have helped me through my sobriety.

00:31:19.558 --> 00:31:24.087
And please God, I shall continue to attend them for as long as I can.

00:31:24.428 --> 00:31:26.372
I mean, I've been for treatment this morning.

00:31:26.732 --> 00:31:27.574
Yeah.

00:31:28.737 --> 00:31:32.282
I'll talk to you about the cancer treatment that you went through this morning.

00:31:32.564 --> 00:31:39.396
In terms of going to as many groups as you went to, you started off by going to, I think I worked out then, was that six meetings a week that you'd been going to?

00:31:39.970 --> 00:31:41.434
Are you still going to six meetings a week?

00:31:41.455 --> 00:31:42.419
Are you doing less now?

00:31:42.820 --> 00:31:44.085
I'm doing a bit less now.

00:31:44.887 --> 00:31:47.518
What I do is I don't do anything on a Monday.

00:31:47.538 --> 00:31:50.750
I do the Tuesday group.

00:31:50.945 --> 00:31:52.548
Coffee group on Wednesday.

00:31:52.607 --> 00:31:56.271
Thursday morning, I sit in alcohol five.

00:31:56.311 --> 00:31:58.453
Thursday night, I go to RSM

00:31:59.596 --> 00:32:00.036
meeting.

00:32:00.076 --> 00:32:00.916
What do they give you?

00:32:00.977 --> 00:32:02.499
What do those groups actually give you then?

00:32:02.538 --> 00:32:03.901
What are you getting by attending?

00:32:03.921 --> 00:32:07.203
And why should people be attending recovery groups?

00:32:07.263 --> 00:32:07.724
Structure.

00:32:08.806 --> 00:32:09.866
Is that what your life needed?

00:32:09.926 --> 00:32:10.768
Structure as well?

00:32:11.608 --> 00:32:13.191
Confidence.

00:32:13.211 --> 00:32:13.451
Yeah.

00:32:14.192 --> 00:32:15.432
Confidence to face...

00:32:16.226 --> 00:32:17.827
What life's going to frighten me next.

00:32:19.308 --> 00:32:20.650
And strength.

00:32:23.373 --> 00:32:27.817
I don't, this might sound daft, I don't get the urge to drink anymore.

00:32:28.557 --> 00:32:29.798
Because I know that's a no-no.

00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:34.323
You know, or it might just be really fleeting.

00:32:34.943 --> 00:32:39.989
But it's nothing that, I can walk down and alcohol in the supermarket doesn't bother

00:32:40.689 --> 00:32:40.729
me.

00:32:40.749 --> 00:32:43.071
Because even, to be fair, that's one of the things that's interesting.

00:32:43.172 --> 00:32:44.972
Even when he was talking about the Fosters.

00:32:46.210 --> 00:32:51.478
The way he described it, like cold, you know, and all these words that made it sound really appealing.

00:32:51.557 --> 00:32:59.950
And as someone sat opposite you without ever having an alcohol dependency problem or ever having a problem with alcohol, I'm sat thinking, oh, yeah, that sounds nice.

00:33:00.530 --> 00:33:01.311
I could do with a beer.

00:33:01.952 --> 00:33:03.715
So how are you managing to maintain it?

00:33:03.756 --> 00:33:07.741
Because the way he described it was very almost positive.

00:33:08.193 --> 00:33:10.938
So how were you able to cut that out as a negative thing then?

00:33:11.479 --> 00:33:12.882
Because I wasn't well, but I didn't

00:33:12.942 --> 00:33:14.403
realise how poorly I was.

00:33:14.423 --> 00:33:20.232
All I knew was that I kept getting this gassy belly and I didn't like it.

00:33:20.292 --> 00:33:21.075
I didn't like it at

00:33:21.234 --> 00:33:21.414
all.

00:33:21.494 --> 00:33:29.008
So even though you can talk about it and make it sound appealing, you know, I guess, what will happen if you have that.

00:33:30.209 --> 00:33:30.490
Yeah.

00:33:30.730 --> 00:33:32.353
And you know that you can't just have one, don't

00:33:32.532 --> 00:33:32.633
you?

00:33:32.733 --> 00:33:33.595
Oh, yeah, definitely.

00:33:33.714 --> 00:33:35.298
When did you realise that you was...

00:33:36.321 --> 00:34:29.528
an addict in that sense of the word you can't just have the one because a lot of people more so with alcohol than with heroin and other drugs a lot of people when they get help for alcohol detoxes they might think I've got a dependency my body is physically dependent on it at the moment but I'll go for my alcohol detox I'll come out the other end of it Now my body isn't physically dependent on it, I could just have a couple But they don't realise that couple then turns to, it happened to, there was a guy before, I'll share this story with you He'd been to rehab, he got the train home, the trolley lady comes down on the train, anything from the trolley deals As you'd see in the Harry Potter films, and then anyway, he gets himself, he thinks he's recovered He's got over the physical dependency, gets himself a beer off the trolley, next thing he knows he's off the rails again So it was never about the physical dependency.

00:34:29.608 --> 00:34:33.416
It was all about what was going on in the mental, what was all going up in his mind.

00:34:33.436 --> 00:34:35.838
Because this is very, very cute.

00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:36.681
Yeah.

00:34:36.780 --> 00:34:40.367
So when did you realise that you couldn't just be a person who can have one?

00:34:40.467 --> 00:34:44.693
I think a couple of months in Foundations of Life.

00:34:45.193 --> 00:34:51.224
Was there some, I guess, ambivalence or resistance to the idea that you'd never be able to have a drink again?

00:34:51.724 --> 00:34:54.188
No, there was never any resistance.

00:34:54.289 --> 00:34:54.489
No.

00:34:55.010 --> 00:34:56.231
I think I know

00:34:56.612 --> 00:34:57.353
from what the consultants say.

00:34:57.373 --> 00:35:00.177
Kind of like what you were saying with the cancer and stuff, wasn't it?

00:35:00.197 --> 00:35:02.322
I guess you know, don't you?

00:35:02.342 --> 00:35:02.802
Yeah, you do.

00:35:02.922 --> 00:35:08.891
Obviously, it's hard for me to relate to that completely because my brain isn't wired that way.

00:35:09.432 --> 00:35:16.244
I've got to a point now where I don't really drink, but I often go out if I go.

00:35:16.483 --> 00:35:19.949
So I could have one and then I could be on Cokes after that.

00:35:20.289 --> 00:35:21.090
Because it's more for me.

00:35:21.190 --> 00:35:24.737
I just enjoy the taste of a beer as opposed to enjoy feeling drunk.

00:35:25.958 --> 00:35:26.458
Does that

00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:28.402
make sense?

00:35:28.422 --> 00:35:28.501
Yeah.

00:35:28.822 --> 00:35:30.766
One's not enough and two's too many.

00:35:31.686 --> 00:35:33.510
You must have heard that.

00:35:33.670 --> 00:35:35.552
I've said that one before.

00:35:35.672 --> 00:35:41.402
I love that quote as well because I think it's, for someone with dependency, I think it's so poignant.

00:35:41.782 --> 00:35:42.083
Well,

00:35:42.282 --> 00:35:45.547
I've been in, well, as I say, I do groups.

00:35:46.809 --> 00:35:48.833
And in the last six months...

00:35:49.826 --> 00:35:55.311
I attended one group where somebody had been sober for 10 years.

00:35:55.351 --> 00:35:59.014
And they had to go somewhere.

00:35:59.054 --> 00:36:06.161
And he thought to himself, I can have a pint now.

00:36:06.762 --> 00:36:07.762
It's been 10 years.

00:36:07.782 --> 00:36:11.907
And the company that he was keeping, it'll be all right.

00:36:13.068 --> 00:36:13.768
You know what

00:36:14.248 --> 00:36:14.648
happened?

00:36:15.911 --> 00:36:15.951
Of

00:36:16.050 --> 00:36:16.411
course, yeah.

00:36:16.751 --> 00:36:20.784
I've been in the group where somebody told somebody else, Just have a sip.

00:36:21.306 --> 00:36:22.067
You'll be all right.

00:36:22.086 --> 00:36:22.608
Just a sip.

00:36:23.771 --> 00:36:24.291
What happened?

00:36:25.094 --> 00:36:25.454
Bingo.

00:36:26.938 --> 00:36:37.139
I once watched an interview with Jimmy Greaves and Michael Parkinson because Jimmy Greaves was an alcoholic.

00:36:38.063 --> 00:36:44.295
And Parky asked him, You never go to any of the England functions, do you, Jim?

00:36:45.096 --> 00:36:45.797
And he said, no.

00:36:46.057 --> 00:36:47.260
And he said, can I ask why?

00:36:47.820 --> 00:36:52.949
He said, because there'll always be somebody in there that'll go, Jim, I've bought a pint for you.

00:36:53.530 --> 00:36:56.556
And he said, and if they offered it to me, I'd drink it.

00:36:57.157 --> 00:36:59.382
So he said, I choose not to go.

00:36:59.402 --> 00:36:59.601
Yeah.

00:36:59.943 --> 00:37:01.485
It's like the Thursday group.

00:37:03.108 --> 00:37:03.849
Every so often.

00:37:04.226 --> 00:37:06.009
We all get together and we go for a meal.

00:37:06.349 --> 00:37:06.530
Yeah, yeah.

00:37:06.871 --> 00:37:14.503
And Brian, who facilitates it, he rings the restaurant up where we go in and he tells them what the group is all about.

00:37:14.844 --> 00:37:14.923
Yeah.

00:37:14.943 --> 00:37:18.130
And they make sure that we're away from the bar.

00:37:18.530 --> 00:37:18.751
Yeah, yeah.

00:37:19.072 --> 00:37:28.728
You know, so we've been to Papa's, we've been to Fairmaid's, Newland Avenue.

00:37:29.710 --> 00:37:29.789
Yeah.

00:37:30.146 --> 00:37:30.827
Larkings.

00:37:31.047 --> 00:37:31.327
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:37:31.467 --> 00:37:33.449
You know, we go to various places.

00:37:34.190 --> 00:37:37.375
And we just sit there and we're quite happy with our lime and lemonade.

00:37:37.976 --> 00:37:40.880
You know, and if people want to drink, that's their choice.

00:37:40.900 --> 00:37:40.980
Yeah.

00:37:41.240 --> 00:37:42.302
But we choose not to.

00:37:42.382 --> 00:37:48.289
How do you feel when you do go into these public places, these bars, restaurants, and you see other people drinking?

00:37:48.530 --> 00:37:50.873
Does that do anything for you all?

00:37:51.052 --> 00:37:51.353
No.

00:37:51.793 --> 00:37:51.934
No,

00:37:52.094 --> 00:37:53.096
it doesn't bother me at all.

00:37:53.115 --> 00:37:54.197
Did it make you...

00:37:54.690 --> 00:37:58.876
apprehensive or scared about going to these places at first, that it could have been a trigger for you?

00:37:59.215 --> 00:38:00.137
The first time.

00:38:01.458 --> 00:38:08.347
Because Brian and my friend, they said, oh, come and come up to the bar with us.

00:38:09.128 --> 00:38:10.751
And the barmaid said, what would you like to drink?

00:38:10.771 --> 00:38:12.132
And I went, ah, voila.

00:38:12.434 --> 00:38:13.494
No, I'll have an orange.

00:38:14.677 --> 00:38:15.858
But it's just this.

00:38:15.878 --> 00:38:16.179
Muscle

00:38:16.418 --> 00:38:16.639
memory.

00:38:16.699 --> 00:38:17.481
Yeah, yeah,

00:38:17.780 --> 00:38:17.940
yeah.

00:38:18.521 --> 00:38:21.565
But no, no, no.

00:38:22.146 --> 00:38:30.440
So going back to these groups, because obviously I think you've created an entirely new social circle from attending all these groups that you're attending.

00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:38.753
And it's really positive stuff because I think that's one of the hardest things for people to do when they have had dependency for so long is it's not just giving up the drink.

00:38:38.773 --> 00:38:45.585
I think people often neglect the thought that they're giving up sometimes their entire friendship circle.

00:38:46.286 --> 00:38:46.365
Yeah.

00:38:46.978 --> 00:38:52.264
Now, when I was younger, if I went out with friends and I said, I'm not drinking tonight, it'd be, oh, come on, have a drink, have a drink.

00:38:52.324 --> 00:38:58.594
And I think, I don't know if it's just with age or maturity or whatever it is, but now if I go out with friends and they're having drinks, they say, oh, are you having a drink?

00:38:58.614 --> 00:38:59.375
And I say, oh, what do you want?

00:38:59.474 --> 00:39:00.876
And I say, I'll just have a Coke tonight.

00:39:00.998 --> 00:39:02.900
And there's no, oh, don't be boring.

00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:04.222
There's none of that anymore.

00:39:04.262 --> 00:39:07.246
And I think that's just something that has, I guess, has come with age.

00:39:07.346 --> 00:39:14.215
But for a lot of people, it's hard to get rid of your entire friendship circle, your entire social circle.

00:39:14.295 --> 00:39:15.237
And that's often...

00:39:15.969 --> 00:39:18.612
As we said earlier, sometimes it's about the company you keep.

00:39:19.534 --> 00:39:22.918
So what was that like for you, giving up an old social circle for a new one?

00:39:23.157 --> 00:39:25.661
Or what was that transition like for you?

00:39:26.242 --> 00:39:27.103
Did you even have to do it?

00:39:27.342 --> 00:39:27.583
No,

00:39:27.643 --> 00:39:29.085
not really.

00:39:29.125 --> 00:39:31.427
I'm a very private person.

00:39:32.268 --> 00:39:35.092
The person you see at Renew is not me at home.

00:39:35.452 --> 00:39:36.893
I don't have people in my flat.

00:39:38.115 --> 00:39:40.177
I'm very careful who I give my number to.

00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:43.581
I have a home number and I...

00:39:43.905 --> 00:39:46.289
On important paperwork, yeah.

00:39:47.010 --> 00:39:47.090
Yeah.

00:39:47.110 --> 00:39:54.159
But not, I don't go, if somebody says, can I have your number, I don't give them my landline because that's my privacy.

00:39:54.760 --> 00:39:54.840
Yeah.

00:39:54.860 --> 00:39:57.543
Yeah, and I'm a big one for that privacy.

00:39:57.963 --> 00:40:02.489
You know, and so I go to the groups, we have a laugh, we cry.

00:40:03.050 --> 00:40:05.152
You know, we just share so much.

00:40:06.315 --> 00:40:11.922
And I've got a better circle of friends now than what I had when I was drinking.

00:40:12.161 --> 00:40:18.032
You know, yeah, I've met some really, really lovely people.

00:40:18.974 --> 00:40:32.115
And last year, it was about this time, me and hubby, we went over town, and he said to me, look at that, look at him over there, look at him.

00:40:32.135 --> 00:40:35.460
And I went, he went in the piss head.

00:40:35.501 --> 00:40:38.025
And I went, pardon?

00:40:38.085 --> 00:40:38.206
Pardon?

00:40:38.561 --> 00:40:39.905
He went, well, look at him.

00:40:40.387 --> 00:40:41.068
Excuse me.

00:40:41.869 --> 00:40:42.612
That was me.

00:40:43.534 --> 00:40:44.657
And he said, no, you're different.

00:40:44.717 --> 00:40:45.539
No, I'm not.

00:40:46.461 --> 00:40:48.728
He's no worse than him and I'm no better than him.

00:40:49.168 --> 00:40:51.655
Some of us just scrub up a little bit better.

00:40:51.856 --> 00:40:53.079
And I honestly believe that.

00:40:53.659 --> 00:40:58.413
You know, when you see him over the town, Yeah, the genuine ones I'm talking

00:40:58.534 --> 00:40:59.394
about.

00:40:59.414 --> 00:41:04.282
Yeah, it's an interesting point because, well, it goes back to what we said about stigma, the stereotype.

00:41:04.322 --> 00:41:18.664
And I guess the whole thing of alcohol dependence, if I put you in a row of people and they said, pick out the one that's got alcohol dependency, on face value of looking at you, I'd be like, it won't be her.

00:41:18.704 --> 00:41:20.288
She just looks like a sweet older lady.

00:41:20.447 --> 00:41:22.090
Yeah, exactly, yeah.

00:41:22.371 --> 00:41:23.793
But then if I saw someone in his...

00:41:24.418 --> 00:41:28.264
trackies and baggy pants and, you know, looking a bit, you'd be like, oh, it's him.

00:41:28.503 --> 00:41:29.826
And it's not necessarily the coach.

00:41:29.905 --> 00:41:35.414
I guarantee if me and you were stood next to each other, someone would point me over you as the person with problems with alcohol.

00:41:35.715 --> 00:41:37.056
Well, we once got

00:41:37.117 --> 00:41:42.144
told a story about a prison cell, a police cell.

00:41:43.567 --> 00:41:48.193
And there was a young lad in there and he was in trouble and they called for his solicitor.

00:41:49.094 --> 00:41:51.918
And when the solicitor walked in, they could smell alcohol.

00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:53.521
It wasn't the boy.

00:41:53.793 --> 00:41:55.135
It was the solicitor.

00:41:55.577 --> 00:41:57.079
It knows no boundaries.

00:41:57.739 --> 00:42:03.648
And if you let it, it will just creep in and grow and grow and grow.

00:42:04.690 --> 00:42:05.731
My daughter doesn't drink.

00:42:06.231 --> 00:42:08.074
My eldest girl, she had a drink problem.

00:42:08.735 --> 00:42:12.940
And I went to Reno at Brian's home as I was attending the meetings.

00:42:13.561 --> 00:42:18.688
Now she doesn't drink because they gave me numbers back home.

00:42:19.202 --> 00:42:43.190
that she could reach and now she does meetings by video link yeah which is brilliant because at one stage she rung me and she said oh mum I'm coming up to see you and I'm bringing vodka and this was my honest reply to you come up here with vodka not only will I throw you out I'll throw the vodka out with you and I was serious and she knew I was serious yeah

00:42:44.572 --> 00:42:51.737
interesting So going back to the cancer diagnosis, you said you had treatment today?

00:42:52.018 --> 00:42:52.798
Yeah.

00:42:52.858 --> 00:42:53.639
Radiotherapy.

00:42:56.563 --> 00:42:57.324
Talk to me about that.

00:42:57.704 --> 00:42:58.967
Obviously, I've not gone through it myself.

00:42:59.047 --> 00:43:04.373
I'm sure plenty of people listen, haven't experienced radiotherapy or treatment for cancer.

00:43:04.393 --> 00:43:08.639
Obviously, that's the only treatment that you're available to have.

00:43:09.561 --> 00:43:10.081
What's it like?

00:43:11.554 --> 00:43:13.257
I've got three little tattoos.

00:43:13.797 --> 00:43:13.878
Yeah.

00:43:13.898 --> 00:43:15.940
One here and one here and one here.

00:43:16.742 --> 00:43:17.523
They line it up.

00:43:18.083 --> 00:43:19.445
The tattoos will never go.

00:43:19.686 --> 00:43:20.467
Yeah, yeah.

00:43:20.989 --> 00:43:26.777
The oncologist said to me, oh, a lot of people have butterflies made out of the tattoos.

00:43:26.878 --> 00:43:28.179
And I said to my daughter, good grief.

00:43:28.579 --> 00:43:30.182
I don't want a big butterfly.

00:43:30.864 --> 00:43:31.905
No, but seriously.

00:43:32.626 --> 00:43:37.373
And what they do is every day you go, they put a pen mark.

00:43:37.730 --> 00:43:40.713
They measure down to the navel.

00:43:41.253 --> 00:43:48.021
Then they put a breathing machine on me, like it's only a little square box, to see how my breathing is.

00:43:48.061 --> 00:43:57.210
And then the machine, you've got a big round one, and then you've got one either side here, and then you've got one in the ceiling.

00:43:58.211 --> 00:44:03.556
And what happens is it goes round and round and round.

00:44:04.577 --> 00:44:05.619
comes to the side.

00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:09.123
Then the big one comes down and it's about that much above you.

00:44:09.164 --> 00:44:12.309
And it goes round and round and round.

00:44:12.329 --> 00:44:17.635
And then these come in again and they go up and down, up and down.

00:44:18.297 --> 00:44:25.005
And they say it lasts 15 minutes, but it lasts seven minutes by the time you get yourself in.

00:44:25.987 --> 00:44:28.650
You get yourself prepared and then they've got to prepare you.

00:44:29.331 --> 00:44:32.851
And the more I'm going, The more quicker it seems to go.

00:44:33.333 --> 00:44:38.478
But I have noticed that the machine's gone from up there now to down here.

00:44:38.557 --> 00:44:39.298
And they're marvellous,

00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:40.480
absolutely marvellous.

00:44:40.541 --> 00:44:41.402
Do you feel any different after?

00:44:41.501 --> 00:44:43.684
Because I know very little about radiotherapy.

00:44:43.704 --> 00:44:44.105
Shattered.

00:44:44.625 --> 00:44:44.764
Yeah.

00:44:45.166 --> 00:44:46.527
Absolutely shattered.

00:44:46.586 --> 00:44:47.068
How come?

00:44:47.148 --> 00:44:49.269
How does it take you out?

00:44:49.289 --> 00:44:54.215
Well, because the radiation, it attacks the good parts of your body.

00:44:54.436 --> 00:44:55.536
So you just feel drained.

00:44:55.556 --> 00:44:57.719
Yeah, and also it dehydrates you.

00:44:58.740 --> 00:44:59.621
We all carry these.

00:45:01.090 --> 00:45:01.565
Huh?

00:45:02.210 --> 00:45:02.951
and I

00:45:03.010 --> 00:45:04.791
call it is that what they give you a little water

00:45:05.612 --> 00:45:21.065
bottle yeah and I call it I don't call it the cancer group I call it the water bottle group because everyone's just walking around with a little water bottle because they're all dehydrated yeah and I'm not taking the mick out of the unit no it's just adding a sense of humour it's better than oh I'm going to the cancer unit

00:45:21.106 --> 00:45:27.592
today you know it's a bit softer well that's but again it goes back to that little chip of personality that you've got and you know making everything you know more

00:45:28.152 --> 00:45:28.773
and if you can't

00:45:28.813 --> 00:45:29.853
laugh at yourself you can't

00:45:29.893 --> 00:45:45.329
laugh at anybody exactly yeah but the one thing that I really have learnt before you judge anybody look inside yourself look inside yourself and dig deep and don't be a sheep find your own green grass

00:45:45.990 --> 00:46:01.644
I like that so you just said then about before you judge others dig deep and it takes us to this little part of your diary here it says be mindful of others Never say never, because sadly, to say once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.

00:46:02.346 --> 00:46:08.675
So I'm still on my journey, only this time I'm aware of what I can lose and the price that will be paid.

00:46:09.416 --> 00:46:13.141
So thank you, Renew, for giving me the right tools for me.

00:46:15.286 --> 00:46:18.250
Renew will always be in my heart.

00:46:18.811 --> 00:46:21.594
It's a little place tucked away there.

00:46:22.016 --> 00:46:23.197
Do you know about Wahiba?

00:46:23.818 --> 00:46:24.239
The nurse?

00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:24.579
Yeah.

00:46:24.780 --> 00:46:25.081
Tell me.

00:46:26.177 --> 00:46:28.260
She drove me crazy.

00:46:29.041 --> 00:46:31.445
She drove me absolutely crazy.

00:46:31.465 --> 00:46:38.954
27 telephone calls, visits to house, wouldn't open the door.

00:46:39.554 --> 00:46:41.998
Then I got taken into hospital, right?

00:46:43.420 --> 00:46:44.902
And she plagued me.

00:46:45.463 --> 00:46:48.286
She was like a dog with a bone.

00:46:48.927 --> 00:46:50.268
And then I had to go into respite.

00:46:50.989 --> 00:46:51.891
And she'd come and see me.

00:46:52.371 --> 00:46:54.494
Ah, ah, ah.

00:46:54.690 --> 00:46:59.817
And she said, please, Ruth, just give it one more chance.

00:46:59.896 --> 00:47:00.757
Just give it a chance.

00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:03.041
I went, I'll think about it.

00:47:03.842 --> 00:47:05.885
So over the weekend, I went, ah, that's not true.

00:47:06.226 --> 00:47:07.447
I got a phone call from Jane.

00:47:08.128 --> 00:47:11.853
And she said, we've got to offer you a place at Reno on Monday.

00:47:11.934 --> 00:47:12.614
Would you like to come?

00:47:13.155 --> 00:47:14.056
I said, yeah, go on then.

00:47:14.878 --> 00:47:17.802
And on the Monday morning, I was getting myself ready to go.

00:47:18.322 --> 00:47:19.284
And Wahiba rung me.

00:47:19.965 --> 00:47:20.485
And she said...

00:47:20.706 --> 00:47:23.451
Morning Ruth, she said, I'm coming to see you today.

00:47:23.831 --> 00:47:24.992
I went, oh, no, you're not.

00:47:25.233 --> 00:47:26.414
I'm going to redo it.

00:47:26.516 --> 00:47:27.717
I was so...

00:47:28.358 --> 00:47:29.721
And she couldn't believe it.

00:47:30.422 --> 00:47:39.317
And I always say to Wahiba, she was the lady that saved my life because of her consistently nagging.

00:47:40.057 --> 00:47:40.759
And she knows.

00:47:41.260 --> 00:47:44.443
I said to her, I only went just to shut you up.

00:47:45.085 --> 00:47:46.867
But look what you've done to me now.

00:47:47.748 --> 00:47:51.291
But no, Wahiba and I are really, really, I love that woman.

00:47:51.391 --> 00:47:51.612
Yeah,

00:47:52.132 --> 00:47:52.353
yeah,

00:47:52.893 --> 00:47:53.193
yeah.

00:47:53.815 --> 00:47:57.699
No, it's nice because I think it's just hearing these positive stories.

00:47:57.778 --> 00:48:07.309
And we don't often get to see, as part of our job and what we do, we don't often get to see the ins and outs of the front lines until, often until someone's in this point in recovery.

00:48:07.590 --> 00:48:09.052
That's when we get to hear these stories.

00:48:09.813 --> 00:48:10.454
And I know...

00:48:11.202 --> 00:48:14.246
The staff that work at Renew truly do care about people.

00:48:14.286 --> 00:48:25.061
It's often quite negative press that we sometimes get because at the end of the day, you know, we have to make quite hard decisions about people and what we do.

00:48:25.163 --> 00:48:29.889
And we'll always almost be seen as, in some way, the enemy when people are going through treatment.

00:48:29.949 --> 00:48:34.215
It's not until people get recovery where they kind of look back on what we do.

00:48:34.275 --> 00:48:36.239
And Hans saying it's the same with you and Wahiba.

00:48:36.478 --> 00:48:41.981
At first you thought she was annoying, she was a Like you said, you know, a dog with a bone, but now you look back on it and think she saved your life.

00:48:42.201 --> 00:48:42.762
Yes, she did.

00:48:42.802 --> 00:48:44.344
And it's often, we don't, you know.

00:48:44.985 --> 00:48:46.610
And she knows because I've told her.

00:48:46.630 --> 00:48:46.710
Good.

00:48:46.869 --> 00:48:49.235
And I don't, that's probably the best thing she'll ever hear.

00:48:50.016 --> 00:48:51.038
I think that's absolutely fantastic.

00:48:51.057 --> 00:48:51.277
And she

00:48:51.318 --> 00:48:52.179
did save my life.

00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:52.481
Good.

00:48:52.760 --> 00:48:53.021
Because

00:48:53.101 --> 00:48:55.425
she was there digging, digging,

00:48:55.445 --> 00:48:55.666
digging.

00:48:55.686 --> 00:48:55.806
Yeah.

00:48:56.027 --> 00:48:56.228
Yeah.

00:48:56.909 --> 00:48:57.110
Good.

00:48:57.601 --> 00:49:01.326
I'm really glad to hear it.

00:49:01.367 --> 00:49:05.231
Before we finish, Ruth, I've got a series of 10 questions that I ask all our guests.

00:49:05.592 --> 00:49:07.954
Not necessarily related to what we're doing, but quick-fighting questions.

00:49:08.996 --> 00:49:11.038
So my first question is, what is your favourite word?

00:49:13.961 --> 00:49:15.302
What is my favourite word?

00:49:15.623 --> 00:49:15.804
No.

00:49:15.844 --> 00:49:17.786
What is your least favourite word?

00:49:18.206 --> 00:49:18.467
Yes.

00:49:20.289 --> 00:49:23.813
What excites you creatively, spiritually or emotionally?

00:49:24.454 --> 00:49:25.815
Seeing other people happy.

00:49:26.496 --> 00:49:27.438
What doesn't excite you?

00:49:28.097 --> 00:49:32.902
when people are down and they break their sobriety.

00:49:33.023 --> 00:49:33.684
That really gets...

00:49:34.364 --> 00:49:35.065
I'm not angry.

00:49:35.106 --> 00:49:36.067
Don't think that.

00:49:36.266 --> 00:49:36.668
Yeah, yeah.

00:49:36.688 --> 00:49:40.311
But I'm just sad for them because I think you can do it.

00:49:40.532 --> 00:49:41.273
You can do this.

00:49:41.313 --> 00:49:42.153
You've got to grab it.

00:49:42.755 --> 00:49:44.456
Get that knot in your stomach.

00:49:45.378 --> 00:49:47.840
What's your favourite curse word?

00:49:49.722 --> 00:49:50.023
Fuck.

00:49:50.664 --> 00:49:51.083
Sorry.

00:49:51.304 --> 00:49:51.744
You asked.

00:49:52.105 --> 00:49:52.505
I asked.

00:49:52.565 --> 00:49:53.586
Don't apologise.

00:49:54.447 --> 00:49:56.349
What sound or noise do you love?

00:49:57.217 --> 00:49:59.260
I love the sound of the birds in the morning.

00:49:59.721 --> 00:50:01.302
That's the first thing I noticed.

00:50:01.322 --> 00:50:01.561
Nice.

00:50:02.222 --> 00:50:03.304
What sound or noise do you hear?

00:50:05.606 --> 00:50:06.788
Sound of a can opening.

00:50:08.989 --> 00:50:11.773
What profession would you have liked to have attempted in your life?

00:50:11.913 --> 00:50:13.273
What would you have liked to have done as a job?

00:50:13.715 --> 00:50:14.335
Seriously?

00:50:14.715 --> 00:50:14.795
Yeah.

00:50:14.815 --> 00:50:16.818
I'd have liked to have been an HGV driver.

00:50:17.077 --> 00:50:17.518
Really?

00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:18.880
Yeah.

00:50:18.900 --> 00:50:19.601
I would have, yeah.

00:50:20.161 --> 00:50:20.762
I can see you.

00:50:20.922 --> 00:50:21.583
Yeah.

00:50:21.603 --> 00:50:22.784
In a big Eddie Sturgeon.

00:50:23.284 --> 00:50:23.545
Trucking, yeah.

00:50:23.565 --> 00:50:24.606
Yeah, trucking now.

00:50:25.762 --> 00:50:27.166
What profession would you not like to do?

00:50:27.226 --> 00:50:28.369
Worst job you could imagine doing?

00:50:29.773 --> 00:50:30.356
By sleeping.

00:50:33.143 --> 00:50:38.280
And if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?

00:50:38.920 --> 00:50:40.445
Taught you a lesson, didn't I, kid?

00:50:41.090 --> 00:50:41.610
Brilliant.

00:50:41.891 --> 00:50:43.492
Thank you very much for coming on the podcast.

00:50:43.572 --> 00:50:44.733
No, you're very welcome.

00:50:44.873 --> 00:50:46.054
I've really enjoyed it actually.

00:50:46.074 --> 00:50:46.454
I'm good.

00:50:46.755 --> 00:50:47.014
I'm glad.

00:50:47.775 --> 00:50:52.920
And if you've enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People podcast then please check out our other episodes and hit that subscribe button.

00:50:53.440 --> 00:51:00.286
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00:51:00.686 --> 00:51:03.289
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00:51:03.809 --> 00:51:10.155
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00:51:10.375 --> 00:51:19.061
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