Nov. 13, 2025

Taz Hussain: Identity, Islam & Addiction - Racism, Arranged Marriage, Culture vs. Religion, Prison & Redemption

Taz Hussain: Identity, Islam & Addiction - Racism, Arranged Marriage, Culture vs. Religion, Prison & Redemption
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Taz Hussain: Identity, Islam & Addiction - Racism, Arranged Marriage, Culture vs. Religion, Prison & Redemption
Taz Hussain: Identity, Islam & Addiction - Racism, Arranged Marriage, Culture vs. Religion, Prison & Redemption
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Season 1

Born in Britain to Pakistani parents, Taz grew up between cultures - facing racism, violence, and confusion over faith and identity. 

Forced into an arranged marriage, his life descended into addiction and prison before self-reflection, therapy, and honesty led him toward redemption. A raw story of culture, trauma, and rebuilding with compassion.

In this conversation, Taz unpacks the clash between culture and religion, the weight of expectation, and how misunderstanding faith can fracture generations. He speaks candidly about anger, guilt, and forgiveness - and how recovery begins when we stop surviving and start understanding who we really are.

Click here to text our host, Matt, directly!

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🔗 Then share this episode with someone you know who could benefit from it.

Browse the full archive at 👉 www.believeinpeoplepodcast.com

This podcast is a toolkit for recovery & resilience. Whether you’re in recovery or seeking to understand addiction, there’s something here for everyone.

If you want to change your direction, grow as a person, and live life to its full potential, Change Grow Live is here to help you. We’re here for you if you need help with challenges including drugs or alcohol, trouble with housing, domestic abuse, or your mental and physical wellbeing. Change Grow Live services are free and confidential. Click the link below to refer yourself to your local service.

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📩 Podcast Contact: robbie@believeinpeoplepodcast.com
🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” by Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)

🔗 Listen & Subscribe
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...

00:00 - Welcome And Taz’s Story Framed

00:41 - Growing Up Between Cultures And Racism

07:40 - Violence, Bullying, And Identity Conflict

16:20 - First Drinks, Double Standards, And Escapism

23:52 - Heroin’s Grip And Learning About Rattles

29:15 - Cold Turkey Cycles And Despair

34:34 - Arranged Marriage, Control, And Collapse

43:05 - Father, Trauma, And A Hard Won Reconciliation

52:28 - Overprotection, Sisters, And Unchecked Rage

59:44 - Prison Time, Structure, And Strength

01:05:06 - Naming The Trigger And Leaving The Marriage

01:10:20 - Finding Recovery: Groups, NA, And Purpose

WEBVTT

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This is a renewed original recording.

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Hello and welcome to Believe in People, a two-time Radio Academy Award nominated and British podcast award-winning series about all things addiction, recovery, and stigma.

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My name is Matthew Butler, and I am your host, and as I like to say, your facilitator.

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Today I'm with Taz, a British-born Pakistani Muslim whose life takes us deep into the questions of identity, culture, faith, addiction, and recovery.

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Taz grew up in the north of England during the 80s, a time when racism was open, violent, and shaping.

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Caught between two worlds, he was raised in a Pakistani Muslim home while trying to belong in a predominantly white brain.

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That conflict of identity would follow him into adulthood through anger, addiction and prison.

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In this episode, we talk about what it really means to grow up between cultures, the difference between religion and culture, and how those lines are so often blared, especially around topics like arranged marriage and expectation.

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Taz opens up about the harm of confusion, intergenerational trauma, the power of forgiveness, and the process of rebuilding through faith and recovery.

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We begin our conversation today by talking about belonging.

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It was extremely difficult.

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A lot of racism back in the day.

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I mean, it was it was horrendous to be honest with you.

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And uh so yeah, uh it we it was it was confusing at the best of times, and obviously there were other issues going on with myself and my my family background and whatnot, but growing up when there was NF about and the punks and whatnot, and uh growing up in you know the late 70s and early 80s, extremely difficult.

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Extremely difficult.

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What kind of environment did you grow up in?

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Like the in terms like the family school, the neighborhood, what what was that like?

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So, yeah, the the the neighborhood was just a just a normal neighborhood, the family environment.

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I come from a single parent.

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My father, may God rest his soul, had divorced and he he was uh he was a single parent.

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He was a working man, we hardly ever saw him.

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And for the first uh ten odd years of my childhood, we had my grandmother was taking care of me.

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He went out with with someone, uh a lady, a lovely lady called Mary, Irish Lady, she brought us up for a little while, and so it was kind of uh to be honest with you, when I look back at it and I can I can visualize it, it was almost surreal, to be honest with you.

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I could at that particular moment in time I could I didn't know what to make of it.

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I knew what not to do and who to avoid and where not to go, kind of thing.

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But we had our own little air area, uh a very small Asian community, maybe a couple of streets, and yeah, and that was it, and we kind of kept to ourselves.

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And every now and again we were told to go in.

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A crowd has come along, and you know, they go around smashing windows.

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So as a child, as a child, uh yeah, it was frightening.

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Did you know when that was happening as a child, why it was happening?

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Did you know what okay?

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Of course, yeah.

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What sort of age do you start to become aware of that and learn about that?

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Yeah, uh to to be honest with you, it it was from the day that go, as far as I can remember, we knew to avoid and I and I d I do not like using the colours.

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We avoid white people, yeah.

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That's how it was.

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Avoid them, they're off their heads kind of thing, and they're dangerous.

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And so I grew up in that environment.

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Right across us was uh what do you call it, a fire brigade.

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And every year they did events, like a community event.

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And I walked in there one day and I where they have the big water tubs and whatnot.

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I was thrown in there and I almost drowned.

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And you know, it was that by other kids?

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No, it was by it was by the white white white lads and and and in the in a group because they thought it was funny kind of thing, and uh and I I never went near that place again.

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That's heartbreaking.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Because you won't forget that, do you?

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That never that that that'll that will that'll always stick with you.

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Yeah, of course, yeah.

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So it sounds like you obviously you're growing up there in almost two different worlds.

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It's okay saying like avoid the white people, but you you're growing up in a predominantly at the time, especially a white country.

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How did that how did that work for you in terms of like do you know being seen and being understood in both of these worlds?

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To be honest with you, it took a a long while.

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It was only until I got to high school where I kind of started looking around and thinking, this is not right.

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You know what I mean?

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And I'm gonna make a stance.

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I almost rebelled against it and you know, I kind of stood up for myself.

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Violence kind of took over.

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Yeah, that's how it was.

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It was it was a case of us against them.

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Yeah.

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And for for years I I had this concept of, you know, that it is, you know, they're the enemy, kind of thing.

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And and and looking back at it now, kind of thing, it would I have would I have uh done it differently or had my thought process be different?

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I don't think so.

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Because I I wasn't unaware, I wasn't developed as a person, I was still finding my way.

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I was talking about this earlier, you know, at a very, very early age, you know, we were it was a very confusing time for us, you know, and and it it was like almost you know, like who are we?

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What what what what do we stand for?

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We've got the our our our fathers and forefathers came into this country in the 50s and 60s and they drummed this ethos, you know, that we have to uh you know kind of work and stick to our religion, but it wasn't as simple as that.

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We were out on the streets, yeah, you know what I mean, and we have when we were looking around, they were set in a certain way, but we are no my culture is not Pakistani, my culture is English, yeah.

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That's it, isn't it?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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You because you are it's I guess this is what's really interesting because I always say this, you know, in terms of like, I mean, I I've I've talked about like in terms of myself, am I a product of my parents or am I a product of my environment and my friends?

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And I always say I feel like I'm more a product of my friends and that environment than I was the environment that I necessarily grew up in.

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And I suppose for you, obviously, with this home life being, you know, Pakistani culture, but your peers and the people you're growing up around and the cultures you're sort of mingling in are gonna be British, so that must be like really confusing, I think, as a as a teenager when when your peers can do things that maybe you're not allowed to do that your parents may frown upon, and you do things that your friends may think, you know, why is why why is he doing that sort of thing?

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You know, it must be it must be really confusing.

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Extremely confusing.

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But the thing is, I I kind of brought the mould, whereas the traditional Pakistani lad will stick to the his own kind.

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My best friend was called Lee Langford and I I we had an 18th do, and I were really close with the family.

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Even growing up, I didn't I was kind of kind of I don't know whether I w whether it's the right thing to say.

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I was kind of attracted to the other side kind of thing.

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So I I I never kind of, you know, like or you know, I I quickly got over it and my mind was open and my heart was open from the day get-go.

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So right across there was a young lad, I forget his name now, and his mum, she brought me, you know, a train set, and we used to play together, and uh David or I can't remember.

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So I kind of moved away from the traditional Asians and whatnot, and uh so you know I because I I couldn't see any different.

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I couldn't see and I got warmth.

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Yeah, I got warmth from that.

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Can you can you remember like the first turn, you know, obviously growing up with like you know, stay away from the white people and and can you remember your sort of first interactions or your first positive interactions with with say a white person that kind of really changed your outlook and made you question kind of what it is that your parents and your family was telling you?

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Of course, yeah, teachers.

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Yeah, it was the teachers, you know, and again I must admit that some of the teachers in how I'm talking about primary school here, but moving forward, it I don't know to be honest with you.

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It was I it I knew what we were told was kind of you know uh stay away, but uh I it didn't sink in.

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If that makes any sense, yeah, because I think it sometimes you know if someone is dangerous or not.

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You you have that instinct, yes, of course you do.

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It's quite easy.

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You know, you say about you know some of the teachers and and even some of the friends that you made, you can tell if someone has malicious intent or not.

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Not always, but I think for for the most part, you know.

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Yeah, it's a good feeling.

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It is, you got that good feeling, and I imagine that starts to make you make you question things.

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And I think looking at as you got older, in terms of like finding your identity, you mentioned the teachers, you mentioned a couple of friends, but who were the people or influences that shaped you during those teenage years?

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I think to be honest with you, I was a bit of a because so we we we have to go back to my childhood and how I was brought up, kind of thing, and being confused, uh, abandonment issues, the mother not being there, looking for an answer, kind of thing.

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There's gotta be something out there that's better than what's going on right now in my life, kind of thing.

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And I just kind of plodded along, to be honest with you.

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Uh and it was almost wow, you know what?

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Think it was almost I was kind of directed uh you know uh on a spiritual level.

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I did not understand that at the time.

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I was guided towards people, but not but not colour or creed.

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I was guided and moulded and put in positions, and for me at a really, really early age, I I got over it.

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But at the same time, I was still connected to the Asian community, and it was us against them, so I was battling that aspect as well with my teenage age, I was in a gang kind of thing, and you know, and uh and then we we we it was it was mixed, it was a mixed gang kind of thing, so you know it was but I didn't really pay much attention to it.

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I was at high school I was bullied a lot, I was called B A Bracchus because I was the only Asian guy Asian guy there, kind of thing, and I kind of took it first year, second year, third year, and then something happened as an apt.

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Yeah, I thought, you know what?

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No, pollux to this, excuse my language, kind of thing.

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Yeah, and and I I started fighting back and I fought, then I fought uh because of what was going on, and my I and God rest his soul for for whatever reasons, I was brought up very, very harshly.

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And he he was battling through his own struggles, and he will he had one foot in this country and he had one foot in back home where he came from, so he was supporting you know two massive families, and so it was extremely difficult for him.

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I do understand he could not regulate his emotions.

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The only way he could regulate his emotion was through anger, and I was subjected to that anger, and because I did not know how to regulate my emotions, I didn't know how didn't know how to cry.

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He thought he took that as a uh as being rebellious or arrogant, if you want to use that word, and I was subjected to that physical violence on a horrendous level.

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And how long did that go on for?

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This went on to my uh until I was the teenage years, up until the end of teenage years.

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It's continued.

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Uh and you know, I was in conflict with myself, I I rebelled against him, I I almost at one point I I I hated him.

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I absolutely hated him.

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But my culture and my religion is telling me, no, this is wrong.

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No matter what your father says, your parents say, you keep your head down, you take it on the chin.

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So this was that internal battle battle that was going on within me, kind of thing.

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So and that kind of drove me into the madness kind of thing, you know what I mean?

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It was almost kind of wow.

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It I mean, looking back at it now, it was kind of almost uh, you know, like a destructive, you know, it I was on a path of destruction.

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It was almost like, you know, okay, you know what, is that how it is?

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Fuck everyone.

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Yeah, you know, I don't give a shit.

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Yeah.

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And I turned into this, and it grew.

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This this hatred and this this resentment and this nastiness inside me just grew and grew.

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And at one point I I didn't I wasn't bothered if I lived or not.

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And I I was known.

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I was known as this crazy person.

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I was known as I'll keep away from him.

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I it for me, I was already dead.

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I just didn't give a shit.

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I genuinely did not care.

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I didn't care whether I lived or die.

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If you crossed my path and you looked at me in a funny way, you was getting put down one way or the other.

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And and and you know what, I it's just I don't know, I don't know how I got here to be honest with you.

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I don't know how I'm sat here talking to you.

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No, because there's there's a lot of there's a lot of things to unpick there, and I think I mean I'm almost metaphorically picturing like an elastic band, elastic band there's so much pulled to them, but you pulled them so far, they are gonna snap.

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I think based on on what you were subjected to by your dad as a child, I think looking at you as elastic man, of course, yeah, of course you're gonna snap.

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And then because you have this culture of uh respect your elders, respect your father, it's like this anger now, where where do you channel it to?

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Well, it's gonna get it's gonna be misplaced, it's not gonna be at the person who is making you angry, yeah, it's gonna come out at school to your peers, yeah, uh it's gonna come out to society, yeah, and you're gonna almost internalise it as well to the point of self-destruction, which sounds like that's what was happening.

00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:17.679
So you mentioned then about being known as someone to know with alcohol problems.

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When did when was you first introduced to alcohol?

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Because as far like I I've I have a Muslim family myself, and and you know, for as long as I've known, alcohol is what they're to haram.

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Haram, yeah.

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So it's alcohol and drugs, yeah.

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Do you know what I mean?

00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:41.679
So for for for you obviously to go and use substances like alcohol again when culturally it's a massive no.

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How did that happen?

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When was you first introduced to it and what attracted you to it?

00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:51.120
So the first time I ever used alcohol was uh when I was 17.

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17, I can't but particularly remember a moment uh of uh drinking and and somebody offered me a pint of lager, which I found disgusting to me.

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It was horrible.

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And then someone offered me uh spirits, and that kind of did the job for me to be honest with you.

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Uh my 18th birthday, I was bladded, you know what I mean.

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Uh and Teresa, a lovely lady, her son Lee Langford, they actually booked a uh a pub out, a room in the pub, and you know, I was quite close to them, you know, you you know what I mean, and and so yeah, I I kind of morphed into uh this Western young lad, still with massive uh uh identity issues and whatnot.

00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:43.759
Uh and uh yeah, I I I kind of broke away from that uh cultural side, but I still had to go home.

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That's it as well, and I think you know, alcohol especially, you know, if in your own culture it is, you know, haram, then you are going to be more attra as you said, be more attracted to this opposite culture based on not just what it's offering but how it's making you feel.

00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:04.399
And everyone that takes alcohol, especially at the beginning, it makes them feel good.

00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:06.320
I must stress one thing though.

00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:09.840
I mean, my elders, they were in the freaking pub.

00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:10.639
Oh, was they?

00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:12.000
They were in the pub.

00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:13.440
Yeah, they were in the pub.

00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:18.320
Nice, they they were in the pub, so we were told one thing, yeah, they were doing another.

00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:20.480
Yeah, do as I say, not as I do, sort of thing.

00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:21.440
Do you know what I mean?

00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:23.600
And so I thought, what's going on here?

00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:25.200
So I thought, you know what I mean?

00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:27.600
So again, it was extremely confusing.

00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:31.360
Yeah, it's just gonna add to that more identity crisis, isn't it?

00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:31.919
What can I do?

00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:32.879
What am I not allowed to do?

00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:37.759
Yeah, so I I don't know, at some point I just kind of switched off.

00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:46.960
I got kind of switched off from you know, but it inherently deep down and knew what was right and what was wrong.

00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:52.639
I had that sense of what's the word I'm looking for now, consciousness, you know what I mean?

00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:54.639
You know, I can't do this.

00:16:55.279 --> 00:17:04.160
But at some point, at some point I snapped, I switched, you know, and I became this character.

00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:19.599
And as people would talk about me, I would feed off that and I it it morphed into something, you know, like almost a monster, the part that I had to play, kind of thing, and this went on for quite a long time actually.

00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:37.759
Well, I I think I mean from from what I'm getting from your story so far, you know, you're this little kid who was thrown in the water, yeah, he was you know bullied, and there must be something internal that that that whatever age you're at is growing up to think I am never gonna be that kid who is gonna get thrown in that water again.

00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:39.359
Yeah, yeah, do you know what I mean?

00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:49.279
You you you're putting yourself in that position now to it's almost like you're protecting you in a child almost by adding this layer to it of of this you know really you know tough guy personality.

00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:54.480
Yes, absolutely bang on, hit the nail on the head, and I've been doing it for decades.

00:17:54.960 --> 00:18:06.559
It's only uh recently uh I I I was uh involved in uh in a group therapy called Deep, which is based in Blackburn, and they unraveled me and they got to that inner child, yeah.

00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:09.920
You know what I mean, and it was extremely emotional.

00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:10.720
What can you imagine?

00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:12.480
Extremely emotional.

00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:19.680
I I at one point a good friend of mine now, James is called he says, Can you see yourself as that child?

00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:21.759
And what would you like to say to him?

00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:23.920
I hate it when people ask things like that that's it.

00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:24.480
You know what?

00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:25.920
And I just brought down, yeah.

00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:27.039
I broke down.

00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:28.960
I'm I'm getting emotional, yeah.

00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:29.920
You know what I mean?

00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.920
Just thinking about it kind of thing, but that was the key.

00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:36.000
I needed that, yeah.

00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:44.880
I needed to see that, I visualised it, I visualised myself at that age, being bullied, being coming home and being battered.

00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:56.799
I mean, I do not want to get into detail, I mean black and blue, you know what I mean, and uh and and and he said and he said to me, What would you what would you say to that child now?

00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:02.079
You know what?

00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:06.079
I I'd hug that child and say, you know what, it's gonna be okay.

00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:08.880
I still feel it.

00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:11.920
And it's power, and that's never gonna go away from me.

00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:12.720
Nah, I don't think it's a big thing.

00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:16.000
Never it won't, it's gonna it's gonna stay that's gonna stay.

00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:19.279
But that the the thing is with that, that's my power.

00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:20.559
Yeah, I get that.

00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:21.599
That's my power.

00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:24.319
Do it doing it for doing it for the doing it for your child.

00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:26.640
And no one's gonna take that away from me.

00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:27.440
No one.

00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:32.240
This is why I do what I do, this is why I go above and beyond now.

00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:34.400
This is why I'll never judge anyone.

00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:46.960
This is why this is why I will listen to anyone and in anything, and not be judgmental and not be and not have that thing, you know what I mean, and you know, because I went through it.

00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:57.759
I I think as well, when when we look at these things, you know, I mean, you the this this uncovering of this kind of sounds like you know, this emotional unraveling sounds like a almost like a recent thing, and I think we behave in our teens.

00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:04.240
It is I mean we we behave in our teenage years, we behave in our 20s, and and even bit beyond there, yeah.

00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:14.319
Kind of just be not necessarily knowing why we're behaving the way we are behaving, but there is that deep-rooted reason for it, much like much like yourself.

00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:18.480
But sometimes like I mean, I've been listening to you for what, maybe 20 minutes, half an hour now.

00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:20.319
I'm piecing the dots together already.

00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:24.079
Yeah, but it's probably taken you 40 or plus years, do you know, to to do that?

00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:24.880
Do you know what I mean?

00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:30.079
So we just we it's real easy to kind of see it in others, but not necessarily see it in ourselves.

00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:35.839
But no, I mean you spoke about you spoke about gang culture and you know joining gangs.

00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:37.920
Tell me a little bit about that.

00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:40.960
What was that like in the era that you were growing up in?

00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:43.119
So in the 80s, it was glue sniffing.

00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:43.839
Oh, okay, yeah.

00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.359
Yeah, that that was a thing, and what a frickin' buzz.

00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:48.400
You know what I mean?

00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:50.400
Hallucinations a lot, you know what I mean?

00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:54.400
And the gas and and and the glue sniffing, and I I went through it all.

00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:57.839
So the gangs was you know, it's us against them.

00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:00.000
You protect the area no matter what happens.

00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:02.160
We were living so was it an Asian gang that you was part of?

00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:04.559
Yeah, but the thing is the whites were in it as well.

00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:06.079
Yeah, a couple of whites were in there.

00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:09.200
Because then it becomes about the neighbourhood and the area, not necessarily just about the culture.

00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:12.240
Yeah, so our area was the ghetto.

00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:21.599
I mean, you know, you you you you look at ghettos and watch TV and whatnot, like in America or even here, we it was the original ghetto.

00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:22.480
You know what I mean?

00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:25.839
No one came in, we weren't allowed to go to certain areas.

00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:30.000
It's only up until recently, the last 10-15 years that I've actually gone.

00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:32.319
Blackburn was very, very segregated.

00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:37.200
It was you know, you just did not go there, you only went up there to get your head kicked in.

00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:37.519
Yeah, yeah.

00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:40.400
If he was looking for a fight, that's where that's where you went there.

00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:44.160
That's where you went, and and a lot of the times, yeah, we'd come to the borders.

00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:51.759
They'd have you know 10-15 people on that side, 10-15 people on this side, and all we did ever was if we ever caught one of them, he's getting leathered.

00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:52.880
And vice versa.

00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:55.200
And a lot of the times that's all that happened.

00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:58.559
It was never a case of full gang fights kind of thing.

00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:02.160
If we caught one of them, he was getting battered, and vice versa.

00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:07.200
And I have been battered a few times to be honest, because I've been on the wrong side of the fence.

00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:08.720
So, yeah, yeah.

00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.079
So, I do you know what, honestly, it was exciting at the same time.

00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:13.839
But so it's the adrenaline rush, isn't it?

00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:16.480
Because you know you know you're pushing the boundaries, don't you?

00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:17.279
Do you know what I mean?

00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:18.640
I I I get that completely.

00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:22.559
Yeah, obviously, you talk about the glue sniffing, talk about the introduction to alcohol.

00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:23.680
Do you know?

00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:30.640
I think there's there's the obvious for me that we're trying to escape things emotionally there that you're experiencing as a child.

00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:35.279
But what was it like to to kind of take control of how you felt?

00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:39.119
And I say that loosely in terms of taking control by using substances.

00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:40.319
There was no control.

00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:47.680
No, no, did you feel like it was did you feel like you was taking control or did you know that what you was kind of putting yourself in that position?

00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:53.759
All it did was put me in a dream state for a short little while.

00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:54.160
Yeah.

00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:55.519
Reality kicked in.

00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:56.240
The escapism.

00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:58.640
The escapism, and I had to go back home.

00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:06.640
But as time went on, that reality, that that escape escapism turned into reality.

00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:12.720
It kind of you know, like it was almost like have you seen Matrix?

00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:16.319
Uh yeah, with the the dream state of what's real and not.

00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:17.839
It was almost like that.

00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:23.920
That became reality for me, and everything else was like, oh, what's this?

00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:24.799
This is real.

00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:26.319
Yeah, you know what I mean?

00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:31.440
That is not real, although that was life and that was reality kind of thing.

00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:43.599
And yeah, I I kind of you know, I I I accepted it and I kind of tried to figure a way out, kind of how to navigate myself being in this state kind of thing.

00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:47.279
It was just yeah, it was just it's madness.

00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.039
When did it start to spiral into an addiction then?

00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:52.960
So for people to refer to you as an alky.

00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:55.759
You're obviously not someone who just enjoys a drink on a Friday night.

00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:01.279
People have obviously seen you drinking a lot for them to refer to you as the you know, yeah, as an alky.

00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:12.160
Yeah, I think my the addiction started with it led up to pills from pills to cannabis from cannabis, it was heroin.

00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:13.279
Oh, okay, yeah.

00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:14.240
It was heroin.

00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:14.640
Yeah.

00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:20.559
When heroin got gripped me, and it was actually quite late later on in my life.

00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:25.839
I know a lot of stories and and and and uh you know and what what what I do now kind of thing.

00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.920
Uh uh a lot of people started heroin at a very early age.

00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:31.200
For me, it was the other way around.

00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:32.319
How old were you?

00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.200
I think I was in the late 20s, okay.

00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:39.039
Yeah, 27, 28, and uh I was introduced to it.

00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:45.440
And I again whatever you do, take all the drugs, drugs under the sun, do not go into any heroin.

00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.640
Crack wasn't even on the scene, or I didn't know anything about it.

00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:53.039
But somebody introduced heroin to me.

00:24:53.599 --> 00:25:11.519
And I remember the first time I put it in a spliff, and I got this sense of warmth and the whole world just shut off, and I was the only person on the planet, and that felt good.

00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:14.640
That felt wow, what is this?

00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:18.960
And that's the one of my first memories of heroin.

00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:31.759
It was like, whoa, this is something else, and and then from making it into a spliff, went into on a foil, and that's when my addiction started.

00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:34.160
And I didn't know what a rattle was.

00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:40.400
Yeah, I didn't know I always found that the interesting part when people think, Oh, I'm not very well, and it's like, no, you're rattling your tits off, you know.

00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:43.359
If you take more heroin, you'll feel better, yeah, and that's that's it.

00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.799
And I I for the record like I always say when people go, Oh, I don't understand it.

00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:53.759
Well, like when people describe taking heroin for the first time and how that feels, I often think, Well, of course that becomes an addiction.

00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:57.920
There's no way you take that once and have that feeling and think, right.

00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:01.599
No way, as great as that was, I'm never doing that again.

00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:05.599
No, I completely understand how it quickly spirals out.

00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:09.359
But because and and often it can be like you said, not knowing what a rattle is.

00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:12.240
There is that lack of education of where it can lead to.

00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:17.359
There's the lack of education on the physical dependency that that is going to have on you.

00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:26.400
And in if anyway, if you kind of do like a bit of a cost-benefit analysis in your own head, it almost seems worth it in some way, just to feel the way you've just described 100%.

00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:36.079
From from my childhood to where I was when I first took heroin, I take heroin all day long because the world didn't matter anymore.

00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:38.799
Yeah, this was a beautiful place I wanted to be in.

00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:46.240
Not understanding and realizing the addiction that was that had to come with it and the pain that had to come with it.

00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:50.480
And yeah, it was so not knowing about a rattle then.

00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.440
So yeah, what was that like then when you had the first rattle?

00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:54.000
What was you thinking?

00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:58.559
So I you know, so so the fit so and then I started falling ill.

00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:00.799
And uh I thought, what is wrong with me?

00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.680
I couldn't sleep, my throat was dry, and you know what I mean.

00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:05.839
I thought it's a common cold, I'll get over it.

00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:07.759
I've got a cold today, by the way.

00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:13.519
And and then and then I told someone, he says, You know what's happening, don't you?

00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:14.240
What?

00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:15.519
He says, You're rattling.

00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:17.200
Oh my god.

00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:18.799
Yeah, that was it.

00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:26.079
When they said you're rattling, and the only thing that's gonna make you feel better is another few lines, that was it.

00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:28.799
That kind of sealed my fate.

00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:30.480
It sealed it.

00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:32.160
Yeah, I I always say this guy.

00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:36.640
I mean, there's some something that was uh the way it was described to me before, they said to him, Matt, have you ever had the flu?

00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:38.640
I went, Yeah, I had it, you know, years ago.

00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:42.480
Said, you know, the the vomiting, the diarrhea, the stomach cramps, the sweat.

00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:45.680
And he said, Imagine if someone came to him and said, Just take this now and you're gonna feel better.

00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:46.400
Would you have done it?

00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:49.440
And I went, Yeah, thinking about how bad it was, of course, or whatever.

00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:57.119
Yeah, and that's kind of what comes into it because yeah, obviously, we we talk about an opiate routel, it's not it's it's horrendous.

00:27:57.279 --> 00:27:58.799
Horrendous, but it's not gonna kill you.

00:27:59.119 --> 00:27:59.680
Do you know what I mean?

00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.359
It's it's not it's not gonna it's not gonna shut your system down in the way people think it will.

00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:21.440
Yeah, but it's that horrendous that you just want to stop feeling that way, so of course, yeah, you have more and you have more, and you and it just gives this continuous thing, and it becomes it's not even about that almost not about that high anymore that you've described of that feeling of isolation and that euphoric feeling.

00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:24.240
It's just want to stop feeling like shit.

00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:32.720
But here's the thing with that though, yeah, uh as soon as I come to the realization that I'm bratting, I also come to the realization I'm screwed.

00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:33.279
Yeah, okay.

00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:40.079
So then the internal battle started as soon as I became an addict of how am I gonna stop?

00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:45.119
So then what I'd would do deliberately is call turkey.

00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:45.759
Yeah, yeah.

00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:49.759
I deliberately put myself, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna call turkey.

00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:54.880
Then I found out about it, you know, you sweat it out and all the rest of it, and you know, you go through the process.

00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:56.319
So I started that.

00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:00.720
I began year after year torturing myself.

00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:02.799
You know, I'm gonna do this.

00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:04.000
I'm gonna do it.

00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:07.839
I remember at the time my daughter was, I'm gonna do it for my daughter.

00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:10.720
I'm gonna do it for this reason, I'm gonna do it for that reason.

00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:28.400
And no matter how many times I tried to call turkey, sometimes with the methadones, sometimes with the sleepers, sometimes with the with the diazipal, and with with with the you know, with the with the you know, Tamazi palm, each time I'd do it, I'd last a day, two.

00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:30.400
And then I just crumble again.

00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:30.960
Yeah.

00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:34.720
It was and I just tortured myself.

00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:42.160
And then when my father found out, and by the by this t by this time, I was taken to Pakistan.

00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:48.480
This was just just before I was taken to Pakistan, and uh we talked me and Robbie talked about this about the arranged marriage.

00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:57.359
Yeah, talk to talk to him about this arranged marriage then, because obviously from what I understand, that was a big catalyst in terms of in terms of where this addiction went.

00:29:57.440 --> 00:29:59.839
Was this a case of like your dad was just so fed up at the way you were?

00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.440
Behaving the way he was acting, it's like, right, I'm gonna sort this out, you're gonna get married.

00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:06.480
Did he think it was gonna be like this fix that would just sort all your problems?

00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:09.680
But the thing was I at the time I was on heroin.

00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:10.559
Yeah, okay, yeah.

00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:17.279
I was on, I was on the you know, the the lesser drugs, uh vitamin and pills and weed and whatnot, and kind of thing.

00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:23.599
So he in his in his in his wisdom thought uh you know, I know what I'll do.

00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:27.200
I'll take him over, get him married, get him settled down.

00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:34.240
So, you know, I have to talk about this, and and you know, some of my family members might not agree with me.

00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.519
And I need to talk about this because there's no blame game here.

00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.279
And I just want to emphasize uh my father is my hero.

00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:42.640
You know what I mean?

00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:46.319
He he is the greatest man that I've ever known.

00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:47.759
See, that's bizarre to me.

00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:50.799
Yeah, that is bizarre to me that you can say that after everything he's done to you or not.

00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:52.400
No, but here's the thing though.

00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:54.079
He he taught me something.

00:30:54.640 --> 00:31:05.920
He taught me how to live life on life terms, he taught me to be upright, he taught me to be strong-minded, he taught me because I saw him, I idolized him.

00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:07.920
I I idolized him.

00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:13.279
Yeah, and and you know, when he talked, he fascinated me.

00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:18.480
I wouldn't understand what freaking hell he's talking about, but I was mesmerized.

00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:26.799
The words that were coming out, everything kind of made sense, but it it not to my head, but it looked and sounded good.

00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:28.880
Yeah, if does that make sense?

00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:31.039
It it does, it doesn't it doesn't.

00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:39.359
I I think it obviously I I can I I completely get it because he's he's your dad, and I think you you spoke quite highly of him at the beginning and said, look, he did the best that he could.

00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:40.240
Yeah, do you know?

00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:47.119
But I also think, and again, not making excuses for your dad's behaviour towards you, but he's also a product of his environment and what happened to him.

00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:56.480
100% why you'd be forgiven to him if you wouldn't if you have the understanding of he did this to me because it likely happened to him, but it was how he was do you know what I mean?

00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:58.319
Can I just quickly go talk about that?

00:31:58.400 --> 00:31:58.720
Yeah, yeah.

00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:02.400
So my father, his father died when he was 17, 18.

00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.200
He was married to my mum, yeah.

00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:13.119
And what what my mum's brother did is take my dad's sister.

00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:14.160
Okay, yeah.

00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:21.440
That at the time, 50 years ago in Pakistan was like committing suicide.

00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:21.920
Wow.

00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:26.400
And it broke our two families apart.

00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:32.720
My dad felt compelled and had no other choice but to leave my mum.

00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:34.079
Yeah, and she begged him.

00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:34.400
Yeah.

00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.920
And at the time we were there's only three, there were three of us, three brothers.

00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:42.000
Uh, but he says, Look, they've taken one of us.

00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:44.240
Yeah, how can I keep you?

00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:44.960
Okay.

00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:51.359
So it was a kind of uh um, you know, the honour thing that kind of kicked in.

00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:51.599
Yeah.

00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:52.480
You know what I mean?

00:32:52.640 --> 00:33:01.200
So now this man, this 18, 19-year-old man, yeah has just and at the same time he's left with the burden to look after his siblings.

00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:02.960
And there's about six of them.

00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:03.440
Yeah.

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:04.720
You know what I mean?

00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:04.960
Yeah.

00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:20.640
What I in just recently before he passed away, we were I was sat down and he was quite ill, and I used to rub him with uh cream and uh and uh uh you know, and um uh my sister was on the phone and she was at the doctor's and she said, Um, Dad, what cream is it?

00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:23.119
And he pointed towards me and went, What cream is it?

00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:27.519
I panicked because of of my trauma.

00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:29.599
Yeah, it was how he dealt with me.

00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:32.400
And I went, what, what, what, what freaking cream, what, what, what, what?

00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:36.079
He goes, A freaking cream, because he was on the phone kind of thing, yeah.

00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:37.920
And now that triggers something off.

00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:39.920
Then it hit me.

00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:40.720
Shit.

00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:41.519
Yeah.

00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:44.559
This is then I sat down to him and I said, you know what?

00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:46.160
I've been getting therapy for this.

00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:46.640
Yeah.

00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:48.799
I said, You have traumatized me.

00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:49.119
Yeah.

00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:51.440
To the point now, I go on the defense.

00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:53.839
If anyone talks to me in a funny way, I what?

00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:54.559
What did you say?

00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:55.440
Fucking come on then.

00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:56.160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:58.079
Confrontation, confrontation.

00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:06.240
Because I was the way you treated me, yeah, and you battered me, yeah, I have become this person.

00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:08.880
And then it then it kind of dawned on me.

00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:13.280
And when I sent, I'm I said, when I said I got I'm getting therapy of you, he sunk.

00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:14.960
I thought shit.

00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:18.400
And I went upstairs, I did my prayers, you know, five times the prayers.

00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:26.239
I come back down and he he went, Oh my life, I've over all I've ever done is try to support you, and I was your I'm your father.

00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.280
And he was absolutely heartbroken.

00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:33.280
So he didn't even realise how bad he'd sort of messed you up.

00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:36.559
No, but here's the thing to that look what I did.

00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:38.800
I said, Let me tell you a story.

00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:42.800
There was a man, then I gave his story to him.

00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:50.079
Oh god, I turned it.

00:34:50.960 --> 00:34:51.920
I don't know, Taz.

00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:53.440
He's a better man here.

00:34:54.320 --> 00:35:00.880
Then I then I saw his story, then I played his story back to him through my mouth.

00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:11.519
That's when he realized that's the first time I saw a father look at his son in them loving eyes.

00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:26.239
I said, here was a man who went through this, didn't know which way to turn, has landed in an alien country, yeah, and he doesn't know what the hell he's doing, and the only way he could regulate his emotion is through anger.

00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:29.440
I said, What is that man going through?

00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:33.199
And then he realized I was talking about him.

00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:34.880
You know what I mean?

00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:39.920
And that was the turning point in our relationship, and it was only just recently before he passed away.

00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:41.679
But you know what?

00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:53.920
He kind of he seen me for who I was, he saw my potential, he saw me destroy myself over and over again, he tried to put me in rehabs, I was in rehabs twice, three times in Pakistan.

00:35:54.239 --> 00:36:00.559
He helped me, yeah, and he knew deep down there's decency inside this person, and he never gave up on me.

00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:02.320
And everyone else gave up on me.

00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:18.159
The way he did it may not be or could be questionable, you know, to say the least, kind of thing, but his intentions were pure and honourable, and I can't take that away from him, no matter how I feel, yeah.

00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:20.880
And no matter what people say, kind of thing.

00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:21.920
Do you get what I'm trying to say?

00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:23.360
I do, yeah, I do, I do get it.

00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:27.039
Yeah, it's obviously there's a clash of cultures as well in the in in this sense as well.

00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:30.719
Like I mean, this is why we have these podcasts, this is why we have these conversations.

00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.599
I I everything you're saying to me, it makes sense, yeah, but I'll never fully understand it.

00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:36.000
No.

00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:40.000
But to you, yeah, you will because this is your life and this is your culture, yeah.

00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:41.280
And that's why it's interesting to hear.

00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:42.000
Don't get me wrong.

00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:54.960
I I think honestly, if you was a I say, if you were a white British, like telling a similar story about the abuse that you went through as a child, I guarantee you wouldn't be speaking about your father in a and with any positivity.

00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:56.079
You just wouldn't.

00:36:56.239 --> 00:37:00.159
And I think that's a that's a maybe a big cultural difference between the two.

00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:06.239
So yeah, yeah, you know, you there is a sense of that you're right.

00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:08.960
I just want to tell you the end story about my father.

00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:09.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:12.000
So he developed stage four cancer.

00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:18.159
So, you know, he was every time I was in jail, he would big me up.

00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:19.519
My sisters, my sister.

00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.400
You know, him, he's a legend.

00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:24.480
This is what he would say.

00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:27.519
When I'd be in front of him, it'd be down my throat.

00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:32.400
My siblings, my sisters, and my brothers said he idolizes you, yeah.

00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:34.000
But he couldn't tell me.

00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:38.800
I the I remember is that is that a pro is that a proud man-to-man thing that he couldn't he just couldn't do it?

00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:39.360
Couldn't.

00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:46.559
Wow, he couldn't, he couldn't admit it because every time I saw him, he saw his own reflection.

00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:50.880
Okay, and every time I saw I mean he saw me, and it was vice versa.

00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:55.199
I remember the last time I came out of jail about four years ago, and he was quite ill.

00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:57.920
And uh he he was almost like that.

00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:07.599
And I when I come out, I looked at him, and when I looked at him into his eyes, he looked at me within a matter of days, he was upright.

00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:09.840
My sisters said, What have you done to him?

00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:11.920
He's been on tablets, he's been done.

00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.519
This is he's he's he's he's you know what I mean.

00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:22.000
But he the the thing is when he developed stage stage for concept on his deathbed, he gathered my siblings and I've got it recorded.

00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:22.880
Yeah, yeah.

00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:26.079
He said, This man, this is what I wanted from him.

00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:31.760
All your life, all my life, yeah, and he gave it to me to what and he didn't give it to me, it was abundant.

00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:43.360
He said, This guy, he says, This guy is that guy where he's reached in his life right now, no man could achieve that.

00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:48.400
Yeah, what he has done for his family, no man could have done.

00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:52.480
Yeah, you are here to my siblings because of this man.

00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:56.159
I have been dancing, this these were his his words.

00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:03.599
I have been dancing on him because I knew I had a brave, brave son, so I was relaxed.

00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:07.360
And oh my god, I was crying my eyes out.

00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:09.599
I don't I get it.

00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:13.599
All I wanted was I used to say to him, I said, Why don't you ever tap me on the back, dad?

00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:14.800
You know what I mean?

00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:16.159
A little well done.

00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:17.199
Little well done.

00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:17.519
Why?

00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:21.280
I did this was as I was growing up, you know why it's answerable?

00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:26.800
Because if I ever tap you on the back, you'll end up freaking killing someone.

00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:34.960
In the sense that you'd be you'd be so fully charged, you know what I mean, that you'd do you'd do anything.

00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:36.639
I had that side to me.

00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:38.079
Yeah, do you get what I'm trying to say?

00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:42.800
Yeah, so it's almost like you know, I guess in some way, trying to hold you back in a little bit.

00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:43.679
This is what it did.

00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:46.320
He had his hand out, don't not yet, I'm here.

00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:49.039
And many times I was in conflict with him, but look what they're doing.

00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:51.360
Just stay back.

00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:52.880
You don't need it yet.

00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:54.079
You know what I mean?

00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:58.960
And and and I remember it when I'd come home and say, Where the hell have you been?

00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:06.400
It took me 30 years to understand his language.

00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:09.599
What he was was actually saying, Where are you, son?

00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:11.199
Yeah I missed you.

00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:12.239
Sit down.

00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:16.400
I remember him towards the end, you know, I was eating.

00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:23.840
I was just about to eat, and he said to me, and out of disgust or whatever's going on, I dropped it and I and I walked off.

00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:26.000
I walked it back to dormant I was that pissed off.

00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:27.599
Yeah, he was on the phone.

00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:28.719
What have you gone?

00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:30.400
What have you done that for?

00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:31.760
I thought, you know what?

00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:35.039
I said, nothing, you know, me, I said I get like that.

00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:36.719
He goes, you know, there's nothing wrong with him.

00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:37.039
Yeah.

00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:39.519
We had that relationship, you know what I mean?

00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:43.039
And uh he was worried about you without directly telling you I'm worried about you.

00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:44.239
Yes, he couldn't say it.

00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:50.239
Yeah, yeah, he had to play this play this role of the strong man because he saw that in me.

00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:51.519
And you know what I mean?

00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:55.119
And and and every time I got into a fight, and you know what?

00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:56.480
He was proud.

00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:02.880
Not that not that it's a thing, but not that he's proud of you fighting, but he's proud that you, you know, you're standing up for yourself.

00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:06.559
I mean, obviously, he he would have he would have seen some of the stuff you went through as a kid.

00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:06.880
Yeah.

00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:09.760
The stuff that we've already talked about, the stuff you've experienced, he'd have seen that.

00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:10.159
100%.

00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:16.079
I suppose maybe one of his fears was you growing up to be I don't know, a bit of a bitch, sort of thing.

00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:16.719
Do you know what I mean?

00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:19.760
He wanted you to be a he wanted you to be strong and wanted to look after yourself.

00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:20.000
Yeah.

00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:21.679
I guess I I I I get it.

00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:24.159
I mean, obviously, I just want to go back to the arranged marriage thing.

00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:26.320
Because obviously that seemed like a massive catalyst for it.

00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:28.480
So when did because you've got you mentioned you've got a daughter.

00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:29.280
How many children do you have?

00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:29.840
Five children.

00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:30.639
You've got five children.

00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:32.400
From the arranged marriage?

00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:33.440
From the arranged marriage.

00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:34.719
Okay, talk to me about this then.

00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:35.199
Wow.

00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:37.039
I'm 18 years old.

00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:39.199
Yeah, I'm all over the freaking show.

00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:43.760
I was working with my dad at a takeaway, and he says, I says, Look, I need a break.

00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:45.360
My wages used to go to him.

00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:46.559
He says, you know what?

00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:47.920
Because that was the thing kind of thing.

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:52.559
We, you know, we give our wages to our fathers and he'd do what's best for us and whatnot, and all the rest of it.

00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:54.480
And he says, I said, Look, I need a holiday.

00:41:54.559 --> 00:41:55.840
He says, You want to go for a holiday?

00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:58.079
You go Pakistan and get married.

00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:00.639
I'm thinking in the back of my head, this is not gonna happen.

00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:02.000
For me, it's an holiday.

00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:03.920
Yeah, so I'm over now with him.

00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:07.920
He's what he's done, he's bought me a Kawasaki, one, two, five.

00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:10.960
You know, I'm chilling, I'm loving it, and all the rest of it.

00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:12.639
Feels like a holiday so far, sort of thing.

00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:14.800
So far, so good, kind of thing.

00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:25.039
All of a sudden, he's come back one evening and uh he says, Oh, by the way, I found your wife and you are getting married on a particular day.

00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:26.400
What?

00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:27.199
Married?

00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:29.199
Who are you going on about?

00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:30.480
I said, Who is she?

00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:35.679
And and I've chosen her, she's perfect for you, and uh, you're getting married.

00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:38.559
I said, if you've chosen her, why don't you marry her?

00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:39.360
Yeah, yeah.

00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:43.119
And this so this is what he did.

00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:53.039
Now, this is what he did for for whatever his reasons, and he says, Look, and he did have a point, I do understand, but it was wrong.

00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:54.400
I don't agree with it.

00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:56.559
He came to me and he says, You know what?

00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:05.360
He says, if you do this now, if you don't do this, my brothers out there, yeah, have a lot of respect for me.

00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:08.079
I'm like a father figure to him, yeah.

00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:12.960
Not to mention the the the the family that we've gave our word to, yeah.

00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:14.400
You're gonna ruin me.

00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:15.039
Yeah.

00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:16.960
It left me with them thoughts.

00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:20.079
I was like, shit, I can't do this to him.

00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:21.519
Yeah, I can't do it to him.

00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:21.840
You know what?

00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:24.400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:28.239
Massive, massive guilt trip.

00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:31.280
And I thought, you know what, shit, Taz, you know what, you're gonna go through this.

00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:38.719
The first time I saw my wife was when she was sat next to me getting married.

00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:41.440
And for you know what I mean?

00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:43.599
I had high expectations.

00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:49.519
I looked at her, I thought, what the fuck have they done to me?

00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:54.320
I swear to God, I am not lying to you.

00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:58.239
And she's the mother that my children, and I'll tell you another thing about her as well.

00:43:58.719 --> 00:43:59.679
A great woman.

00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:01.199
Yeah, great woman.

00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:05.119
I could not ask for a better better mother, and that's what your dad would have looked for.

00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:09.199
He's not necessarily looking for a you know 10 out of 10 page three model for you, is it?

00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:11.920
He's looking up for a good woman who's gonna be a good mother of your children.

00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:18.559
But the thing was it kind of it could I rebelled against it, and I looked at it and I thought, what the fuck have they done here?

00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:20.000
Yeah, you know what I mean?

00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:22.400
And that was my turning point.

00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:26.880
That was that that that kind of spiraled out of control.

00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:37.599
See, I think for from for me, a lot of a lot of what I get from this story is a lack of control, a lack of control over your mind culturally, a lack of control over.

00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:42.000
No, from yeah, in just in general, you just I've I had no control.

00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:42.719
That's what I mean.

00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:43.440
Yeah, no control over control.

00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:46.960
Lack of control in terms of in terms of the life you've lived even up to that point.

00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:49.599
And then more so because you're in an arranged marriage.

00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:49.840
Yeah.

00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:57.119
And then and and then because and then obviously she came over, whatnot, and one thing led to another, for the first child, whatnot, you know what I mean?

00:44:57.280 --> 00:44:58.320
What a house.

00:44:58.719 --> 00:44:59.840
And then it started.

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:02.159
I thought, shit, I can't do this.

00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:04.239
So what did I do?

00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:05.440
Turn to the drugs.

00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:11.599
I turned to the drugs, I turned to the heroine, and and the thing I was in conflict.

00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:21.119
The thing was, which is extremely important to me, and I need to it needs to be heard, is I don't know how many times I wanted to walk out.

00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:21.840
Yeah.

00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:26.400
The only thing that kept stopping me was my old childhood.

00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:28.239
I thought, shit.

00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:30.320
Look what you went through as a child.

00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:31.440
No mother.

00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:36.880
I used to look at people's mother and I used to think, does this is this how a mother is going to be?

00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:38.320
Is this what a mother is like?

00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:43.519
It's a dream and fantasise about a mother figure.

00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:52.239
And um I thought, if I walk away now, by that time there are two little boys, you know, grown fine men now, you know what I mean?

00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:54.079
And one of them's actually fighting on Saturday.

00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:54.639
Oh, nice.

00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:56.880
Yeah, and I'm going down, I'm gonna be in this corner.

00:45:57.119 --> 00:46:01.840
And I used to look at them and thought, I can't put them through what I went through.

00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:04.480
It's like history repeating itself.

00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:05.199
That's it, yeah.

00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:08.000
Kind of what happened to your dad from his dad, and so forth.

00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:12.239
I had to break the mold, so what I did, I suffered.

00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:13.840
You know what?

00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:14.880
I thought I'd take it.

00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:21.840
And then before you know it, those five kids, by this time, I was a freaking mess.

00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:25.199
A complete emotional wreck.

00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:26.320
You know what I mean?

00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:28.960
A walk-in time bomb.

00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:31.280
You say, look at me in a funny way.

00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:35.840
I remember walking walking down the street once, and some guy looked at me, so what the fuck are you looking at?

00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:41.519
We ended up fighting in the middle of the street, and afterwards, I had a good friend of mine, by the way, a Scottish fellow called Jodie.

00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:43.280
He went, What the fuck are we fighting for?

00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:45.119
I said, I ain't got a fucking clue, mate.

00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:49.840
We began that's how volatile my head became.

00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:50.960
Do you know what I mean?

00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:55.920
This is this this is what I I I went through, and it was wow.

00:46:56.559 --> 00:47:00.320
And so, you know, I I I I couldn't I couldn't do that to him.

00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:01.519
How many boys do you have?

00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:02.639
I have three boys.

00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:07.840
How does how does your relationship with your boys compare to the relationship that you had with your dad?

00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:10.079
Here's the thing with that.

00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:14.320
So when my kids were growing up, yeah, I thought, you know what, I'm never gonna do what my dad did.

00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:15.920
Guess what I did?

00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:17.039
Same thing.

00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:18.320
Exactly the same thing.

00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:27.760
I remember once hitting my son, I think it was about 14, 15, and he he he was another copy of me.

00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:28.639
He wouldn't cry.

00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:32.079
I thought he was fucking taking the little paces, crap, crap, crap, crap, crap.

00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:35.920
I went upstairs and I took his top off and he had bruises.

00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:38.400
And then he hit me.

00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:40.400
You fucking idiot.

00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:42.320
Yeah, you've turned into your dad.

00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:42.960
Yeah.

00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:49.119
And I remember my kids coming home from school and saying, Dad, look at I gotta see you and I gotta be.

00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:51.039
And I said, Come here, give us a hug.

00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:52.480
Cause I never got it.

00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:52.719
Yeah.

00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:53.760
Do you know what I mean?

00:47:54.000 --> 00:48:00.480
So I tried the best I could, but when I saw that, that what I had become, I thought, never again.

00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:02.400
Yeah, I'm not doing that to him again.

00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:05.039
Cause it's it's doing exactly the same thing.

00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:09.519
But my son, where they are now, we're men.

00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:15.119
You know, and what my dad I couldn't have with my dad, my son's have with me.

00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:15.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:17.599
And they're getting at an earlier age.

00:48:17.679 --> 00:48:20.320
You got it from your dad on his deathbed, sort of thing.

00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:20.800
Do you know what I mean?

00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:21.599
I'm giving it to him now.

00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:22.400
You're giving it to him now.

00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:23.199
I'm saying, you know what?

00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:25.199
I'm your best mate, I'm your best mate.

00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:30.800
And a lot of people actually, you know, some of the things that they've done, uh a lot of people don't agree with.

00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:34.480
And the thing is with me, okay, damage limitation.

00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:38.239
If they do something wrong now, as a father, I can advise them because they're grown men.

00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:39.840
I can't get involved.

00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:40.480
Yeah.

00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:44.159
They are living their own lives and they need to learn themselves.

00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:45.199
Do you understand?

00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:52.639
I can't get a bloody bat and start battering them and uh and shouting at them, and uh and that doesn't work.

00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:53.920
It didn't work for me.

00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:55.519
Yeah, how's it gonna work for my sons?

00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:56.800
How is it?

00:48:57.760 --> 00:48:58.239
So yeah.

00:48:58.480 --> 00:48:59.920
So you've experienced prison.

00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:00.719
Oh, yeah.

00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:01.199
Yeah.

00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:02.719
Tell me a little bit about that.

00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:05.599
Being, you know, you mentioned it, being in and out of prison.

00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:06.400
Yeah.

00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:10.079
That sort of impact that has on your family.

00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:11.280
Oh, it's horrible.

00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:13.119
Talk talk me talk me through it.

00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:18.480
So in the beginning, I I I didn't know as far as I was complained, uh concerned, I was playing the victim here.

00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:19.119
You know what I mean?

00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:19.920
Screw the family.

00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:26.320
I didn't know, I didn't understand the concept of them going through what they're going through while I'm in jail, kind of thing.

00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:29.599
It was oh you know, I'm back in prison and you know, feeling sorry for myself.

00:49:29.679 --> 00:49:32.320
I need to pick myself up and blah de blah and all the rest of it.

00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:37.360
Not realizing that they are going through a they're going through a prison sentence in itself.

00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:40.559
Yeah, I think addiction makes it makes you very selfish, doesn't it?

00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:44.320
Really, you can't really see outwards, it's just this constantly looking inwards that you do.

00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:45.119
Poor me.

00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:46.079
That's it, yeah.

00:49:46.239 --> 00:49:50.559
Yeah, poor me, and you know, and my daughter did mention it, and she says, Poor you, this is what you've been doing.

00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:52.480
I said, and and she was she was right.

00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:54.639
This is what I'd been doing for years.

00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:58.159
Yeah, look at me, you don't know what I went through, you know, and all that crap.

00:49:58.559 --> 00:49:59.840
Not thinking about what they went through.

00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:02.079
And and and then she said it not long ago.

00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:05.119
She said, Do you know how painful it was?

00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:11.119
She's she's done psychology now, and and there's there's a lot going on here right now.

00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:19.840
My still, because of what happened, I need to go back to the and I went back to the prison as well, and it all kind of fit in into the jigsaw kind of thing.

00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:26.800
And so while that was going on, what my father got remarried, we had he had six six daughters.

00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:29.440
Okay, he was desperate for a son.

00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:33.440
From the first, he tried and tried and tried, and each time it was a girl.

00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:38.960
And I started giggling after a while because I could clicked onto it, and I'd be it'd go go hospitate in them days.

00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:41.360
You go to the phone box, ring the hospital up, and find out.

00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:43.440
Didn't even go to the freaking hospital.

00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:46.159
So I'd come back on the fourth child knowing he'd be pissed off.

00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:47.599
Oh, congratulations, the girl.

00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:49.840
He went, you fucking prick girl.

00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:54.400
But it was almost comical.

00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:58.639
By the sixth time, you're like, oh fuck, you think someone wanted him up, don't they?

00:50:59.039 --> 00:50:59.679
It was brilliant.

00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:07.119
He's fucking, oh god, it was just looking at his face was just oh it's brilliant.

00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:09.280
It was priceless, you know what I mean?

00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:11.920
Uh and my grand did say, God rest us all.

00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:15.760
She went, Manzuah, you're not gonna have any sons.

00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:18.000
Uh uh sons, you've got three sons.

00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:21.039
And and you know, it was kind of poetic to be honest with you.

00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:26.239
And so here's the thing now, these six girls are growing up, my sisters.

00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:27.760
What am I thinking?

00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:30.320
My childhood and why my mum left me.

00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:33.360
Because of two people doing a dirty.

00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:35.920
So, what am I gonna have done?

00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:40.559
I became this over-protective fucking psychopath.

00:51:41.599 --> 00:51:45.280
If I catch you with anyone, I'll fucking kill you.

00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:45.840
Yeah.

00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:52.800
So I would smoke weed in the middle of the night and do if a car pulled up with the lads, lads in it, what the f are you doing around here?

00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:54.480
Get around your own end.

00:51:54.960 --> 00:51:58.960
I became over-protective, yeah, and I panicked.

00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:03.440
And and this went on for a while, and they were terrified of me.

00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.719
They were terrified of me, and I would have done it.

00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:09.920
I was that far gone, I would have done it.

00:52:10.159 --> 00:52:16.400
And I thank God that I didn't do something though that stupid that would have been you know I'd been regretting for the rest of my life.

00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:18.960
Yeah, but I didn't understand what was going on with me.

00:52:19.039 --> 00:52:20.159
I was scared.

00:52:20.559 --> 00:52:24.000
I thought, no, six, I'm loving with six.

00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:26.000
What the fuck am I supposed to look after these?

00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:28.880
It's almost talking to God kind of thing.

00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:32.800
Uh so then I started this, you know, like, okay, overprotective.

00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:40.000
And how many times have I gone into town centres yet and they've been they've gone out of the house with the scarves on and they've gone into town took the scarves off?

00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:44.639
They're teenagers, they were they they were spreading the wings, of course they're gonna do that.

00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:47.440
And as soon as I seen it, get home.

00:52:48.559 --> 00:52:54.000
At one point, my dad was saying, Stop doing the fucking dad, leave that to me.

00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:55.039
You know what I mean?

00:52:55.119 --> 00:53:02.320
I sort of went through that phase, but when my own daughter came about, I thought, shit, I can't lie like this.

00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:04.079
She'll hate me.

00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:06.480
So I had to change.

00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:12.800
I had to change, and I had to become this other person, I had to become this father, and I had I had my kind of things.

00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:24.000
Anyway, getting back to the jail and whatnot, and so the jail was honest to God, to be honest with you, it's made me the person I am today.

00:53:24.239 --> 00:53:27.280
Because every time I went into jail, I got better.

00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:36.719
Yeah, I got better, I got stronger emotionally, physically, you know what I mean, and and I became the person that I've always wanted to be.

00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:38.239
I won't touch drugs.

00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:42.719
Maybe the first few times I went in, you know, under my day, maybe a split here and there.

00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:42.960
Yeah.

00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:46.159
But it was just a case of because the lads are doing it kind of thing.

00:53:46.559 --> 00:54:00.800
When I got my big sentences for four and a four, I think uh seven years I did back to back with it with it with a period of six months free time, I I I I became strong.

00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:09.599
And uh so yeah, my prayers and my training focused one thing I couldn't understand.

00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:16.239
Why do I go back out and become this drug addict again?

00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:23.599
And as soon as I come back in jail, like and and the and the and the page got shorter and shorter and shorter.

00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:28.960
I'd have more long time inside, and I'd I'd I'd I'd hit rock bottom very, very quickly.

00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:30.400
Very, very quickly.

00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:33.440
But there was a patent developing, and I wonder it hit me.

00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:36.960
I've got to leave the mother of my children.

00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:38.880
She was the trigger.

00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:39.920
Okay, yeah.

00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:41.039
She was the trigger.

00:54:41.199 --> 00:54:41.440
Yeah.

00:54:41.599 --> 00:54:44.960
And it almost, you know, it was, you know, it was, oh god.

00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:46.400
I thought, shit.

00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:48.480
Every time I'm in jail, I'm okay.

00:54:48.639 --> 00:54:52.400
If I'm a if I am that way inclined, there's drugs in jail.

00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:53.119
Yeah.

00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:54.239
What's going on?

00:54:54.400 --> 00:54:55.519
So what's happening when you're outside?

00:54:56.800 --> 00:55:01.519
And I I was questioning myself on what was behind this, and then it hit me.

00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:10.800
I've got I've got a I've got to get I've got to I've got to break, I've got to break the umbilical code of this arranged marriage if I want peace in my life.

00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:12.880
And was it because of her as an individual?

00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:21.360
Was it anything she was doing, or was it just the fact that, as we've said earlier on, that lack of control and being forced into that marriage, the resentment that I just built up from that?

00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:24.079
That as well, but more more so culture.

00:55:24.320 --> 00:55:24.880
Okay, yeah.

00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:27.760
It was culture because she was from a different world.

00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:38.639
So she was very much still in the sort of Muslim Pakistani world of culturalism, and you were very okay, and you're very westernized, westernised and have a little bit of that side as well.

00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:43.840
So, you know, we were we were always in conflict, always in conflict.

00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:48.000
There were moments which were beautiful, no doubt.

00:55:48.159 --> 00:55:50.239
Oh man, for 20 odd years, you know what I mean?

00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:52.400
So something was something there, obviously.

00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:58.400
Of course, of course it was, but for the most part, yeah, it was horrendous.

00:55:58.880 --> 00:55:59.840
It was horrendous.

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:02.639
And I'm not I'm not gonna sit in and sugarcoat it.

00:56:02.719 --> 00:56:05.599
I there was a few times when I clout it.

00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:07.679
That was wrong.

00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:11.440
If someone did that to my daughter, I'd fucking rip his head off.

00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:12.960
I'd rip his head off.

00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:23.599
Somebody posed a question, and I need to get this out today, uh, because somebody posed a question about Muslims that we're allowed to marry more than uh one wife, kind of thing.

00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:28.079
And somebody said to me, I don't mention no names, what if it was your daughter?

00:56:28.239 --> 00:56:31.199
I'm not answering that person, but I'm gonna answer it today on the podcast.

00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:37.199
I would our our faith allows it.

00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:49.840
And if it was my daughter today, yeah, as long as you can support both wives, yeah, and treat them equally, then yes, of course it's allowed.

00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:53.679
Even if it's my daughter, because for me, for me it's faith.

00:56:54.159 --> 00:56:55.599
That's the bottom line.

00:56:55.840 --> 00:56:56.480
You know what I mean?

00:56:56.639 --> 00:57:00.800
It's how we interpret it, yeah, kind of messes everything up kind of thing.

00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:02.159
Anyway, I don't know why I'm talking about that.

00:57:02.239 --> 00:57:02.639
That's a toy.

00:57:02.960 --> 00:57:03.760
No, no, no, I get it though.

00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:09.119
These are the things we're exploring today, those sort of cultural differences, aren't we?

00:57:09.199 --> 00:57:09.360
Really?

00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:09.920
Do you know?

00:57:10.000 --> 00:57:17.440
And again, it it I suppose when people are asking you those questions, it's because from their culture it is very much one woman.

00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:29.360
But this is what we do as British, Muslim, subcontinent, India where we come from, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, and Indians, Muslim.

00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:30.639
What do we do?

00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:33.039
We mix culture with religion.

00:57:33.920 --> 00:57:38.320
And nine times out of ten, yeah, it's culture that always gets it wrong.

00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:38.960
Okay, yeah.

00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:40.880
And we use it as religion.

00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:41.599
Yeah.

00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:47.519
Our religion, Islam, does not allow forced marriages.

00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:48.400
Okay, yeah.

00:57:48.960 --> 00:57:50.159
But condemns it.

00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:50.559
Yeah.

00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:52.400
It actually condemns it.

00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:54.719
And these are the things I'm learning.

00:57:55.280 --> 00:57:55.840
I've learned.

00:57:56.320 --> 00:57:57.119
But culture.

00:57:57.360 --> 00:58:02.400
Oh, you're getting married to and you know, it's not allowed.

00:58:02.719 --> 00:58:04.480
Islamically, it's not allowed.

00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:09.199
So that I kind of uh, you know, and then getting back to jail, you know what I mean?

00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:18.559
I I I became this guy, and you know, I you know, I I honest to God, some of the best days of my freaking life in jail.

00:58:18.639 --> 00:58:21.280
I'm not gonna lie to you, because I you know, I denied that.

00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:23.199
Well you you found recovery in jail, didn't you?

00:58:23.360 --> 00:58:24.159
I found recovery in jail.

00:58:25.119 --> 00:58:25.840
Taught me through that then.

00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:33.199
Founding recovery in in prison, and and how did it out again, like you said, you split the umbilical cords, so to speak, from from the wife.

00:58:33.440 --> 00:58:37.519
How did that look, getting recovery in jail and then continuing the abstinence in the community?

00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:41.440
So I started to learn about in jail, I started learning about my addiction.

00:58:41.679 --> 00:58:52.239
You know, I started attending groups and uh, you know, and I I was involved with a drug team, a spectrum at the time, really, really beautiful people.

00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:55.599
And you know, I I I I needed to get better.

00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:57.920
So I was exploring everything.

00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:01.840
And when this was put towards me kind of thing, you know what I mean?

00:59:02.079 --> 00:59:06.079
I thought, oh wow, is that what is this is this what's going on with me?

00:59:06.320 --> 00:59:07.679
Okay, let's have a bit of this.

00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:08.079
Yeah, yeah.

00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:08.960
Do you know what I mean?

00:59:09.199 --> 00:59:13.119
You know, because for me, I I need it, I need to get better, whichever way I can.

00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:29.280
And so that kind of led me to uh, you know, you know, exploring the NA and then the 12-step program and and all the you know the therapeutic side and the cognitive, you know, you know, the the the group work that they did before long, I I became a mentor.

00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:29.840
Yeah, yeah.

00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:30.719
You know what I mean?

00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:34.960
And I I was really, really enjoying it kind of thing because it was unraveling me.

00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:38.880
And by unraveling experiences, yeah, of course, yeah.

00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:46.079
And I thought, wow, this is this is that and that and uh about uh ten years ago I thought, you know what, I could do this.

00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:54.559
I seen other people in recovery, yeah, and they are where I am today, and I I'd look at them and think, you know what?

00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:57.760
If he's done it or if she's done it, why can't I do it?

00:59:58.239 --> 00:59:59.679
So that was the kind of drive.

01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:00.320
Yeah.

01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:02.559
Kind of thing, you know, for me, uh you know what I mean.

01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:05.760
And it's it's funny because one of my friends, Mr.

01:00:05.840 --> 01:00:16.719
Jackson, lovely man, he says, you know what, you've got a lot to give, but you need to be educated on recovery and what it means, kind of thing.

01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:18.960
So I went through the whole kind of process.

01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:21.360
Uh I did the 12-step programme.

01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:28.239
You know, I uh uh you know, I don't uh attend any meetings as regularly as I should, kind of thing.

01:00:28.320 --> 01:00:35.440
It's not you know, and I'm not I'm not I'm not gonna preach about it kind of thing, or some people swear it as gospel, you know, kind of kind of thing.

01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:43.519
For me, it's you know, I found other ways of channeling it kind of thing, but I do totally understand and appreciate it because it works for people kind of thing.

01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:47.920
I think one of the things I've learned from doing this series is recovery isn't just going to meetings.

01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:50.159
No, it's about the thing you put into it.

01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:57.119
So yeah, regardless whether you're going to meetings regular or not, as long as what you're putting that you've you know, the things that you learn into practice, yeah, then that's enough.

01:00:57.199 --> 01:01:08.559
And I think it for me, if I was in in a similar position, it'd be just knowing that safety net is there, that if I need it, if I do need the meeting, if I do need to talk to another team of recovery, it's there when I need it.

01:01:08.719 --> 01:01:10.239
And I think that would be my attitude towards that.

01:01:10.480 --> 01:01:11.920
Yeah, and that's exactly my attitude.

01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:13.440
Yeah, exactly my attitude.

01:01:13.599 --> 01:01:15.599
I don't I don't say that it's not for me.

01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:18.480
No, no, it's another tool, as far as I'm concerned.

01:01:18.800 --> 01:01:23.199
And anything for recovery is is is a positive and is a good thing.

01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:25.679
I'm never gonna knock it, no matter what what it is.

01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:30.239
Me being here today talking to you, you know what I mean, is part of that recovery.

01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:30.880
Absolutely, yeah.

01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:32.239
This is this is what this this is it.

01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:38.880
Yeah, but in terms of you know, obviously getting getting clean in the prison, was there a moment like the light bulb moment of right, I've got I've got to do it now?

01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:42.079
Yeah, or was it because to me it kind of sounds like a gradual thing that you can do?

01:01:42.239 --> 01:01:43.199
It was a gradual thing, yeah.

01:01:43.280 --> 01:01:45.199
It was yeah, that's yeah, good to work that.

01:01:45.440 --> 01:01:49.360
Yeah, it was it was some people have that no fuck, I've got to do it now, do you know?

01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:50.079
No, no, no.

01:01:50.159 --> 01:02:01.039
It was a gradual thing, and it kind of crept up on me, kind of thing, and and and the work that I'm doing right now kind of you know, like I think, you know, I was looking back, I think, you know what?

01:02:01.599 --> 01:02:03.440
This is this is me.

01:02:04.239 --> 01:02:08.239
So I couldn't figure out what was the purpose of me going through what I've gone through.

01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:09.519
What was it all about?

01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:12.960
Yeah, why did I go through freaking hell?

01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:18.639
And I thought that's what it is, it's for you to give it back, it doesn't belong to you.

01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:21.840
It doesn't, you know, you weren't meant to own this.

01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:24.960
Yeah, you had to go through that to pass the message on.

01:02:25.519 --> 01:02:26.320
I believe that.

01:02:26.480 --> 01:02:26.719
Yeah, yeah.

01:02:26.880 --> 01:02:42.239
I genuinely believe that, and and and I bet you know, and for me, it's you know, it's I used to ask myself, why are you this was a constant question to God, why are you putting me through this when I'd be rattling or in the gutter?

01:02:42.559 --> 01:02:50.480
What have I done that's so horrendous in life, or what am I going to do that is so horrendous in life that you're putting me through this?

01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:51.920
That was a question.

01:02:52.880 --> 01:03:05.440
I get it now because for me here to talk today about recovery, about look, there is a way out and there is hope.

01:03:05.840 --> 01:03:12.400
And that my dad used to say to me, he said, two things will happen to you either you'll be dead or you'll spend the rest of your life in jail.

01:03:13.039 --> 01:03:15.119
I'm here and I'm not in jail.

01:03:15.280 --> 01:03:16.559
Yeah, so it's working.

01:03:16.880 --> 01:03:19.360
There was a there was a third option there that didn't tell you.

01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:23.199
So this is the thing with my dad as well, he was very clever, very, very clever.

01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:25.280
He he'd say, You can't do this.

01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:27.440
Yeah, they'll reverse psychology.

01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:32.800
So you're too weak to do all that, and fucking no, I'd go out and fucking do it.

01:03:32.960 --> 01:03:33.519
You know what I mean?

01:03:33.679 --> 01:03:36.559
So it kind of went and it kind of worked, you know what I mean?

01:03:36.639 --> 01:03:43.679
And I I've gotta I've gotta I've gotta tell the world, my dad, what a fucking legend.

01:03:44.320 --> 01:03:49.199
Honest to God, he was a legend, he was a legend, what a man, honest to God.

01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:53.840
He's he's put me on a pedal stool that nothing and no one can take me off.

01:03:54.000 --> 01:03:56.880
And I've been waiting for that for the for the god knows how long.

01:03:57.280 --> 01:03:59.440
That's why I am quite I get it, yeah.

01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:07.199
I think now that you're in recovery, so obviously there's there's a lot of personal transformation that you've gone through over this journey.

01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:15.760
So now, how do you see yourself as not just as a man but as a Muslim and as someone who has lived through violence?

01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:26.159
What a beautiful I'm getting my hands are standing up, and this is this is this is this is the I'm gonna say this to you, uh Matt.

01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:27.920
This is why I'm here.

01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:31.440
Everything has come full circle.

01:04:31.519 --> 01:04:31.920
Yeah.

01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:42.000
Everything my religion, my recovery, my culture, my upbringing, everything has come and I've got it in my hand.

01:04:42.400 --> 01:04:43.440
That's my power.

01:04:43.519 --> 01:04:49.360
Yeah, and I will use it to the best of my abilities to each and every one.

01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:50.320
You know what I mean?

01:04:50.480 --> 01:04:52.639
If God, you know what I mean?

01:04:52.719 --> 01:04:53.440
I'm loaded.

01:04:53.519 --> 01:04:55.280
Yeah, I'm fully loaded.

01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:59.280
And there's nothing that you can put towards me and I can say, you know what?

01:04:59.360 --> 01:05:02.480
No, mate, let's try it this way, let's try it that way.

01:05:03.199 --> 01:05:07.119
Because when you've been through that much in life, nothing's gonna deter you.

01:05:07.280 --> 01:05:07.519
No, no.

01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:11.920
No matter who comes in, sits in front of you and says, Oh, blah, blah, blah.

01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:13.440
This no, mate, no.

01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:27.519
Compassion, kindness, understanding where they are and where they where they're going, not being big-headed, humility, these are the things that have that have kind of got kind of lost.

01:05:27.760 --> 01:05:28.559
No, no, no, no, no.

01:05:28.639 --> 01:05:29.920
You're no, you're bang on the money, really.

01:05:30.079 --> 01:05:30.960
It's it's exactly it.

01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:45.440
I mean, realistically, I suppose now, because there'll there will be people, you know, maybe from from from that culture that don't necessarily have someone that they can look at and talk to and understand.

01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:52.719
What message would you send to to young Muslim men who are struggling with addiction or who are as angry as you once were?

01:05:53.360 --> 01:06:04.079
Honestly, I I don't want to I I've got a message for them, but I I don't want to uh limit myself to just Muslim young men and women.

01:06:04.400 --> 01:06:07.599
I want to reach out to the rest of the bloody the whole world.

01:06:07.760 --> 01:06:08.559
Yeah, I get that, yeah.

01:06:08.719 --> 01:06:09.199
Do you get me?

01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:18.480
It's not just about Muslim men and young women, it's about anybody and everybody who is going through hell and and you know, and going through addiction.

01:06:19.280 --> 01:06:22.320
And and and and the message is simple.

01:06:22.880 --> 01:06:23.840
Keep fighting.

01:06:23.920 --> 01:06:25.280
Yeah, don't give up.

01:06:26.079 --> 01:06:33.199
You know, you will find your calling, you will find your peace, you will find, you will find that moment.

01:06:33.519 --> 01:06:43.840
Do not give up because I know, I know I'm many friends, many associates, should I say, who have OD'd, who have died, you know what I mean.

01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:49.920
I I've OD'd on several occasions and I was brought back, kind of thing.

01:06:50.159 --> 01:06:51.440
And you think there was a purpose to that?

01:06:51.599 --> 01:06:53.599
And there was a purpose to that, you know what I mean?

01:06:53.920 --> 01:06:59.519
So please, please, my message is please do not give up.

01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:03.280
And so sometimes you there's no other option.

01:07:03.519 --> 01:07:06.880
You feel as though there's no other option, but there's always a way.

01:07:07.360 --> 01:07:11.840
I won't be here talking to you today if there it if there wasn't hope.

01:07:12.320 --> 01:07:22.960
Because I was that person who, you know, I went out once, I was I became so desperate, I bought a quarter of heroin, I said, I'm gonna inject myself, I'm gonna die today.

01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:26.079
And I I was I was gonna do it.

01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:29.440
Long be all I couldn't find a needle that day.

01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:34.960
I went everywhere, could not, in the end, and I had to freaking put it on the foil.

01:07:36.239 --> 01:07:38.800
But there was a reason why you couldn't find the needle that day.

01:07:39.119 --> 01:07:40.639
Yeah, there was a reason why I couldn't find a needle.

01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:42.320
I was I was I was gonna do it that day.

01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:47.679
Other days I I've took overdoses with pills and whatnot because I'd had enough.

01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:50.320
I gave up that many times.

01:07:50.639 --> 01:07:55.679
Every time I fell, I give up, and I've fallen over a thousand times.

01:07:56.159 --> 01:07:58.880
I'm no big man in reality.

01:07:59.039 --> 01:08:02.000
Yeah, I crumbled at every stage.

01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:03.360
You know what I mean?

01:08:03.519 --> 01:08:05.440
And and I I'll own up to that.

01:08:05.679 --> 01:08:08.000
What people might say, oh, you're this and that.

01:08:08.079 --> 01:08:11.199
No, mate, I failed miserably every time.

01:08:11.440 --> 01:08:13.280
Yeah, people only often see the success, don't they?

01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:15.760
They don't see the failure behind what got to the success.

01:08:16.079 --> 01:08:16.319
Yeah.

01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:22.960
Um I appreciate that, Taz, and thank you for coming on the Believe in People podcast.

01:08:23.119 --> 01:08:23.279
Yeah.

01:08:23.439 --> 01:08:30.560
I like to end all my podcasts with a series of ten random questions, completely irrelevant to anything that we've spoken about so far.

01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:33.359
And uh my first question is what is your favourite word?

01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:34.640
Peace.

01:08:34.960 --> 01:08:37.039
Least favourite words hate.

01:08:37.439 --> 01:08:39.039
Sound or noise do you love?

01:08:40.079 --> 01:08:40.640
Rain.

01:08:40.880 --> 01:08:42.319
Sound or noise do you hate?

01:08:44.880 --> 01:08:45.680
Yapping.

01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:46.720
Yapping.

01:08:46.960 --> 01:08:48.560
What's your favourite curse word?

01:08:49.199 --> 01:08:49.680
Curse word.

01:08:49.840 --> 01:08:50.880
Yeah, swear word.

01:08:51.920 --> 01:08:53.359
You dropped a few today.

01:08:55.680 --> 01:08:58.479
Um, I don't know, I've got quite a few actually.

01:08:59.039 --> 01:08:59.439
Pick one.

01:08:59.920 --> 01:09:00.560
Pick one.

01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:02.159
You know what?

01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:06.079
Oh piss off.

01:09:07.439 --> 01:09:10.159
It's universal and it is exactly what it means.

01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:16.000
If you could do any job in the world, uh what would it be?

01:09:16.319 --> 01:09:17.279
This, what I'm doing right now.

01:09:17.600 --> 01:09:17.920
You don't know.

01:09:20.720 --> 01:09:23.279
What's the worst job you can imagine doing?

01:09:23.600 --> 01:09:24.479
Oh god.

01:09:25.279 --> 01:09:34.880
Living a 95 mundane robotic job, yeah, with no purpose and no frickin' end, that majority of the world are doing.

01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:36.720
No freaking chance, you keep that.

01:09:36.880 --> 01:09:38.560
Tell me something that excites you.

01:09:39.359 --> 01:09:41.680
Life every day, getting up.

01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:43.840
Tell me something that doesn't excite you.

01:09:45.520 --> 01:09:46.560
Boring people.

01:09:46.720 --> 01:09:56.399
And then lastly, obviously a bit of a different one for you, but we we often ask uh, once you die, what would you like to hear God say when you're arrived at the Pearley gates?

01:09:56.640 --> 01:09:59.039
Oh wow, that's a that's a good one.

01:09:59.680 --> 01:10:01.279
Son, well done.

01:10:01.439 --> 01:10:02.640
Yeah, you did your bit.

01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:03.199
Brilliant.

01:10:03.359 --> 01:10:05.199
Thank you very much for joining me on Believe in People test.

01:10:05.680 --> 01:10:05.840
Thank you.

01:10:06.079 --> 01:10:06.319
Thank you.

01:10:06.479 --> 01:10:11.680
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01:10:11.840 --> 01:10:14.399
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01:10:14.720 --> 01:10:19.359
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