Dec. 8, 2023

Claira Hermet: Social Anxiety, Sober Nights Out, Misogyny Grifting, Eating Disorders, The Orgasm Gap & Her Role as a Social Media Influencer

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Matt and Claira embark on a profound exploration of the human experience in this episode, delving into the intricate dynamics of social anxiety, navigating sober nights out, and grappling with a decade-long battle against an eating disorder.

Throughout the conversation, Matt and Claira candidly examine the influence of labels, trauma, and emotional triggers on mental well-being, while shedding light on the concerning trend of 'misogyny grifting.'

The discussion also delves into the gender-specific need for heightened awareness of street safety, particularly for women, as they dissect strategies to evade predators and navigate the complex landscape of OnlyFans culture.

You can find Claira on :

BBC Radio London
Instagram @missclairahermet
TikTok: @clairahermet

Click here to text our host, Matt, directly!

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📩 Contact: robbie@believeinpeoplepodcast.com
🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” by Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)

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🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
🎛️ Producer: Robbie Lawson
🏢 Network: ReNew

WEBVTT

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This is a Renew original recording.

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Hello and welcome to the Believe in People podcast.

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My name is Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or as I like to say, your facilitator.

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Today I speak with Clara Hamer and we discuss a range of topics from social anxiety to nights out when sober.

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We'll be exploring eating disorders, confront the trend of misogyny grifting and navigate panic attacks, labels and the OnlyFans culture.

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So first of all, thank you for coming on the Believe in People podcast.

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Can you please introduce yourself?

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My name's Clara Hammett.

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I am a presenter, content creator, and self-love and confidence coach.

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I love that.

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Self-love and confidence.

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I've got topics that I want to talk about today.

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So we've got sobriety, overcoming social anxiety, rejecting unrealistic narratives.

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But the one that I am really interested in is that combination of overcoming social anxiety, and sobriety.

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I think I've never spoke about social anxiety with people before, but it's a topic that is quite prevalent in my life.

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So I've never really met anybody else with it other than, I mean, my wife has it pretty bad and coupled with the sobriety element with it, because I guess they two go hand in hand.

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Often with social anxiety, you need to have a little bit of a drink before you do something socially in order to relax.

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So let's talk about those two things first and and a little bit more about that.

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Yeah, so I, it's funny because the reason that I'm on the podcast is Robbie, who's your producer, heard me talking at a Radio Academy event and I was talking about how I got into presenting and the story basically all is based around a glass of wine or quite a lot of wine and that's the reason that I got into presenting essentially because I was so shy and I guess I would call it shy at that time but now it would be social anxiety and I think that I just didn't realize, I didn't even know what anxiety was.

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I'm 40 now.

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So, you know, if we're talking about when I was 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, I just thought I was really shy and I struggled to make conversation with people.

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I just felt like all of my muscle, when I was in social situations, you know, my muscles, I wouldn't know the right, you know, moves to make or how to have a conversation.

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I used to struggle to make phone calls.

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It was all just really difficult for me unless I'd had a drink.

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And then if I had a drink I then kind of you know shed that shell and just relaxed and could be the version of myself that I felt like I was if that made sense or that I was maybe if I was with close friends or family and And so I think that alcohol in that sense really became a crutch.

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And even the first TV show that I did, I drank a couple of glasses of wine before I did it because I don't think I've been able to do it otherwise in the way that I did.

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And then I started interviewing people and the same thing.

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Like sometimes I would have a drink beforehand just so that I could, you know, like feel like myself, which sounds really wild to say that.

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And it's something that then I think you just get used to doing.

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And you become reliant on because it just pushes that feeling down and you get into that space of comfortability.

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And so I haven't had a drink now for like over two months.

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And it was just I decided that I was going to go back.

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sober and not have refined sugar until Christmas day and I've actually been out quite a lot and you know in social situations I've been to a club I've been to different places and I'm really enjoying it because I feel like I'm now a different version of myself I'm not the same person that I was 20 years ago

00:03:36.330 --> 00:04:03.114
yeah it's interesting because I teach alcohol awareness training and part of one of the modules that we do is we talk about reasons for drinking and we have experimental recreational and dependence Dependence But talking about dependence is it actually transcends that.

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And for me, this is where the social anxiety comes in.

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I could argue that what you was going through was dependent drinking because you couldn't socialize or function without having a drink beforehand.

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You couldn't do the things.

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It's basically dependence just means you need to have a drink in order to do what you want to do.

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And it could be simple things like making phone calls and things like that.

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But the interesting thing about this now is now you're an influencer, right?

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So that social anxiety that you have is, I guess, you've had to push that to a side in order to put so much of your life out there for...

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Well, for people to see.

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Yeah.

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I think it's really dissipated as I've got older.

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Like it's something about a comfortability within myself, I guess, that just allows me to be like, right, this is me and, you know, it's okay.

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And I think it's like that kind of giving myself that reassurance that allows me to kind of take up space, that allows me to feel reassured, that allows me to trust myself in those situations.

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And, you know, I've had to practice, like it's taken me years and, you know, whenever I talk to people about kind of the fact that I was really shy and, and then, you know, people might've seen some of my content.

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They're like, how did you get from there to there?

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And I, I have done, I think pretty much most of the stuff that I did for about 10 years, just scared the shit out of me.

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Like, and I, and I felt so uncomfortable and so, like so it was just horrible but I wanted to do it because I knew that the that the payoff was going to be you know great if it was making video content you know I did hidden camera stuff I did all kinds of things and I'd feel like sick with anxiety before doing it but I just knew that the only way to get to the other side was to get through it and for a long time that's how every single thing that I did felt and and the payoff is now it doesn't feel like that you know I can sit and have a conversation with you like I host my own podcast with my friends and I noticed that my radio show whatever guests I have now I can reassure myself that I have the ability to be able to you know host and hold a conversation with them and that's that is real growth for me I think but I do think it comes from identifying what's going on.

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Like I said to you, I didn't know that was social anxiety.

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I just thought it was shy.

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My mum was shy.

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My brother's shy.

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I'm just shy.

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I didn't try and pick it apart or look at my limiting beliefs and what was actually happening at that point.

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So I think once I started to do that and really work on myself, some of it started to kind of fall away.

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But again...

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I think that unless you're willing to get outside of your comfort zone and do things whilst feeling the social anxiety and do things whilst feeling the fear, you can't reassure yourself that you're going to be okay.

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What does practicing it look like then?

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Because obviously, I mean, it's not something that's just come with age.

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You haven't just turned 40 and now it's all gone sort of thing.

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What does practicing look like when overcoming something?

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Because as someone who struggles with anxiety myself, I'm finding it very hard to...

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get past it and i like to it's a process yeah but at the same time i don't know what it is that i'm supposed to be doing in that process i'm just trying different things and hoping it works so for you in terms of overcoming social anxiety what is the practicing element of that looking like like what was that process i guess in in self-love and in increasing confidence as well

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yeah i've had loads of therapy yeah i'm different at different points in my life i think When I was kind of a teenager, I had really bad bulimia.

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I remember my dad just giving me a leaflet for a therapist and being like, you need to go here.

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And that was it.

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And I went and she was not a good therapist.

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You know, looking back and reflecting now what makes a good therapist.

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She just wanted to talk about her anorexic daughter, which wasn't great for me.

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And so that put me off therapy for ages.

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And when I actually sought therapy for myself at different points in my life, which is, you know, something that I'll do even now.

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It's like, oh, shit, I need to work on this.

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If something comes up or it's there and I'll go and do that.

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I think it looks like, yeah.

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doing, I went traveling for 10 months on my own.

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Like I was at 32.

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I quit my jobs in London and I was like, fuck it.

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I'm just going to go.

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Cause there was this little voice in my head that was like, go traveling.

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And I thought that's bonkers.

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I've never wanted to go traveling.

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I don't want to put a backpack on my back.

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I like staying in nice hotels and going on a nice holiday.

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And yeah, I just, in the end I was like, right, we're just going to go.

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And I was so scared.

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And I do think it is that it's like, it is understanding what, you know, what is kind of maybe triggering the anxiety or what is the fear that is beneath and underneath the anxiety?

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Like, what is it?

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What is the fear that's there?

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No matter how, you know, big or small it is, it comes from somewhere.

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I feel like there's, you know, like there's a source or there's a trigger or there's a something, you know, for it.

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And understanding that can be really helpful because then when you're in that scenario where the anxiety is triggered, you can, you know, kind of coach yourself out of it.

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There's so many, Funnily enough, when I feel anxious, I always tap my collarbone.

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So there's EFT, which is like emotional freedom technique.

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So it's like a series of tapping on your meridians, like your energy centers.

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And I used to get anxiety really badly when I was driving.

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And so...

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I can't remember what the girl's name is.

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She was on the Bake Off and she was on my radio show and she said she had really bad social anxiety.

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And when she was in uni, she was just like, this is going to ruin my life.

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So she just started talking to people and she would do it over and over again.

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She's like, I might have been really weird and said the craziest stuff, but it's how I got myself out of it.

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And I think that's what I've done as well.

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And when I say practising...

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I would go to supermarkets and have a conversation with the person at the checkout, like force myself into conversations with different people because I wanted to learn how to have communication and make it comfortable.

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If I was going to do like a screen test or I had a meeting on my journey there, Either I would take some things that happened to me on the journey that could be conversation starters, or I think of two or three questions I could use to get me into the conversation because then that would like dissipate me and make me feel better.

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I also find that vocalizing, I feel anxious to people around me really helps.

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So when I first started doing the radio show for BBC Radio London, I had really bad anxiety and I would be on air.

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And I'd ask someone a question and while they were answering me, I would think my mind's blank.

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What am I gonna ask them next?

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What am I gonna ask them next?

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And I'd feel it like coming up, up, up.

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And I'd got as if I was gonna have a panic attack.

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And what I started to do is verbalize to my producer before we started the show that I was feeling like that.

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And then I'd do it on air.

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So I'd build it into the conversation where it would be like, you know, coming back into doing radio again.

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Like I've found myself experiencing anxiety.

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Like I find it, I get it when I'm on air.

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What about you?

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Like, how do you deal with stressful situations?

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So just even saying it out loud.

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So I think there's lots of different ways.

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But I feel like for me, I guess the social anxiety was always there.

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The panic attacks and stuff started after my sister got ill.

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So my mum died of breast cancer when I was nine and my sister got breast cancer at 25 and died at 31.

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So when my sister was diagnosed with breast cancer, I think that just like snapped something in me where it was just the fear of losing her as well.

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So I think that they're two different experiences as well.

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So that social anxiety versus, you know, like anxiety and panic attacks.

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Pad

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the lot, mate.

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Do you know what?

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The strangest thing with all that is before you even mentioned it then, I don't know why this is how I'm feeling right now.

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I could just feel my body.

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Right now, I'm sat here and I can feel my body getting hot.

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And I'm starting to feel like something's coming up.

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I've never had this when I'm doing a podcast.

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And it's not because I'm doing the podcast.

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I can just feel these different elements of anxiety coming on.

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And I think it's just because we're talking about it.

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And just before you said that, I was like, I'm going to have to duck out this room.

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I'm going to have to leave.

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But I can.

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What you were saying then with the radio presenters.

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And I guess it's not fear of holding a conversation.

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I don't even know what's bringing it on.

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So when you were saying then that you've got to...

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you know, look at what causes anxiety and look at what causes those triggers.

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For me still, I have no idea.

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Have you always been socially anxious?

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I mean, it's not even so much socially anxious.

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It's just a general anxiety that can come on out of nowhere.

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And I think I catastrophize every single situation.

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So travel is one of them things for me.

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So yesterday, I woke up I looked outside it was snowing and I was like oh that's it the trains are going to be cancelled they're going to be delayed I'm going to be stuck at the train station this is going to be awful and then Robbie had texted me saying do you know Trains are all okay.

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Everything's all right.

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I was like, no worries.

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So we get to the train station, 20 minutes delay.

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And I found that once I'm in those moments, I'm not too bad.

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But it might be because again, like as someone who experiences anxiety and we're talking about it, even that I suppose could, you know, you could start, am I feeling that?

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Am I not feeling that?

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And that questioning in and of itself is kind of like, you know, it can be anxiety.

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But I instantly felt better when you said, I'll tell my producers, I'll make it part of the conversation.

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I was like, I can do all that.

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I can make this part of the conversation now because there's a solution.

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And again, now I've shared a bit of my experience and I'm starting to feel a bit better.

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So the counsel I'm doing at the moment, I don't know if you've experienced this yourself, but I often find that when I'm not experiencing anxiety and trying to talk about it with someone, it just doesn't seem important.

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It's almost like you downplay it and your anxiety feels daft.

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But when you're in that moment of a panic attack, it's real, it's terrifying, it's scary.

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I don't think it's daft at all.

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I think it's, you know, it's very real.

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But I think it's, with therapy, I think you have to be kind of willing to, like, look at that part of you that experiences anxiety or look at that part of you that's in pain like for example I've had this conversation with my brother so many times because my mum died when we were kids and there was never any space for us to grieve or to deal with it we kind of had repressed a lot of that and it would just rear its head whenever and so I would go to therapy and be like I could really articulate it and you know talk about it and you know explain it all but essentially that's the part of me that doesn't need help it's kind of like that repressed emotion that needed help so I had to be willing to you know bring that part of me to therapy or when I'm in that moment you know like journaling or doing whatever you know I can in that moment to try and work out like what are these thoughts because it can be so overwhelming and I mean, I think essentially there's a book that someone, it's funny because when I started at BBC, I had a presenter coach just for like a couple of sessions and I was telling her about being anxious on air.

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And she told me about this book that's an acronym.

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So it's D-A-R-E, so DARE.

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And I brought the book and I never read it because I started to feel better just by buying the book.

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But she told me how brilliant it was.

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And one of the things that she said to me as well is like, when we have anxiety, we always try and fight it.

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So we get into a battle with it.

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And she's like, what happens if you just let it come?

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Like, what happens if you just let it be there and you just let it, you know, what happens?

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Then what happens?

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And I found that really interesting and really interesting concept.

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And I've definitely, when I'm in a kind of space where I'm like, I can do that in this moment, in this space, I've definitely done that sometimes and I think that that can be like quite helpful but I guess I used to get the panic attacks for me would happen when I was driving and when I was live on air when I was doing TV so I just stopped talking and I'd have people in my ear like are you okay because I felt like I was going to die or I was going to collapse or something was going to happen at that point I was in my like mid 20s it got so bad that I had I was at my dad's and I I'd convinced myself there would Oh, well...

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Coming back upstairs and sitting with my dad in the lounge and then I was like, I can't feel my legs.

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I'm having a massive panic attack and calling an ambulance and being taken to A&E because I was convinced I was dying and something was really wrong with me.

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And then I went and paid to have a brain scan, an MRI, and they're like, there's nothing wrong with your brain.

00:16:58.748 --> 00:17:05.534
At which point I had to concede and say, shit, it's a panic attack to the point that I took myself to hospital because I really believed that, you know.

00:17:05.574 --> 00:17:10.464
So I think that these things definitely happen I mean, it sounds like you're doing all of the right stuff.

00:17:10.566 --> 00:17:12.694
You're doing therapy, you're doing all of those things.

00:17:12.755 --> 00:17:13.719
But I do think it's like...

00:17:14.465 --> 00:17:25.435
you know, I don't know for you when it started or like, you know, but I can pinpoint like when anxiety started for me and what that tipping point was where I guess it was just too like emotionally too much.

00:17:25.476 --> 00:17:38.666
And I think that as you start to maybe like learn how to kind of deal with any traumas or things that have happened in the past and you start to process those as that load lightens, I think it does just get easier.

00:17:38.707 --> 00:17:47.974
What I will say is I really think you can change your like your thought processes and And the way to do that is to like become really self-aware.

00:17:47.994 --> 00:17:55.040
Like it sounds like you're quite self-aware anyway, what's happening with your thoughts, but rather than just allowing them, like I've had to be like, no, stop, we're not doing that.

00:17:55.181 --> 00:17:55.642
No, stop.

00:17:55.682 --> 00:17:56.082
We're not doing it.

00:17:56.102 --> 00:18:00.145
And just bring myself back every time to like, what is the actual reality?

00:18:00.306 --> 00:18:01.646
Like what's the actual reality?

00:18:01.846 --> 00:18:07.031
And that, you know, we go to like the worst case scenario and that's what's kind of bringing the anxiety.

00:18:07.071 --> 00:18:15.858
So sometimes it's like, no, let's bring it back to like reality and get also getting grounded in the moment and being present because that's, It's a made up future.

00:18:15.898 --> 00:18:16.500
It doesn't exist.

00:18:16.539 --> 00:18:17.059
It's not real.

00:18:17.099 --> 00:18:22.704
And so I think we have to realize as well about anxiety that actually it's just trying to keep us safe.

00:18:22.884 --> 00:18:25.907
Like that's all it's trying to do is just, you know, it's there for a reason.

00:18:25.948 --> 00:18:26.667
It has a function.

00:18:26.688 --> 00:18:33.875
And I think even hearing you like talk about your kind of childhood and experiencing anxiety, like as a teenager, imagine if you've got the right help then.

00:18:33.914 --> 00:18:44.624
Like imagine if you'd had the advice and, you know, therapy you're getting now as a child, you'd probably have, you know, really different mechanisms because also things become, you know, habitual and things become ingrained.

00:18:44.624 --> 00:18:45.315
ingrained, right?

00:18:46.753 --> 00:18:50.018
it, then it's like, well, no, I've got now I've got to correct it and I've got to put it right.

00:18:50.057 --> 00:18:50.880
And that's all you're doing.

00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:53.363
But maybe that's your, like, maybe that's your lesson.

00:18:53.403 --> 00:18:53.843
Yeah.

00:18:54.084 --> 00:19:01.814
And maybe that's what makes you so great at what you do, because you can talk from a real genuine place of experiencing stuff and that makes you authentic and that makes people listen to you.

00:19:01.834 --> 00:19:05.298
And without that experience, you wouldn't be able to do it and you wouldn't be you.

00:19:05.338 --> 00:19:08.102
So in a way you then have to be like, okay, anxiety.

00:19:08.143 --> 00:19:08.323
Cool.

00:19:08.363 --> 00:19:08.843
Thank you.

00:19:08.863 --> 00:19:12.028
You know, and sometimes even, you know, I'll do that with stuff.

00:19:12.067 --> 00:19:13.209
It's like, look, thank you for being here.

00:19:13.269 --> 00:19:13.930
I appreciate you.

00:19:13.950 --> 00:19:16.292
I know you're only here to keep me safe, but I've got this.

00:19:16.574 --> 00:19:16.733
Yeah.

00:19:17.250 --> 00:19:17.770
I like that.

00:19:18.971 --> 00:19:19.833
Better than my therapist.

00:19:21.335 --> 00:19:26.079
I think I've done like three sessions now, and it's been about three hours, and we've done better.

00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:31.385
In the last 30 seconds, that knowledge was probably better than anything that's been said to me so far.

00:19:32.807 --> 00:19:37.692
We've talked a little bit about, obviously, social anxiety, but let's talk more about the sobriety element of it as well.

00:19:37.752 --> 00:19:42.178
So recently being sober for two months, you said last night that you went out for a few drinks.

00:19:42.218 --> 00:19:43.378
Well, you didn't go out for a few drinks.

00:19:43.398 --> 00:19:45.701
You went out with friends until like 3 o'clock in the morning.

00:19:45.922 --> 00:19:46.142
Yeah.

00:19:46.433 --> 00:19:49.175
How do you find being in those environments sober?

00:19:49.717 --> 00:19:50.336
I'm enjoying it.

00:19:50.436 --> 00:19:51.117
I'm going to be honest.

00:19:51.157 --> 00:19:51.357
Yeah.

00:19:51.438 --> 00:19:58.664
And I think, I think also that I, it's like my body picks up on other people's energy, like the good, the good part of it.

00:19:58.724 --> 00:20:03.048
So I kind of feel a little bit silly and playful just because I'm in that space and in that energy.

00:20:03.087 --> 00:20:07.853
And I do think because I feel way more confident, like I used to need a drink to be able to dance.

00:20:07.932 --> 00:20:09.814
I used to need a drink to be able to talk to people.

00:20:10.375 --> 00:20:12.876
Whereas now it's just like, oh no, I can talk to people.

00:20:13.057 --> 00:20:13.637
I can dance.

00:20:13.718 --> 00:20:14.637
I can have a good time.

00:20:14.679 --> 00:20:58.046
The only thing I will say is my feet really hurt yeah because you don't notice it when you've had a drink so yeah so I like the shoes that I wore last night I was like these are so comfortable and they were fine for the first four hours and then I was like oh my god there's no alcohol to take the edge off but other than that it's been like it's you know it's nice and watching other people I think there's you're more aware of everything like you're way more aware of everything so when there's kind of like danger I guess as well you know people are getting more aggressive with alcohol and stuff you definitely noticed that but for the most part it's been that kind of fun and playful side of things it's quite you know it's nice to watch people if they're you know they're having a good time and being you know being sensible within reason i

00:20:58.086 --> 00:20:58.366
guess

00:20:59.086 --> 00:21:19.499
um but i i just i've enjoyed it i think more than when i'm drinking because i wake up without hangover yeah um it doesn't when i have hangovers now as well as i've got older i get real bad anxiety like horrible anxiety that lasts for I just feel crappy and it just takes so long to recover that I'm just like, I don't want to do that to myself anymore.

00:21:20.119 --> 00:21:21.942
And this was only supposed to be until Christmas.

00:21:22.482 --> 00:21:29.153
And I know that my dad and his partner are big drinkers and they're really expecting me to drink on Christmas Day.

00:21:29.233 --> 00:21:30.536
But honestly, I don't know if I will.

00:21:31.958 --> 00:21:33.559
Because I just, I don't think I need to.

00:21:33.601 --> 00:21:38.188
No, I mean, it's one of the things where my daughter's nearly two.

00:21:38.508 --> 00:21:39.509
And since having her...

00:21:39.938 --> 00:22:16.766
i've barely drank anything over the last two years but i don't like putting a label on it like committing to saying right i wouldn't be sober now because once i've put a label on something i'll want to do it even yeah exactly i'm trapped but i'll want to do it even more as well so dry january i've probably um i had a i had a beer last night with my meal um first beer i've had in in months sort of thing i didn't even think about i just thought that was it yeah i'll have one But if I put a label on it, such as when people do try January, I'd feel like, oh, I really want to have a drink now because I'm committing to trying to do, you know, but I've probably went September, October, November and February.

00:22:17.698 --> 00:22:19.298
Actually, no, we've only just started in December, haven't we?

00:22:19.338 --> 00:22:21.641
But still, I've got all that time, bought a drink.

00:22:21.741 --> 00:22:27.365
So do you find that there's more pressure to it now you're labelling it as something, as sobriety or anything

00:22:28.527 --> 00:22:29.048
like that?

00:22:29.067 --> 00:22:29.548
I don't know.

00:22:30.009 --> 00:22:34.813
I think with me, I just decide that I'm going to do something and then I do it.

00:22:34.853 --> 00:22:40.037
I mean, I wish I could be like this in all areas of my life because I think the area that I lack kind of consistency is like my work life.

00:22:40.116 --> 00:22:40.377
Yeah,

00:22:40.897 --> 00:22:40.978
yeah.

00:22:41.298 --> 00:22:45.642
But I think it's because I want to prove to myself that I can.

00:22:45.922 --> 00:22:46.222
Yeah, yeah.

00:22:46.363 --> 00:23:04.967
And so when I've made the decision that to prove to myself that i can then that's it yeah i'm i'm doing it for myself yeah and it becomes like this is project me and this is what i've decided i'm going to do so i'm there and i think yeah like i guess it's weird isn't it because I've been drinking since I was 15, maybe a bit younger.

00:23:05.468 --> 00:23:08.692
And, you know, going clubbing since I was 15.

00:23:08.752 --> 00:23:11.597
And the two things go part and parcel.

00:23:11.657 --> 00:23:15.403
And it's almost like, especially in this country, when you're British, it's like a...

00:23:15.704 --> 00:23:16.246
It's cultural, isn't it?

00:23:16.266 --> 00:23:17.027
Yeah, it's like cultural.

00:23:17.067 --> 00:23:18.308
It's something that we do.

00:23:18.348 --> 00:23:20.752
The binge drinking, the going out, the getting drunk.

00:23:21.173 --> 00:23:21.875
And I'm not going to lie.

00:23:21.894 --> 00:23:22.957
I've enjoyed all of it.

00:23:23.017 --> 00:23:25.000
I've had a great time, you know, doing it.

00:23:25.099 --> 00:23:28.085
But, you know, people don't love and like me.

00:23:28.577 --> 00:23:31.682
when I don't drink, then they're not my people.

00:23:31.722 --> 00:23:32.824
Exactly.

00:23:32.944 --> 00:23:35.848
And I just don't think I want to do it to myself anymore.

00:23:35.888 --> 00:23:37.330
I mean, I guess I'm a little bit like you.

00:23:37.371 --> 00:23:38.792
I'm not saying I'm never drinking again.

00:23:38.833 --> 00:23:39.294
Yeah, yeah.

00:23:39.634 --> 00:23:41.317
At this point.

00:23:41.356 --> 00:23:43.820
But this is exactly what I did when I became vegan as well.

00:23:44.040 --> 00:23:44.181
That's

00:23:44.481 --> 00:23:46.023
what I was going to ask you about the veganism.

00:23:46.044 --> 00:23:46.865
Because again, like...

00:23:47.713 --> 00:23:50.679
I'm currently, you know, trying to cut little bits of meat out of my diary, even though...

00:23:50.699 --> 00:23:51.740
I keep saying diary.

00:23:51.760 --> 00:23:52.342
I've done that twice.

00:23:52.481 --> 00:23:54.526
I keep trying to cut meat out of my diet when I can.

00:23:55.367 --> 00:23:57.791
But if I put it into...

00:23:58.153 --> 00:24:03.281
If I'd label it and said, right, I'm vegetarian, I'd find it just really difficult.

00:24:03.342 --> 00:24:03.422
Just

00:24:03.461 --> 00:24:03.843
don't do it,

00:24:03.942 --> 00:24:04.063
though.

00:24:04.083 --> 00:24:04.503
Exactly.

00:24:04.624 --> 00:24:04.924
You don't

00:24:04.964 --> 00:24:05.786
have to give yourself

00:24:05.806 --> 00:24:06.086
a label.

00:24:06.106 --> 00:24:06.567
No, exactly.

00:24:06.607 --> 00:24:09.573
And that's where so many of...

00:24:10.306 --> 00:25:07.391
so much of what we do comes in because for us we work in drug and alcohol treatment so for a lot of people that come into services with alcohol dependency the rule is you can't drink again because your mind is just not wired in a way where you can detox from alcohol dependency and go out and just have one drink there's no such thing as just having one drink because it's often related to the reasons for the drink in terms of trauma and an example being I worked with a lad heroin addict for years got himself clean doing really well and then he said to me but i am he said i'm still drinking i was like okay that's fine you know drinking was never your problem but drinking quickly became his problem because the reason for drinking or the reason for using his substances was in the same way that you know smoking or injecting himself with heroin felt like a little bit of a warm hug he's now getting that warm hug feeling from alcohol Next thing we knew, a few months down the line, we're treating for alcohol dependence as well.

00:25:07.471 --> 00:25:14.060
So it's often the trauma beforehand and the reasons for use where we have to say, look, it's complete absence for you.

00:25:14.101 --> 00:25:15.363
That's the only thing that's going to work.

00:25:15.542 --> 00:25:18.567
But again, it's never our decision to say that to someone.

00:25:18.607 --> 00:25:21.772
We have to help them come to that conclusion themselves.

00:25:21.853 --> 00:25:24.277
I think that's where people get a little bit confused about what we do.

00:25:25.122 --> 00:25:30.807
reality or harm reduction service if you're going to use drugs here's how you do it safely you're going to drink here's how you keep yourself safe

00:25:31.567 --> 00:26:02.435
i guess it's maybe the word addict you know it's like identification with it it's like okay that's that's why like that it you know it's kind of it gives them a reason for why maybe they feel like that and i think if i'm really honest like my addiction um probably has definitely been food like i've had so many you know issues with food and i think that started like when my mom died as well became my current my source of comfort you know like overeating eating kind of you know like sugary foods all of that kind of stuff

00:26:02.556 --> 00:26:10.765
I bet that's partly down to the age you was at though at nine years old you're not going to be on the you're not going to be on the truncated sort of thing so the only thing you can really indulge on is sweets

00:26:11.125 --> 00:26:26.723
and sugar and then that got progressively you know worse and worse and I think that's where the you know bulimia came from and the lack of control that I had as well I think with eating disorders it's about you know being able to you're especially if you're still in your childhood you're not making decisions everything's out of control and you want to feel like you've got some kind of control.

00:26:26.743 --> 00:26:29.571
And it just manifested in that way.

00:26:29.612 --> 00:26:41.030
But again, even with the veganism, it was really interesting to me that I could do that because As much as I'd say that I, you know, stopped regularly making myself sick when I was 25.

00:26:41.310 --> 00:26:51.523
So I was doing that from 15 to 25, like all the time to a point where when I was kind of in my late teens, sometimes I was spending, you know, 100 pounds a day on food to eat and throw up.

00:26:51.644 --> 00:26:55.127
So it was like when I look at it, I'm just like, oh, it was like a drug addiction.

00:26:55.167 --> 00:26:56.210
It was so expensive.

00:26:56.250 --> 00:26:57.090
That's what I was doing.

00:26:57.111 --> 00:27:02.107
Like, and if I, you know, if I'd, done that, if I'd binged that day, I wouldn't go out.

00:27:02.147 --> 00:27:03.489
If I had plans, I'd cancel everything.

00:27:03.528 --> 00:27:05.770
It really impacted and affected my life.

00:27:06.551 --> 00:27:10.255
And then once I managed to get rid of the making myself sick bit, there was still the binge bit.

00:27:10.915 --> 00:27:13.077
And how old was you during these sort of periods?

00:27:13.258 --> 00:27:20.763
So I think that when I was spending loads of money, that was kind of like my late teens, early twenties, really, that kind of time where it was really bad.

00:27:20.804 --> 00:27:26.970
And then, you know, I would always, every day I'd wake up and be like, I'm not going to do it today.

00:27:27.009 --> 00:27:29.152
And I just, it was like I didn't have any control.

00:27:29.172 --> 00:27:53.317
It just took over me and I'd be back in that place again and I was stuck in that cycle and it was horrible and I felt what I'd started as you know making me feel in control I felt completely out of control of and yeah eventually I managed to kind of get a you know grip on it and I did have a therapy that I went and found and I did there's my favorite place in the world is a Caribbean island called St.

00:27:53.336 --> 00:28:28.328
Vincent it's the Vincent and the Grenadines and I went there with my friend for the first time when I was 23 and when I was there for two weeks i didn't make myself sick and it just was like and it's such a like green vibrant beautiful place it's a tight we're on one of the grenadine islands called beckway it's tiny and um it just felt i don't know if it was healing i don't know what it was but i didn't do it and so it really was like this light bulb moment where it's like well if i didn't do that for two weeks there i could not do it when i come home i guess there's more triggers at home um But it definitely was a way of like, I miss my mom.

00:28:28.528 --> 00:28:29.010
I eat food.

00:28:29.111 --> 00:28:29.813
I miss my sister.

00:28:29.932 --> 00:28:30.413
I eat food.

00:28:30.493 --> 00:28:36.308
When my sister was ill, which was six and a half years, you know, I'd go and be with her at hospital and be all happy and smiley.

00:28:36.409 --> 00:28:41.000
And then, you know, come home, be bawling my eyes out and just eating food to try and, you know.

00:28:41.020 --> 00:28:42.744
So I think.

00:28:43.394 --> 00:28:43.974
I get it.

00:28:44.154 --> 00:28:47.458
Like that, that was a definite addiction and also sex for me as well.

00:28:47.518 --> 00:28:57.246
I was using not, I don't think in the traditional term of being a sex addict, I was using it to one of a better term to fill a, like a hole or a void or like a missing part of me.

00:28:57.886 --> 00:29:02.190
Um, and just to feel like I wasn't on my own, like not to feel alone.

00:29:02.250 --> 00:29:05.894
So I think food definitely and sex were those things for me.

00:29:06.193 --> 00:29:09.696
But in that time I was, I was only indulgent in the moments where I was emotional.

00:29:09.737 --> 00:29:11.317
The rest of the time I'd be so strict.

00:29:11.778 --> 00:29:45.791
So there was a time in my life cause I, I, before the bulimia I just didn't eat anything as well so I go through points of like starving myself and then and like the only things that were acceptable for me to eat would be like chicken breasts and grapes like that would be it so I couldn't eat anything else and if I did I'd freak out so you know it was really restrictive as well like and even at the point when I was when I went vegan I was doing um you know I was in the gym a lot at that time I think I was probably 31 at that point and so I was eating like quite a strict like high protein you know very lean diet um and And then having the occasional like binge, but not...

00:29:46.978 --> 00:30:10.778
not making myself sick and so when the vegan thing happened my diet completely shifted and vegan diet is full of carbs because even the protein is wrapped in like little you know starchy carby um balls and so I put on like a stone but I just I think like a lot of um acceptance to me around like my body and life I had a preventive double mastectomy because um of the BRCA gene mutation which is a cancer

00:30:10.798 --> 00:30:12.980
was that recommended or was that something that you okay yeah

00:30:13.201 --> 00:30:48.480
because my mum and sister both died and young um it was recommended as a preventative measure so I had that and a reconstruction and it completely changed the way that I saw my body the way that I viewed myself as a woman the pressure that I'd put on myself like everything completely changed at that point and I just felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders and I felt a lot freer and so that definitely changed like my relationship with my body you know my need to kind of strive for being in control of like how my body looks and And so, yeah.

00:30:48.580 --> 00:30:53.433
So now the last couple of months, like I said, I haven't had sugar and I've really cut down on like processed vegan food.

00:30:53.453 --> 00:30:57.204
I haven't really had much bread or apart from the McDonald's I just stayed in the plant.

00:30:58.347 --> 00:31:23.787
So I've kind of like really, you know, like, pulled things back and again that's been really interesting because i notice the moments where i would have used food i notice that i feel really emotional and what my body wants or what my mind wants to do is go and get something to eat to make me feel better but i'm just not doing that so i'm kind of sitting with you know what's actually there um and that's been a really interesting like process to know that i can do that

00:31:24.327 --> 00:31:36.632
um so i'll share a quick story with you in terms of sobriety um You talked about sort of like a little bit then about like, I guess you're in control when you're sober, aren't you?

00:31:37.153 --> 00:31:43.682
And there's a lot of, you know, women went under the influence of alcohol, obviously vulnerable to...

00:31:45.184 --> 00:31:45.464
Predators.

00:31:45.586 --> 00:31:48.549
Predators, that's a better word there than predators, predators.

00:31:49.692 --> 00:31:58.204
There was a moment on the tube yesterday when we were sat on it and I was sat next to these two women and then when one of them was getting off, the other woman said to her, be careful.

00:31:59.046 --> 00:31:59.165
Mm-hmm.

00:31:59.394 --> 00:32:07.666
And I don't know why, but it was a moment where I just thought, wow, I never leave my friend and say, be careful.

00:32:08.949 --> 00:32:10.291
It's one of the last things I'd think of.

00:32:10.352 --> 00:32:13.256
If I'm leaving him somewhere, the last thing I'd say is be careful.

00:32:14.178 --> 00:32:17.784
And it was just a thought that sat with me and I was kind of stewing on it for a little while.

00:32:17.864 --> 00:32:28.355
How shit it is as a woman getting off a tube that one of the things that they have to be mindful of is being careful.

00:32:28.435 --> 00:32:29.980
And that ain't just London in particular.

00:32:30.141 --> 00:32:30.762
This is everywhere.

00:32:30.803 --> 00:32:34.531
Talk to me a little bit about that in terms of sobriety.

00:32:34.712 --> 00:32:38.703
Is there a responsibility from you to look after your friends who are under the influence?

00:32:39.164 --> 00:32:40.548
Do you have to take on that role?

00:32:40.567 --> 00:32:45.058
I just think it was just something that when I heard it, I thought, That is shit.

00:32:45.298 --> 00:32:45.499
Yeah.

00:32:45.798 --> 00:32:49.942
How awful that we're living in a world where someone has to tell their friend, be careful.

00:32:50.303 --> 00:32:52.605
I think if you're a woman, you know, you know that.

00:32:53.246 --> 00:32:54.207
Message me when you get home.

00:32:54.406 --> 00:32:55.468
Let me know as soon as you're home.

00:32:56.388 --> 00:32:57.670
You know, like be careful.

00:32:57.710 --> 00:32:59.431
I say that to my friends all the time.

00:32:59.790 --> 00:33:01.712
You know, whenever I leave them, message me as soon as you get home.

00:33:01.752 --> 00:33:02.513
Let me know you're home.

00:33:03.114 --> 00:33:09.140
And we, you know, I think that's just accepted in, you know, as part of our experience that we have to think about those things.

00:33:09.380 --> 00:34:00.821
And, you know, even where we're like recording the podcast today, sometimes I'll park near the station if I'm you know going into town in the evening and walk back to my car and it probably passed 11 o'clock I would never do that but my friend and I who I live with we've had a discussion because that's where she's shown me where to park and I said to her about you know when you walk back there don't you ever feel you know scared so I always jangle my keys like walk with my keys and you know we have these kind of discussions about you know what happens if or what happens because it's part of our reality and it's something that even when I remember when I was little you know know and you would kind of hear the stories of young girls who were going missing or showing up murdered or whatever that that's a fear that you kind of live with and as you get older you know when we're talking about um perpetrators or predators, it starts to be your friendship circle.

00:34:00.961 --> 00:34:05.709
It starts to be people you know who have, you know, experienced sexual assault, who have experienced rape.

00:34:06.289 --> 00:34:09.215
And it becomes very much like part of your reality.

00:34:09.255 --> 00:34:14.202
And I think that with me, my friends, we won't go home without each other.

00:34:14.262 --> 00:34:19.110
Like I am that person, whether I'm drunk or not, you know, we're in it to the end.

00:34:19.331 --> 00:34:21.333
And so, you know, I think you...

00:34:21.762 --> 00:34:45.498
as girls I hope or women I hope you have that group of friends who are going to kind of look out for you and you know it's not obviously we know it's not like all men we know that it's you know that it's not everybody but it is some because the kind of percentage rates of people that have experienced you know sexual harassment sexual assault rape are sky high so someone has to be doing it

00:34:45.918 --> 00:34:51.574
you know there was a comment I saw not so long ago and it was not all men but always a man.

00:34:52.255 --> 00:34:54.539
And I was like, geez.

00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:59.445
Do you know, I think maybe I'm just more conscious of this since having a daughter.

00:34:59.585 --> 00:35:00.668
She's almost two years old.

00:35:00.748 --> 00:35:07.998
And maybe, do you know when I talk about catastrophizing and overthinking things, there she is just toddling around the house.

00:35:08.197 --> 00:35:12.824
And I'm thinking, what sort of dangers do I need to protect you from?

00:35:13.365 --> 00:35:21.809
Because there's two things in terms of, I think we've, for my wife mothering it's a there's a there's a nature and it's sort of a togetherness

00:35:21.849 --> 00:35:22.128
yeah

00:35:23.150 --> 00:36:09.992
as a dad i think there's a nurturing but there's also a face face this way as well this is the world this is how dangerous it can be and i think it's just when there was that moment on the tube yesterday i thought i'm gonna have to teach these things to this little girl one day because i that is the reality of the world don't they and i think it's just maybe that's why i'm more conscious of it than not that i was you know disregarding it ever before but as a as a dad now i think you're overthinking these things and these possibilities and what if they experience this and god touch wood and heavens forbid they ever do but what if they experience these sort of things how do you navigate that and just how awful it is i suppose for women In general, you know, and these are two women on the tube that was completely sober.

00:36:10.034 --> 00:36:12.447
It was only about 9.30, I think, last night.

00:36:12.929 --> 00:36:15.532
But that's, it's, that's, that's the reality.

00:36:15.552 --> 00:36:16.072
It's the reality.

00:36:16.112 --> 00:36:25.460
And I do, I think that, you know, being a parent is, I think is teaching your child to be confident, to be empowered, you know, to make sensible decisions.

00:36:25.641 --> 00:36:27.543

Claira Hermet: Social Anxiety, Sober Nights Out, Misogyny Grifting, Eating Disorders, The Orgasm Gap & Her Role as a Social Media Influencer

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