June 19, 2023

Kevin Kennedy: Alcohol Culture, Addiction, Coronation Street, The West End & 25 Years in Recovery

Kevin Kennedy: Alcohol Culture, Addiction, Coronation Street, The West End & 25 Years in Recovery
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Kevin Kennedy: Alcohol Culture, Addiction, Coronation Street, The West End & 25 Years in Recovery
Kevin Kennedy: Alcohol Culture, Addiction, Coronation Street, The West End & 25 Years in Recovery
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Season 1

Matt is joined by Kevin Kennedy, actor and musician, best known for playing the character Curly Watts for 20 years in ITV's long-running television soap opera Coronation Street.

Kevin serves as director of Kennedy Street recovery services, a peer-led, registered charity that offers support and signposting to people who want to recover from addiction as well as professional advice and coaching service to the business sector.

Kevin had a very public battle with his alcohol addiction until he entered active recovery 25 years ago. Now an advocate of recovery, he dedicates much of his time to helping others. Today, Kevin and Matt discuss:

  • Addiction, recovery and how to live a healthy and sober life. 
  • His history of alcoholism and the reprieve of playing a loved character. 
  • Understanding the importance of peer support and asking for help.
  • Musical theatre and hidden gigs in the Manchester music scene.
  • Offering practical advice to others.

Kevin's Twitter

Click here to text our host, Matt, directly!

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This is a toolkit for recovery & resilience. Whether you’re in recovery or seeking to understand addiction, there’s something here for everyone.

📩 Contact: robbie@believeinpeoplepodcast.com
🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” by Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)

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🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
🎛️ Producer: Robbie Lawson
🏢 Network: ReNew

WEBVTT

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This is a new original recording.

00:00:02.559 --> 00:00:04.902
Hello and welcome to the Believe in People podcast.

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I'm Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or as I like to say, your facilitator.

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In this episode we have the privilege of speaking with Kevin Kennedy, renowned actor known for his role as Kelly Waltz on Coronation Street.

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We'll discuss his inspiring story of overcoming addiction, his 25 years of sobriety, his life as a theatre actor and his new recovery centre in Brighton.

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Hi, my name is Kevin Kennedy.

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I'm an alcoholic and an addict.

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Kevin, thank you for coming on the show and congratulations on 25 years sober.

00:00:33.250 --> 00:00:33.572
Thank you.

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How does that feel?

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A quarter of a century of recovery?

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Well, now it feels like

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I've been clean and sober longer than I was drinking and using, which seems...

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Incredible.

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I mean, I remember when I first, I did two rehabs at the beginning of this journey, and I was looking at people who were six months sober, a year sober.

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Two years seemed like, wow.

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And I really, really wanted to reach that year.

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That was the one, you know, that I was counting off the months.

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And now it's just flown by.

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I don't really think about it anymore, to be honest with you.

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Best bit of advice I ever got, by the way.

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Don't worry about the last drink.

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Worry about...

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the next one.

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And that's the way I kind of looked at it, and that stuck with me.

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You know, it's like if you're in the rooms and the piece of advice comes across, it really sticks with you, and that's what stuck with me.

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So once I got past that first year, which I thought was tremendous, then, to a certain extent, the real work began, because...

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The problem with addiction, it's not so much the substance so much, whatever you're using, it's all the stuff around that.

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That's just a symptom.

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They call it a disease, a dis-ease with everything around us.

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So once you've managed to put the drug or the drink down, That's when it becomes difficult, because then you have to deal with everything that you've been anethetizing yourself to in the past.

00:02:16.878 --> 00:02:24.909
And so 25 years later, as literally flown by, lots happened.

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And some of it good, some of it bad, some of it bloody awful.

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But by the grace of the fellowships and the people around me, I've not picked up or used.

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Do you still regularly attend meetings?

00:02:42.150 --> 00:02:42.931
Yeah, I do as much

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as I can.

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As much as I can.

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Because I'm on the road an awful lot.

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I've been to some meetings in some places.

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Some crazy places.

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They're everywhere.

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And I've been lucky enough in my career to travel the world.

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And that is a blessing.

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And I totally appreciate that.

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But I've managed to get to meetings all over the place.

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It's a remarkable outfit and organization where you can go into a meeting anywhere in the world.

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Yes.

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Anywhere in the world.

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And you'll hear the same words.

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You'll hear the same despair, the same hope as well.

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And in this country, there is sufficient meetings everywhere.

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Certainly in Hull, because I looked.

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Have you been to one?

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No,

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because I got here on Monday and I went to find the Alcoholics Anonymous base to get a meetings list, but There was no one there.

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Okay.

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But that's by the by.

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Yeah, yeah.

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No, I've not had a chance to get to one while I've been here because we've had problems with the theatre, well, not the theatre, with the production, so I've been in rehearsals.

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I will get to one next week.

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I go as much as I can.

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How long are you in Hall 4?

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Until Sunday morning.

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Oh, okay.

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And then I've got to head off to the next venue.

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Okay.

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So speaking about how travelled you are, I didn't realise how much you'd actually done.

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So you're a seasoned performer in the theatre.

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I've done an awful lot.

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I've got a list here.

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You were taught as the narrator in the Rocky Horror Show.

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I'm a big fan of Rocky Horror.

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You sang in Chicago.

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Played

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the child catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

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Starred as Pop in We Will Rock You.

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And obviously this role that you're doing now, the interesting thing is you play in the party-loving...

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drug-addicted club owner.

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That's great.

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How is that for someone in recovery to be playing?

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Well, I

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wouldn't recommend it if you're in early recovery.

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I really wouldn't because it can trigger you.

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I mean, I did the commitments a few years ago.

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And we had these wonderfully made wooden pints of Guinness.

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They were wood.

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They were very heavy, so they had that weight to them on stage.

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And that was quite triggering, because I used to love a Guinness, and especially because it was an Irish piece, and I did a lot, and I've got a lot of Irish heritage.

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And, you know, standing in a pub there, you know, with the point, thinking about it, you know, Jesus, they said there it was in front of me.

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So I had to think about that one.

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With Dennis...

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It's a lot different.

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I don't know whether it's to do with the time that's elapsed or with just using bottles, using a lot of coke on stage.

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But I have a lot of fun with that.

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So to a certain extent, I have the fun but without the consequences on stage.

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But having said that, once I've left the stage, I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to use or to drink.

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It's just for that an hour and whatever, two hours on stage, that it's part of the show.

00:06:05.595 --> 00:06:07.776
And it's part of the humour of the thing.

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And it's part of his character that he is off his head all the time.

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And he makes those decisions that we've all done when we are not.

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And they're quite...

00:06:17.250 --> 00:06:20.036
in a masochistic way, I suppose.

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I quite enjoy doing that, but then I can just leave it and walk away and I don't have to deal with it the next day.

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So, no, I find that quite...

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freeing, I think it's quite a good thing to do.

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And it doesn't trigger me.

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This is just me personally.

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I can't talk for other people, but I quite enjoy it.

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And then I enjoy it even more, the fact that once I go through the stage door, then I'm just back to,

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I didn't care.

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What's it like, because obviously being part of a small team, I mean, I've done a brief work in performing myself, and it's kind of the go-to thing is after the show, let's go have a drink, celebrations, what was that like for you being a performer being an actor early

00:07:04.312 --> 00:07:26.028
doors when uh 25 years ago it was a no-no yeah i never never went to the pub unless i was eating or unless i was away from home and city were on the telly football and that's the only place I could access the football because there's recovery and then there's football.

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I mean, come on.

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But even so, seriously, even if City were on, I'd try to find somewhere I could watch it with that didn't alcohol yeah

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you've had quite obviously um 25 years it's quite a remarkable recovery journey uh for those that I mean I've I was reading some stuff um earlier today and last night about yourself and your own journey but for someone who doesn't know your story can you take us back and I'm not expecting 25 years somewhere else but can you talk a little bit about like how it how it maybe started for you and

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I think what's important about my story is it's Pretty much they're going to be the same as everyone else's.

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And that's the nature of the disease.

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It doesn't matter who you are, what you do, how much money you've got, what car you drive, how much stuff you've got.

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It doesn't matter.

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I was, I think I was about 38.

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I'd always been a heavy drinker, always been a sociable drinker.

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I loved it, come from a big Irish family.

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Drink was always part and parcel and it was done successfully.

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There was, as far as I know, there was no addiction problems within my family.

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I enjoyed a drink.

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I loved it.

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where I, through my drama school years, don't forget this was in the late 70s, early 80s, when drinking was pretty prevalent wherever you went, as was drug taking.

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I just went on the bandwagon, really.

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I quite liked it.

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And being an actor of that time, of that ilk, I quite enjoyed the idea of the romantic idea of being an actor of drinking and fighting and ruining women as you went along one step ahead of the law you know from town to town to town breaking hearts and I quite enjoyed that romantic idea of the thing that's what attracted me I quite like the fact that and I was in the West End before I was in Corrie or anywhere else and there was a massive drinking culture in the West End and we had at drinking clubs.

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It was a place like McCready's and other places within the West End, which the actors went to after the show.

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It was the only place that would stay open late.

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And I loved all that because you're getting, you know, as a young actor, you go in there and you see all these other actors, famous actors that were in the West End all enjoying a pint and none of them had a problem, I hasten to add.

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But to me, you know, that's what drew the romantic side of my profession was that, yeah, they can have, can hold their drink they can go on and do the perfect Hamlet they can have a sword fight and they're handsome and debonair I loved all that and I bought into that and I bought into that and this is important that I bought into that idea because later on I will explain why that's important so I continued drinking until I got to about 38 and I'd like to put to bed it wasn't It wasn't pressure of being an actor or pressure of being famous or any of that.

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A lot of people say, yeah, I drank because I couldn't cope with it.

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There was that, of course, but I cannot put the blame on that of my addiction onto being famous.

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I drank because I liked it.

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I used because I liked it I just enjoyed the whole thing and to the point where I couldn't do without it sure enough there were pressures of course there were and maybe a small percentage of that was me coping with the pressures of fame and things like that but what happened to me would have happened anyway No matter what I was doing, whether I'd been a postman, if I worked in a shop or an electrician or a car mechanic, whatever happened to me was going to happen.

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The only effect that fame and money and stardom and the rest of it had on me was it speeded up the process because I had the means.

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That's what I was going to say.

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You've got the means

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to do it.

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I had the means to do it.

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I was a lucky boy.

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I was 38, whatever, 25 million people watching New Week.

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I was getting good money.

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I could afford to drink all that I wanted, to use all I wanted, which just speeded up.

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the process, which I'm thankful for because that process was speeded up.

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My recovery

00:12:34.051 --> 00:12:34.630
came quicker.

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I was going to say, yeah, that would make your recovery come quicker as well.

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The

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recovery came quicker.

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So by 40 hours, I was starting my recovery journey.

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If I'd have been in another job, if I'd have made it to a later age, which is doubtful, then I would have started my recovery a lot later on.

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I mean, going to what you were saying then, what you were saying then, the amount of people I was watching, I think you're right, was it 25 million people tuned in to watch your wedding with Raquel, with Sarah Lancashire.

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You was, you was a household name.

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And to be honest, funny enough, I was thinking about this earlier, I remember in my house in the 90s, we had a Coronation Street mug that had you and Raquel on it.

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Do you know what I mean?

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So it was just, it's not like that anymore.

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And it never will be like that.

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But going with what you're saying there and going on to the character that you played of, Kelly Watts, I've got a quote here where you said, I hid my drinking on set.

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If I wasn't too shaky, I'd be fine.

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And I managed a few scenes before lunchtime.

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Playing Kelly was the perfect job for an addict because when I was performing, I was someone else.

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And he was a lovely guy who everyone loved.

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To be honest, being Kelly, it was a bit of a reprieve from being me.

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Yeah.

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Tell me about that then.

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Well, every addict thinks of themselves as morally corrupt.

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They don't think of themselves as someone who's ill.

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They think there's something wrong with them.

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I am not a nice man or woman.

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Nobody knows what I'm really like.

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I put this persona out of being a nice person, of being a caring person.

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It's basically self-loathing.

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And I very much suffered from that like everybody else.

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I portrayed this lovely guy on the telly.

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I portrayed a lovely guy in real life.

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And I probably came across like that, to be fair.

00:14:44.984 --> 00:14:45.985
But that's not the point.

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I didn't like me.

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I was the self-loathing.

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I was full of self-loathing because I knew deep down my drinking, especially my drinking, was not normal.

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When I discovered the morning drink, I thought I'd discovered the secret of life.

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I'll never forget that morning.

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I was shaking badly, sweating.

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I had to go to work and I found a friend of mine had been abroad to the Caribbean and gave me this doll.

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It was a Caribbean lady and he unscrewed her head and there was rum in it and I put it in my tea and drank it and suddenly I felt brand new.

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I thought I'd found the secret of existing.

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Which is your way, that kind of thinking is...

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is warped, you know, it's crazy.

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And I was insane, full of self-loathing, insane.

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And when I knew that moment of awareness that I knew that really this was going to kill me, This is the madness of this disease.

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I was thinking, well, you know, maybe I could drink for the next, what, four or five years and then die.

00:16:10.541 --> 00:16:14.304
At least I'll get five more years in.

00:16:15.606 --> 00:16:18.389
I mean, that's just, that's insanity.

00:16:18.409 --> 00:16:33.543
Thinking, you know, well, it becomes a viable proposition that you could die of this disease rather than then grasp the nettle and say, right, I've got to do something about it.

00:16:34.244 --> 00:16:42.479
And that was coming, I was to-ing and fro-ing for one or two years when I knew I was close to the end, one way or the other.

00:16:42.499 --> 00:16:50.352
That jumping off point, as it's referred to many times, is that you can't live without it.

00:16:50.494 --> 00:16:52.636
What am I going to do?

00:16:52.878 --> 00:16:52.957
Yeah.

00:16:53.153 --> 00:17:06.214
So that, you know, to go back to your original question, I eventually got to that point around about the age of 38 and that was a battle, you know.

00:17:06.234 --> 00:17:09.601
I was grieving because I knew I had to give up and I loved it.

00:17:10.020 --> 00:17:10.241
Yeah.

00:17:10.690 --> 00:17:22.469
That was the part that I read, I think it was from your book, where you said you was feeling like this is the end, but then part of you, after being in the priory, realised, actually, no, this is the beginning.

00:17:22.628 --> 00:17:34.647
This goes back to when I say I embraced the idea of being the romantic side of acting, drinking, fighting, breaking hearts, one step ahead of the law firm.

00:17:34.929 --> 00:17:36.049
Yeah, I embraced that.

00:17:36.371 --> 00:17:37.532
When it came to recovery...

00:17:38.817 --> 00:17:43.586
not straight away, I hasten to add, I embraced recovery.

00:17:44.608 --> 00:17:53.064
Because suddenly I realised that all this that was on offer, I was told, you can do anything.

00:17:54.727 --> 00:17:57.932
If you give up your job, The drinking and the drugging.

00:17:58.051 --> 00:18:03.460
And I have to say as well, my drugging was a byproduct of my alcoholism.

00:18:03.500 --> 00:18:05.061
My alcoholism was my big problem.

00:18:05.422 --> 00:18:09.127
Well, that was it, because when they first tested your blood, they found cocaine in your system.

00:18:09.167 --> 00:18:10.849
You wasn't even aware that you'd taken the cocaine.

00:18:10.930 --> 00:18:12.031
I can't even remember I'd done it.

00:18:12.152 --> 00:18:13.614
Yeah, during the blackout, I suppose.

00:18:13.693 --> 00:18:14.515
Yeah.

00:18:15.336 --> 00:18:21.704
I love drinking so much that there's a drug you can take, that if you take it, you can drink more.

00:18:22.326 --> 00:18:22.405
Yeah.

00:18:22.425 --> 00:18:23.426
And that drug was speed.

00:18:24.628 --> 00:18:24.749
And...

00:18:25.442 --> 00:18:26.502
I thought, oh, wow.

00:18:27.704 --> 00:18:29.425
Before, I wasn't that bothered.

00:18:29.465 --> 00:18:30.907
I used to drink it until I fell over.

00:18:30.948 --> 00:18:36.114
But if there was a drug available, which means you could drink more, I thought that was amazing.

00:18:36.554 --> 00:18:40.419
So my drug use was secondary.

00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:44.804
It was another symptom of my alcoholism.

00:18:45.624 --> 00:18:53.252
And when it came, actually, in my own defense, and to my credit, I think, after 25 years, I can claim credit.

00:18:53.292 --> 00:18:53.993
Yeah.

00:18:54.657 --> 00:19:01.546
When they said, well, you have to give up coke and speed or whatever, and marijuana was never a problem anyway, I went, okay.

00:19:02.666 --> 00:19:03.728
Yeah, that was the easy part for you.

00:19:03.748 --> 00:19:04.868
That was the easy part for me.

00:19:04.990 --> 00:19:05.690
Yeah.

00:19:06.171 --> 00:19:10.776
Because that didn't hold any attraction without booze.

00:19:11.656 --> 00:19:22.829
Marijuana was never, even when I was drinking used marijuana, I never liked because it just made me want to sit and stare at the telly and eat everything in the fridge.

00:19:23.150 --> 00:19:23.230
Yeah.

00:19:23.650 --> 00:19:24.351
you know

00:19:25.112 --> 00:19:51.780
so did you understand like when you was going through this did you understand the physical dependency to it because obviously you said like you'd wake up in the morning you had that room you put in your tea and you fell better and it's like i've discovered a magical exit so did you because i think when we talk about stigma one of the things that sometimes you hear people say with someone who's got an alcohol dependence is oh well why don't you just stop then so did you understand the physical dependence that your body was going through with this like oh if i have some i'll feel better or What was that then?

00:19:51.901 --> 00:19:52.241
I just,

00:19:53.444 --> 00:20:01.184
I knew that I was physically, deep down I knew I was physically dependent on alcohol, that I had to have a drink.

00:20:01.602 --> 00:20:06.448
Because everything I did was based around alcohol.

00:20:07.328 --> 00:20:14.357
And when I started drinking in the morning, I thought, even though you're thinking to yourself, I just need this to get through and then I'll sort myself out.

00:20:14.778 --> 00:20:15.538
It's just denial.

00:20:15.618 --> 00:20:16.539
It's always been denial.

00:20:17.381 --> 00:20:19.544
I knew I was addicted.

00:20:21.727 --> 00:20:26.607
But obviously admitting that and doing something about it, He's totally different from knowing it.

00:20:27.709 --> 00:20:30.731
And I had various attempts to stop.

00:20:30.791 --> 00:20:35.576
There was one famous episode where I'd been away.

00:20:35.656 --> 00:20:40.981
I'd been in the Caribbean on holiday, and I'd really battered it.

00:20:41.342 --> 00:20:42.262
And I come back.

00:20:42.282 --> 00:20:43.243
I thought, right, that's it.

00:20:43.384 --> 00:20:44.365
I'm going to stop now.

00:20:44.384 --> 00:20:46.607
So I stopped two, three days in.

00:20:46.647 --> 00:20:50.431
I'm crossing the street in Manchester where I lived, and I had a fit.

00:20:51.752 --> 00:20:52.874
I had an alcoholic fit.

00:20:53.826 --> 00:20:57.049
because my body was going, where's your booze?

00:20:58.632 --> 00:21:03.298
Caught by a newspaper, photographed in an ambulance, the rest of it, front page news.

00:21:04.159 --> 00:21:09.766
And I explained to the medical people, I said, well, I've been drinking a lot, so I decided to stop.

00:21:09.806 --> 00:21:10.906
And they said, well, you can't do that.

00:21:11.468 --> 00:21:14.852
You have to do it gradually and with drugs.

00:21:15.133 --> 00:21:19.397
Now, I didn't hear the you have to do it gradually and with drugs bit.

00:21:20.398 --> 00:21:22.481
I just heard you can't do that.

00:21:23.137 --> 00:21:24.579
That's the only bit I heard.

00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:26.182
So I thought, wow, that's it.

00:21:26.202 --> 00:21:27.505
So I can't stop drinking now.

00:21:27.865 --> 00:21:28.425
Why does that happen?

00:21:28.445 --> 00:21:30.809
It's almost like someone's given you a pass to go and have a drink.

00:21:31.170 --> 00:21:31.490
Absolutely, yeah.

00:21:32.633 --> 00:21:34.154
And when they said, actually, you're okay.

00:21:34.174 --> 00:21:36.057
You've done no damage to your liver.

00:21:36.778 --> 00:21:37.559
Even more of a pass.

00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:43.068
Yeah, but if you carry, the thing is, there's no damage to your liver, but if you carry on, there will be.

00:21:43.269 --> 00:21:44.570
But I didn't hear that bit.

00:21:45.071 --> 00:21:47.095
I hear, there's no damage to your liver.

00:21:47.516 --> 00:21:48.457
You can't stop.

00:21:48.497 --> 00:21:49.980
That's the

00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:51.321
bit I chose to hear.

00:21:51.617 --> 00:21:52.259
Do you know what?

00:21:52.338 --> 00:21:54.163
I'm just going to touch on this as well.

00:21:54.222 --> 00:21:55.444
So I've got another quote here.

00:21:55.484 --> 00:21:58.711
You've said here, I was beaten.

00:21:58.991 --> 00:22:01.155
The nurse helped me into bed and I was in a dreadful state.

00:22:01.817 --> 00:22:03.579
I knew I'd reached the end one way or another.

00:22:03.619 --> 00:22:05.242
I just didn't know what the end was.

00:22:05.282 --> 00:22:09.270
The biggest emotion I felt right then was shame, massive, horrible shame.

00:22:09.811 --> 00:22:15.041
The four hideous horsemen, shame, remorse, self-disgust and worst of them all, fear.

00:22:15.586 --> 00:22:16.686
had found me again.

00:22:17.268 --> 00:22:20.372
I knew deep down my drinking was not normal, but it is a disease of denial.

00:22:20.873 --> 00:22:27.980
Some people will watch this, so my question to you is some people will watch this and see your success, and you've told us about your success, obviously being a household name.

00:22:28.961 --> 00:22:32.226
What was the absolute rock bottom moment for you?

00:22:33.188 --> 00:22:35.230
It was a moment of clarity.

00:22:37.051 --> 00:22:38.413
A real moment of clarity.

00:22:41.278 --> 00:22:47.667
I was being driven into Granada Television, And I didn't have a drink.

00:22:49.189 --> 00:22:56.415
And I said to the lady that was driving me, you have to stop this car so I can go and get a drink.

00:22:57.656 --> 00:22:58.778
And she said, I'm not going.

00:22:58.798 --> 00:23:00.861
I said, if you don't, I'm going to open the door and jump.

00:23:01.681 --> 00:23:02.182
So she did.

00:23:02.201 --> 00:23:07.547
I went in the shop, got the bottle, came out, take a massive swig of it.

00:23:08.307 --> 00:23:10.849
And then it's just something just switched.

00:23:12.251 --> 00:23:14.294
And I went, I can't do this anymore.

00:23:15.074 --> 00:23:20.780
physically, mentally, spiritually bankrupt.

00:23:23.023 --> 00:23:23.625
That moment.

00:23:23.724 --> 00:23:27.971
And I knew in that moment that if I actually didn't do something, I would die.

00:23:28.050 --> 00:23:33.198
And for the first time, dying wasn't an option.

00:23:33.218 --> 00:23:34.318
I thought, I don't want to die.

00:23:34.378 --> 00:23:35.921
That's ridiculous.

00:23:36.883 --> 00:23:38.765
Which has never, never happened before.

00:23:39.766 --> 00:23:42.589
You know, dying was like, well, you know...

00:23:43.041 --> 00:23:46.469
five years, but I thought, no, I just don't want to do this anymore.

00:23:47.912 --> 00:23:48.813
And that was the moment.

00:23:50.616 --> 00:23:56.428
And as soon as I'd made that decision, that's when everything got easier and harder.

00:23:59.673 --> 00:24:01.999
I just let it happen because I knew what was going to happen.

00:24:02.019 --> 00:24:05.025
They were going to whisk me off and put me into...

00:24:06.273 --> 00:24:07.376
into the priory.

00:24:07.416 --> 00:24:12.848
And a lot of people talk about the priory like it's some sort of holiday camp hotel.

00:24:12.910 --> 00:24:14.353
Yeah, the facilities are great.

00:24:15.415 --> 00:24:20.949
But if you go in the priory and think it's all easy, then you're not doing it right.

00:24:21.931 --> 00:24:24.798
Because that's not what it's about.

00:24:25.569 --> 00:24:30.440
It's just that you have a comfier bed and you have better facilities.

00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:36.332
But the journey is as hard as it would be if you didn't have a comfy bed or facilities.

00:24:36.511 --> 00:24:39.417
It's a real wake-up time.

00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:43.487
And even part of me was fighting it then.

00:24:43.507 --> 00:25:06.220
I remember my bosses at ITV who have to take credit because they they eventually put me in in they took the American route of things where you know we rehabilitate our people we don't just sack them before that I think it was very much right okay he's out of control you can't do the show sack him

00:25:07.080 --> 00:25:10.506
yeah yeah that was the part that I found quite interesting because at a

00:25:10.605 --> 00:25:10.685
time

00:25:11.298 --> 00:25:13.099
you'd think that would have been the approach.

00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:15.742
Yeah, but they changed, and credit to them.

00:25:16.423 --> 00:25:24.612
And now that is the, thank the Lord, in most big companies, there's a rehabilitation program.

00:25:25.933 --> 00:25:32.320
And that's one of the things that we followed the Americans in, which is pretty decent.

00:25:32.961 --> 00:25:34.242
It's good, actually.

00:25:34.803 --> 00:25:41.029
So rather than just get rid of me, they sent me to rehabilitation.

00:25:41.314 --> 00:25:42.976
So

00:25:43.415 --> 00:25:48.541
considering you've given yourself five years, hearing a doctor tell you stop drinking or die, what was that like?

00:25:48.561 --> 00:25:51.003
Was that a morbid moment or was you kind of like, eh?

00:25:51.825 --> 00:25:52.405
Well, yeah.

00:25:52.425 --> 00:26:00.253
I mean, as I say, you know, it was a viable proposition until I decided, as I've described, to do something about it.

00:26:02.036 --> 00:26:03.538
I think then it became a bit morbid.

00:26:03.978 --> 00:26:07.721
I think then I suddenly realised just how close I could have got.

00:26:07.741 --> 00:26:09.364
I mean, I didn't weigh much at the time.

00:26:09.483 --> 00:26:09.964
I'd given up

00:26:10.065 --> 00:26:11.165
eating.

00:26:11.298 --> 00:26:12.159
It just got in the way.

00:26:12.179 --> 00:26:17.326
And I thought, well, I've got to do something about it.

00:26:17.346 --> 00:26:35.329
And the shame part of it and the guilt, and most alcoholics, I think it's fair to say, in my opinion, will forgive anyone else for stuff that's happened to them.

00:26:35.349 --> 00:26:36.550
They're that kind of people.

00:26:36.611 --> 00:26:38.653
They just forgive, you know.

00:26:38.849 --> 00:26:44.016
But the person that they can't forgive or come to terms with is what they've done to themselves.

00:26:44.056 --> 00:26:48.121
They're more upset, I think, to what they've done to others.

00:26:50.084 --> 00:27:01.478
And I was obviously one of, for me, it was that I thought I was just, I was guilt ridden of what I'd put my wife through and my parents and my family, my work colleagues.

00:27:02.082 --> 00:27:04.227
And I've still got that.

00:27:04.287 --> 00:27:06.531
I still have to deal with that occasionally.

00:27:06.852 --> 00:27:17.736
I mean, I'll be driving along in the car and a piece of music will come on or something will come on on the telly, like a film that was on or was prevalent when I was using or drinking.

00:27:18.076 --> 00:27:21.463
And then immediately I'm back in that state of shame.

00:27:22.594 --> 00:27:33.290
I have to say, 25 years later, this is for me, some people deal with it a lot better, but for me, massive amounts of shame still around that.

00:27:34.993 --> 00:27:42.385
I have to say, 25 years down the line, this still happens, but it doesn't last as long.

00:27:43.326 --> 00:27:49.817
And the periods in between those attacks of shame and guilt get longer and longer.

00:27:50.178 --> 00:27:50.980
but it's still there.

00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:52.281
Of course it's still there.

00:27:53.724 --> 00:28:01.880
And to a certain extent, I'm glad it is because 25 years later, you can start to forget what it was like.

00:28:01.901 --> 00:28:04.586
It's like breaking your leg.

00:28:04.930 --> 00:28:10.596
if you're playing football and you break your leg, you would think you'd never play football again because you might break your leg.

00:28:11.116 --> 00:28:11.678
But you don't.

00:28:12.258 --> 00:28:19.086
Childbirth, not that I've experienced it, but I've been told that at the time it's extremely painful.

00:28:19.105 --> 00:28:22.869
You think never again, but women go on to have, because the body forgets.

00:28:23.130 --> 00:28:25.772
And that is our defense mechanism.

00:28:26.173 --> 00:28:28.236
That is absolutely normal and natural.

00:28:30.097 --> 00:28:31.700
And with addiction, it's the same thing.

00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:32.780
We can forget.

00:28:33.890 --> 00:28:34.951
the shame and the guilt.

00:28:35.751 --> 00:28:42.240
So I'm quite thankful that occasionally I get these attacks of guilt.

00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:44.683
And you know, that is normal.

00:28:46.486 --> 00:28:52.994
Because I'm doing something my body doesn't like, which is not drinking.

00:28:54.576 --> 00:28:58.221
I'm doing something my body doesn't like, which is drinking to excess.

00:28:58.561 --> 00:29:06.112
And there's going to be not a physical, I don't think, not anymore, but certainly a mental

00:29:06.132 --> 00:29:07.212
side to it.

00:29:07.232 --> 00:29:09.336
Well, that's the part that I always...

00:29:09.375 --> 00:29:12.820
I was having this conversation with one of my peer support volunteers yesterday.

00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:19.088
I mean, I follow a lot of social media influencers around addiction and recovery.

00:29:19.148 --> 00:29:23.054
And one guy had said that he doesn't consider himself to be in recovery anymore.

00:29:23.114 --> 00:29:24.675
He considers himself to be recovered.

00:29:24.776 --> 00:29:25.718
And that's because he'd been...

00:29:26.690 --> 00:29:29.114
much like yourself, roughly around 25 years sober.

00:29:29.815 --> 00:29:32.959
What's your take on the whole recovery and recovered?

00:29:33.339 --> 00:29:36.904
Well, for me, this is for me personally, I'm not recovered.

00:29:37.145 --> 00:29:37.286
No.

00:29:38.428 --> 00:29:38.867
No way.

00:29:39.710 --> 00:29:45.077
I still have that side of me which goes to excess.

00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:47.842
I think it's part of my makeup.

00:29:48.061 --> 00:29:48.844
And I like it.

00:29:49.003 --> 00:29:50.726
I recognize it.

00:29:50.826 --> 00:29:51.548
I embrace it.

00:29:52.368 --> 00:29:53.089
I use it.

00:29:53.691 --> 00:29:55.594
I use it in my professional life.

00:29:56.001 --> 00:30:00.730
If I'm portraying something, it's, for example, Dennis.

00:30:01.131 --> 00:30:02.633
Dennis is the king of excess.

00:30:04.777 --> 00:30:08.963
And because I have an insight in that, I use it in what I do on the stage.

00:30:09.003 --> 00:30:10.967
So you're channeling it into something positive.

00:30:12.068 --> 00:30:12.869
And we're obsessed.

00:30:12.910 --> 00:30:13.631
We're obsessive.

00:30:15.413 --> 00:30:22.145
And that is a very powerful, useful tool used in the right way.

00:30:23.266 --> 00:30:53.961
Because if you're, say you're in early addiction and you pick up a guitar or you pick up a piano or writing or painting or sculpture or poetry or whatever, which is an outlet, and you have the same obsessive behavior around that, that you had with your drinking or using, it could become very powerful indeed.

00:30:54.343 --> 00:30:58.007
But it's a question of just flicking that switch.

00:30:58.267 --> 00:31:04.034
And that's the interesting thing, because going on what you were saying, then obviously there isn't, your body will now not have a physical dependency to alcohol.

00:31:04.413 --> 00:31:13.744
However, if you was to have one drink now, it's not that your body will need more alcohol, it's that obsessive and mental side of it then, isn't it?

00:31:13.785 --> 00:31:14.184
Yeah, if I

00:31:14.204 --> 00:31:18.250
take a drink now, physically I would...

00:31:18.625 --> 00:31:19.989
probably get away with it.

00:31:20.410 --> 00:31:25.182
But mentally, the damage that that would do would kill me.

00:31:26.464 --> 00:31:31.396
Because the obsession, because if I'm not drinking it, I'm thinking about it.

00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:35.788
If I'm not thinking about it, I'm drinking it or planning it.

00:31:36.738 --> 00:31:39.442
And it scares me just to think of that because it's powerful.

00:31:39.482 --> 00:31:49.319
The brain's a very powerful tool and can push you into all sorts of situations that I just don't want to go down again.

00:31:50.863 --> 00:31:53.207
I mean, I know I've got another drink and drug in me.

00:31:53.626 --> 00:31:57.755
Whether I've got another recovery in me is doubtful.

00:31:58.435 --> 00:31:59.617
It's very doubtful.

00:31:59.809 --> 00:32:03.554
And the thought of it makes me go cold.

00:32:03.634 --> 00:32:05.976
I just can't go down that route again.

00:32:06.056 --> 00:32:06.415
I get that,

00:32:07.176 --> 00:32:07.257
yeah.

00:32:07.277 --> 00:32:12.602
Going back to the Priory, you said then that, yes, the Priory has nicer beds and nicer facilities.

00:32:13.222 --> 00:32:24.614
One thing I always found interesting about detox and going to rehab is when you're in the detox, when you're in the rehab, it's one of the safest places you can be in that sense.

00:32:25.334 --> 00:32:28.076
What's it like coming out of there after detox?

00:32:28.616 --> 00:32:28.958
Because...

00:32:29.922 --> 00:32:31.144
The vulnerabilities are there now.

00:32:31.523 --> 00:32:35.529
When you go into the shop to do the big shot, there's the alcohol aisle.

00:32:35.549 --> 00:32:37.053
The temptations are there out there.

00:32:37.073 --> 00:32:37.834
You don't have that.

00:32:38.335 --> 00:32:43.342
And they, obviously, they can prepare you for it, but they can't stop you going into these environments, like you say about the pub.

00:32:43.722 --> 00:32:46.006
So what was that like when you first came out?

00:32:46.287 --> 00:32:46.606
Well, when I

00:32:46.646 --> 00:32:48.569
first came out, I did my four weeks.

00:32:48.829 --> 00:32:50.413
Yeah.

00:32:52.576 --> 00:32:53.938
And I was shaky at the end of it.

00:32:54.018 --> 00:32:56.020
I mean, I battered the meetings.

00:32:58.003 --> 00:32:59.165
I had a routine problem.

00:32:59.554 --> 00:33:33.647
i didn't go to work for six months and i used to do a meeting on the sunday monday wednesday unless city were at home on the midweek match so i'd go to the match but but i'd do one either on the tuesday on the thursday because i missed the wednesday friday sunday again and i did that for six months solid surrounding myself with people who understood, basically.

00:33:34.569 --> 00:33:36.512
Because most people don't understand, and why should they?

00:33:37.555 --> 00:33:38.336
They don't understand.

00:33:38.375 --> 00:33:39.979
Well, that's what we're saying, isn't it?

00:33:39.999 --> 00:33:41.520
The idea of, well, why don't you just stop?

00:33:41.662 --> 00:33:46.650
No, well, the idea of someone saying, just stop, is ludicrous.

00:33:46.730 --> 00:33:47.510
Exactly, yeah.

00:33:47.691 --> 00:33:49.994
It's a mental disease.

00:33:51.017 --> 00:33:52.960
It's not a moral failing.

00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:53.381
No.

00:33:55.604 --> 00:33:56.506
You have to have it.

00:33:57.665 --> 00:34:02.310
And when I see people on the streets, I know what they're going through.

00:34:02.330 --> 00:34:06.654
I try and give them money if I can.

00:34:07.194 --> 00:34:08.255
And people go, what are you doing that for?

00:34:08.275 --> 00:34:09.217
They're only going to drink.

00:34:09.237 --> 00:34:11.739
I go, have you ever really wanted a drink?

00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:13.762
I mean, really wanted a drink.

00:34:13.822 --> 00:34:15.784
Not, oh, I fancy a pint.

00:34:16.063 --> 00:34:21.568
I mean, your whole existence is geared to that next drink.

00:34:21.610 --> 00:34:25.072
That is...

00:34:27.170 --> 00:34:42.911
probably the worst ever you'd do anything to get that next drink because I mean I remember just the click of the of the bottle of the vodka top when I get the vodka

00:34:42.931 --> 00:34:46.876
bottle it's funny that I can hear that sound as you've said it I know exactly what

00:34:46.996 --> 00:34:54.146
it is as soon as I heard that I started to feel better I've not even drank it because

00:34:54.186 --> 00:34:55.849
you know you're going to get the drink isn't

00:34:55.909 --> 00:34:59.807
it And I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

00:35:00.670 --> 00:35:01.831
I know what that's like.

00:35:02.934 --> 00:35:17.501
And I know the depravity and the feeling of self-disgust that you are tied to this next drink or drug your whole life.

00:35:18.050 --> 00:35:23.277
being is dependent on what happens in the next five minutes if someone gives you enough money.

00:35:23.538 --> 00:35:32.690
Similar sort of thing, we run a needle exchange and I had a student say to me before, doesn't that just encourage them to use drugs if you offer a needle exchange?

00:35:32.751 --> 00:35:36.695
And what you were just saying then, I was like, no, they're going to use drugs regardless.

00:35:37.436 --> 00:35:43.485
The safest thing we can do is provide them with a clean pin as opposed to a blunt needle or a shared needle.

00:35:43.969 --> 00:35:46.132
But it's that mentality, as you were saying.

00:35:46.572 --> 00:35:51.260
And funny enough, along that same line, you see the anxiousness.

00:35:51.420 --> 00:35:57.367
And then once you give them the bag with the needle in, or once they've got the prescription for the methadone, how calm they come.

00:35:57.387 --> 00:35:59.309
And it's not because they're rattling.

00:35:59.670 --> 00:36:03.054
It's because they know if they don't get it, they're going to be rattling.

00:36:03.695 --> 00:36:06.420
And that's kind of the addiction mentality.

00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:09.764
And that goes across alcohol addiction, but to obviously drug addiction as well.

00:36:09.784 --> 00:36:09.925
It's

00:36:09.985 --> 00:36:10.706
hard work.

00:36:10.806 --> 00:36:49.175
I mean, I remember thinking I've got to make sure that I've got enough booze in me to keep everything still and to be be able to do my job and I knew that if I'd gone too far with that I'm going to become visibly drunk but if I go too less then I'm going to have the rattles and the shakes and the fear so that's a terrifying balancing act And that was one thing that really scared, always scared me.

00:36:49.217 --> 00:36:49.938
Have I got enough?

00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:51.641
Have I got too much?

00:36:53.686 --> 00:36:57.653
So what was the detox process like for you then if you had that sort of mentality?

00:36:57.693 --> 00:36:59.318
What was it like for you personally?

00:36:59.585 --> 00:37:00.166
Well,

00:37:01.168 --> 00:37:04.110
when I was actively drinking, I never had that detox.

00:37:05.132 --> 00:37:08.054
I was a maintenance drinker.

00:37:08.396 --> 00:37:10.257
I was always keeping it to a certain level.

00:37:10.878 --> 00:37:15.764
I tried to come down, but once you drop to a certain level, you get into physical trouble.

00:37:16.623 --> 00:37:22.710
So you have to top it back up again, which only adds to the shame and the guilt thing again, because you think, why am I doing this?

00:37:23.010 --> 00:37:28.878
And you know why, because your body's screaming for it to get yourself on an even keel.

00:37:29.601 --> 00:37:39.445
And it's a devil's balancing act, which I'm so thankful and grateful I don't have to do that anymore.

00:37:40.809 --> 00:37:45.860
Because it's a terrible way to live.

00:37:46.786 --> 00:37:49.068
Constantly thinking, I might have had enough.

00:37:49.268 --> 00:37:49.989
I've not had enough.

00:37:50.291 --> 00:37:51.112
I've had too much.

00:37:51.791 --> 00:37:53.375
If I've had too much, shall I have some copies?

00:37:53.454 --> 00:37:53.795
It's just...

00:37:54.496 --> 00:37:56.057
How did they do that for you in the priory then?

00:37:56.177 --> 00:37:59.902
Because obviously, from what I read, again, going back to it, you went in there in tears.

00:38:00.744 --> 00:38:01.505
Well, yeah.

00:38:01.545 --> 00:38:03.447
What was the detox process like within the priory?

00:38:03.487 --> 00:38:03.907
Well, once I

00:38:03.927 --> 00:38:13.621
got into the priory, of course, the first thing they do is pump you full of drugs to make the calm down and the detox safe.

00:38:14.061 --> 00:38:14.621
Yeah.

00:38:15.202 --> 00:38:18.465
Which is absolutely necessary, isn't it?

00:38:18.485 --> 00:38:27.297
So, although my body was relaxed and almost sleepy, my brain, my head was just racing with the guilt.

00:38:27.657 --> 00:38:34.567
Because you just think the whole world knows now, you know, how am I going to deal with this?

00:38:34.606 --> 00:38:40.775
Even though inside of me I knew that I'd done the right thing and I was...

00:38:42.945 --> 00:38:44.989
I've got to try and get better.

00:38:46.271 --> 00:38:56.364
But a small scan, a scant help when you're wrapped up in the guilt and the shame of this disease, because it's very powerful.

00:38:56.985 --> 00:39:10.905
And, you know, thoughts, they didn't for me, fortunately, but I understand when people take their lives, which is absolutely tragic because of the guilt.

00:39:11.905 --> 00:39:16.494
And a lot of this happens in early recovery because they're desperate.

00:39:16.735 --> 00:39:16.936
Yeah.

00:39:18.197 --> 00:39:19.561
And there's nothing more sad.

00:39:20.322 --> 00:39:21.945
Yeah.

00:39:22.666 --> 00:39:30.722
To give it context, I manage a lot of the people that have gone through recovery and then want to peer support other people in recovery.

00:39:30.762 --> 00:39:31.903
And somebody said to me once...

00:39:33.025 --> 00:39:34.447
I said, how's it going for you?

00:39:34.467 --> 00:39:35.449
He said, I feel naked.

00:39:35.608 --> 00:39:37.471
He said, I feel like everybody's looking at me.

00:39:37.891 --> 00:39:42.516
He said, weirdly enough, more people would have been looking at me when I was under the influence down the street causing my illness.

00:39:42.536 --> 00:39:42.978
He said, no.

00:39:43.038 --> 00:39:45.039
He said, I'm walking around normal.

00:39:45.900 --> 00:39:48.664
And he said, but I just feel naked and I feel really vulnerable.

00:39:48.804 --> 00:39:49.204
Absolutely.

00:39:49.346 --> 00:39:50.166
Can you relate to that?

00:39:50.266 --> 00:39:50.947
Absolutely.

00:39:50.967 --> 00:40:00.559
To go back to your original question, what it was like when I came out, yeah, I battered the meetings and I did what I was told, but I still carried the guilt.

00:40:01.340 --> 00:40:02.762
I still felt as though...

00:40:04.130 --> 00:40:05.351
as though everyone was looking at me.

00:40:07.135 --> 00:40:08.297
Which

00:40:08.317 --> 00:40:08.818
they might have.

00:40:08.878 --> 00:40:10.320
I suppose we've celebrated status.

00:40:10.340 --> 00:40:11.262
It's for different reasons.

00:40:11.302 --> 00:40:15.148
This is how mad I was when I first went to meetings.

00:40:16.130 --> 00:40:19.755
I think it was during my stay in the Priory because meetings are compulsory.

00:40:20.237 --> 00:40:25.005
I mean, I remember saying things like, well, you know, I'm only here because I'm being watched.

00:40:25.505 --> 00:40:28.510
That's how crazy I was.

00:40:28.532 --> 00:40:31.456
I mean, you're a really nice person, and I hope you get well.

00:40:31.476 --> 00:40:39.271
All the people here are lovely, and I hope they all get well, but I'm only here because I'm being watched, which is bullshit.

00:40:40.512 --> 00:40:41.795
Although, maybe I was.

00:40:42.958 --> 00:40:49.188
And for once, the fame thing helped, because that's what kept me going.

00:40:49.550 --> 00:40:49.630
Yeah.

00:40:50.114 --> 00:40:54.340
And if it keeps you going, it's a blessing.

00:40:54.722 --> 00:40:57.387
So I thought, I'll do these meetings because I'm big.

00:40:57.507 --> 00:40:58.568
And ego, it's ego.

00:40:58.768 --> 00:41:00.512
Massive ego.

00:41:01.032 --> 00:41:03.538
And that's one of the biggest things about this disease.

00:41:03.577 --> 00:41:06.402
You have the biggest ego on the outside.

00:41:07.123 --> 00:41:12.092
On the inside, you think you're the worst piece of shit that ever walked the earth.

00:41:13.815 --> 00:41:14.757
So my ego...

00:41:15.521 --> 00:41:17.264
I was going, oh, can I keep going to these meetings?

00:41:18.465 --> 00:41:20.467
And I hated it at first.

00:41:21.347 --> 00:41:27.072
So anyone who's watching or listening to this, who's just going on this journey of going to meetings, believe me, you won't like it.

00:41:28.474 --> 00:41:29.195
I didn't like it.

00:41:29.456 --> 00:41:30.737
I don't think anyone likes it.

00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:35.501
And I sat there and I was thinking, and they're lovely people.

00:41:35.581 --> 00:41:37.804
As I said, oh, these are really nice people.

00:41:38.244 --> 00:41:39.885
I didn't listen.

00:41:40.045 --> 00:41:42.447
I just went there because I knew I had to go.

00:41:43.188 --> 00:41:44.230
But eventually...

00:41:44.673 --> 00:41:54.456
almost by a series of osmosis, the recovery message started to drop and I was in this horrible scout hut, stank of pee.

00:41:55.016 --> 00:42:01.190
There was canoes on the ceiling and I didn't like the room because I was very important.

00:42:02.233 --> 00:42:03.597
I had a tan and everything.

00:42:04.289 --> 00:42:08.137
Why am I in this room?

00:42:08.858 --> 00:42:09.619
I've got a tan.

00:42:11.302 --> 00:42:18.514
But I've got to be here because I'm being watched.

00:42:18.594 --> 00:42:21.800
But eventually, I love that

00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:22.302
room.

00:42:23.222 --> 00:42:24.846
I love that room.

00:42:27.411 --> 00:42:29.373
And I couldn't wait to get in it.

00:42:29.538 --> 00:42:29.918
Yeah.

00:42:29.938 --> 00:42:33.242
Because it's the only place I got into where everyone understood what I was talking about.

00:42:33.402 --> 00:42:33.583
Yeah.

00:42:33.824 --> 00:42:38.128
It was one of the things that I read was when the facilitator had said to you, does that make sense to you?

00:42:38.208 --> 00:42:38.849
And you went, no.

00:42:38.969 --> 00:42:39.751
And she went, do you know what?

00:42:39.771 --> 00:42:41.954
That's the best honest thing you've said since you've been here.

00:42:41.994 --> 00:42:42.134
Yeah.

00:42:42.193 --> 00:42:43.335
And you said you liked that.

00:42:43.496 --> 00:42:43.635
Yeah.

00:42:43.655 --> 00:42:44.538
You liked that.

00:42:44.717 --> 00:42:46.920
I mean, it taught me through that then, that sort of acceptance.

00:42:46.981 --> 00:42:56.954
Because that's one thing that I think is really good about the fellowship for people that are ambivalent to go, don't really want to go, is when they...

00:42:57.409 --> 00:43:02.056
their feelings of acceptance, because a lot of people in addiction are very isolated and lonely.

00:43:02.175 --> 00:43:07.282
And then you're suddenly in a room with people who, like you said, there's the denial element, like I don't belong here.

00:43:07.443 --> 00:43:13.090
And then once you realize, hang on, these are my peers and they understand me, that's a lifeline to a lot of people.

00:43:13.251 --> 00:43:13.371
When

00:43:13.411 --> 00:43:17.978
I first got to rehab, I thought I was Billy Big Ball.

00:43:18.297 --> 00:43:27.230
And understandably, because when you're being attacked or you feel as though you're being attacked, you portray your strengths.

00:43:27.362 --> 00:43:28.114
No

00:43:28.155 --> 00:43:36.697
matter what you do, what you're good at, So I knew I was a good actor because I had the laurels and the people watching me.

00:43:37.117 --> 00:43:38.679
So I said, I'm an actor.

00:43:38.840 --> 00:43:39.541
I'm an actor.

00:43:39.922 --> 00:43:40.603
I'm an actor.

00:43:40.623 --> 00:43:41.684
I'm an actor.

00:43:41.724 --> 00:43:42.344
I'm an actor.

00:43:42.364 --> 00:43:44.547
And that's just a deflection.

00:43:46.070 --> 00:43:49.833
And I hated the woman that was talking to me.

00:43:49.875 --> 00:43:53.719
She's now one of my favorite people in the world.

00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:57.364
But I'm an actor.

00:43:57.423 --> 00:43:57.804
I'm an actor.

00:43:57.824 --> 00:43:58.666
I was full of shit.

00:43:59.362 --> 00:44:00.724
I don't know if we could say shit.

00:44:00.744 --> 00:44:03.110
To be fair, yeah, you can curse all you want, don't worry.

00:44:03.170 --> 00:44:04.414
I was full of shit.

00:44:04.474 --> 00:44:04.815
Yeah,

00:44:04.835 --> 00:44:04.976
right.

00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:07.300
But I had to be.

00:44:08.483 --> 00:44:08.563
Yeah.

00:44:08.583 --> 00:44:10.568
Because that was my defence.

00:44:10.588 --> 00:44:11.572
I am an actor.

00:44:12.393 --> 00:44:13.275
I am very famous.

00:44:13.396 --> 00:44:16.101
I am very important, right?

00:44:18.050 --> 00:44:19.952
And I don't take any criticism.

00:44:20.012 --> 00:44:25.920
Yes, I'm an alcoholic and a drug addict, but I am an actor, and you can't tell me what to do.

00:44:27.101 --> 00:44:27.742
That's what it was.

00:44:28.342 --> 00:44:29.625
Kind of keeping everybody at arm's length.

00:44:29.644 --> 00:44:30.947
Yeah, that was my defense.

00:44:31.367 --> 00:44:39.938
Until one day, the lady was explaining something to me, and it was, again, another moment of clarity when she says, do you understand that?

00:44:40.318 --> 00:44:43.643
And I went, I've got no idea what you're talking about.

00:44:44.985 --> 00:44:45.485
And she said...

00:44:46.369 --> 00:44:48.532
That's the most honest thing you've said since you've been here.

00:44:50.376 --> 00:44:52.018
And I wasn't offended by that.

00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:54.681
I went, she's right.

00:44:56.623 --> 00:45:00.690
And then suddenly, things started to click into place.

00:45:00.730 --> 00:45:02.672
The walls start coming down a little bit.

00:45:02.733 --> 00:45:05.737
I started actually listening to what was being said to me.

00:45:06.518 --> 00:45:09.661
I mean, I've never met a stupid addict.

00:45:10.704 --> 00:45:11.945
I've met unfortunate addicts.

00:45:12.746 --> 00:45:15.170
I've met people that have damaged themselves so much.

00:45:16.289 --> 00:45:18.552
that now they've got problems.

00:45:18.813 --> 00:45:25.061
I've never met a stupid addict because the level of organization that goes into being

00:45:25.222 --> 00:45:25.543
an addict

00:45:26.023 --> 00:45:26.103
is

00:45:26.164 --> 00:45:26.583
immense.

00:45:27.244 --> 00:45:30.168
Some of the most intelligent people I think I've ever met have been in addiction.

00:45:30.268 --> 00:45:32.793
Remembering what lie goes where, who you told what to

00:45:32.853 --> 00:45:33.554
and all that.

00:45:33.634 --> 00:45:34.074
That's a

00:45:34.195 --> 00:45:36.838
heavy duty stuff.

00:45:37.940 --> 00:45:40.443
So I did get it on a...

00:45:41.505 --> 00:45:42.525
This is the interesting thing.

00:45:42.686 --> 00:45:44.349
I got it on an intellectual level,

00:45:45.050 --> 00:45:45.150
right?

00:45:45.762 --> 00:45:47.563
You carry this on, you're going to die.

00:45:47.583 --> 00:45:48.625
I understood that.

00:45:48.824 --> 00:45:49.445
Of course, yeah.

00:45:49.746 --> 00:45:50.005
Up it.

00:45:50.246 --> 00:45:51.067
I get that, right?

00:45:51.367 --> 00:45:53.730
What I couldn't get it on was an emotional level.

00:45:55.251 --> 00:45:57.773
I didn't understand that on an emotional level.

00:45:59.014 --> 00:45:59.175
Yeah.

00:45:59.715 --> 00:46:02.438
And that took time for that to get in.

00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:06.523
And that's when things started to change as soon as I got honest.

00:46:06.722 --> 00:46:10.887
And being honest, again, if you're listening or watching this, being honest is the key.

00:46:11.887 --> 00:46:12.728
Mostly with yourself.

00:46:13.469 --> 00:46:13.548
Yeah.

00:46:13.568 --> 00:46:14.110
You know?

00:46:14.338 --> 00:46:15.920
You've got to be honest.

00:46:17.744 --> 00:46:20.291
And it's difficult because we've told so many lies.

00:46:20.731 --> 00:46:27.927
Half-truths, outright lies, half-truths, white lies, black lies, whatever.

00:46:28.728 --> 00:46:31.014
You've got to get honest and you've got to get honest with yourself.

00:46:31.054 --> 00:46:31.114
Did

00:46:32.376 --> 00:46:33.478
you get a sponsor?

00:46:33.559 --> 00:46:34.782
Did the private...

00:46:34.945 --> 00:46:36.306
Assign you a sponsor?

00:46:36.387 --> 00:46:36.628
They don't

00:46:36.668 --> 00:46:37.668
assign you one.

00:46:37.768 --> 00:46:50.581
They recommend, like the rooms of AA, which, again, I have to say, for me, I couldn't have done this without the rooms of AA or CA or any of the fellowships.

00:46:51.063 --> 00:46:51.523
They're there.

00:46:51.864 --> 00:46:52.704
They're there to be used.

00:46:54.025 --> 00:46:59.831
And I used them to the full extent for the first year, and I still do.

00:47:00.753 --> 00:47:01.454
That is vital.

00:47:02.306 --> 00:47:09.561
because for two reasons, you're gonna get the best advice in there because these people have been there, right?

00:47:09.822 --> 00:47:12.568
And two, it's free.

00:47:14.793 --> 00:47:15.715
It's free.

00:47:17.038 --> 00:47:18.159
All you gotta do is go.

00:47:18.179 --> 00:47:20.545
It's free.

00:47:21.954 --> 00:47:23.876
Brilliant, thank you.

00:47:24.516 --> 00:47:31.224
I told you about how I embraced the idea of being a lunatic and everything.

00:47:31.244 --> 00:47:32.326
I thought it was quite romantic.

00:47:32.425 --> 00:47:33.827
I embraced recovery,

00:47:34.148 --> 00:47:34.307
right?

00:47:35.088 --> 00:47:38.693
I grabbed it with both hands and I wanted it all, right?

00:47:38.952 --> 00:47:43.539
I wanted it all because I was looking at the people around me in the AA rooms and they're all laughing.

00:47:43.938 --> 00:47:58.760
And believe me, the rooms of AA can be the most hysterical, funny places I've never been in with the stories because there's tragedy, there's comedy, right?

00:47:58.780 --> 00:47:59.541
It's that close.

00:48:00.724 --> 00:48:04.650
So someone could be telling you the most tragic story, but it's hilarious.

00:48:05.291 --> 00:48:12.605
Because when you think it's like a sitcom, when you think nothing worse could happen to this person, it happens.

00:48:13.570 --> 00:48:15.974
And the nature of the human beings is to laugh.

00:48:16.014 --> 00:48:17.856
We laugh when someone slips on a banana skin.

00:48:17.916 --> 00:48:18.737
It's funny.

00:48:18.918 --> 00:48:19.378
It hurts.

00:48:19.478 --> 00:48:21.442
It could break something, but it's funny.

00:48:22.784 --> 00:48:23.324
Can't help it.

00:48:23.965 --> 00:48:25.248
That's what recovery is like.

00:48:25.347 --> 00:48:28.052
And recovery is not all ginger beer and Jesus.

00:48:28.733 --> 00:48:29.434
It's not.

00:48:30.215 --> 00:48:31.456
There's a lot of fellowship.

00:48:31.657 --> 00:48:37.125
And you will find friends in the fellowship that...

00:48:37.826 --> 00:48:40.568
you've got a lifelong bond with.

00:48:41.269 --> 00:49:02.836
And I have been, again, lucky enough to have been around the world, and I have met some very, very senior people in business, in government, in the acting circle, film stars, theatre, massive, massive stars, far bigger than I'll ever be.

00:49:05.217 --> 00:49:10.206
And I find out they're in recovery, or they find out I'm in recovery, and we're on the same level.

00:49:11.146 --> 00:49:11.768
All of a sudden.

00:49:12.809 --> 00:49:14.211
Because we're talking about the same thing.

00:49:14.913 --> 00:49:18.137
It's a shared experience of survival.

00:49:19.099 --> 00:49:20.101
And there's a bond there.

00:49:22.605 --> 00:49:24.829
So I just grabbed all this while I could.

00:49:24.849 --> 00:49:26.632
And I wanted to do everything they said.

00:49:26.672 --> 00:49:29.195
They said, you can do anything.

00:49:29.356 --> 00:49:30.378
So I thought, right, okay.

00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:33.061
I'm going to be a recording star.

00:49:33.282 --> 00:49:34.543
and I'm going to go to Nashville.

00:49:34.923 --> 00:49:36.144
I'm going to play in Nashville.

00:49:37.967 --> 00:49:40.088
That's what I'm going to do.

00:49:40.108 --> 00:49:40.708
And that's what I did.

00:49:40.748 --> 00:49:51.639
Now, I'm not saying to you people that, well, you might, I don't know, that you might, right, if I get sober or if I stop taking drugs, I'm going to be a recording star.

00:49:51.659 --> 00:49:52.581
I'm going to go to Nashville.

00:49:54.362 --> 00:49:55.023
That's not the point.

00:49:56.085 --> 00:49:56.625
You may do.

00:49:56.846 --> 00:49:58.327
And if you do, good luck to you.

00:49:58.447 --> 00:49:58.867
I love you.

00:49:59.889 --> 00:50:04.072
But what I'm saying to you is You can do anything.

00:50:05.253 --> 00:50:08.597
You can do anything if you just put it down.

00:50:09.298 --> 00:50:10.780
Your life will open up.

00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:14.847
I promise you, your life will get so much better.

00:50:15.668 --> 00:50:16.309
Two promises.

00:50:16.349 --> 00:50:21.476
First promise, if you don't stop, it ain't going to get better.

00:50:22.056 --> 00:50:24.018
That's absolutely nailed on.

00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:34.831
Two, if you do stop and you listen to what people say, tell you to do in the rooms of AANACA or the rest of the fellowships, your life will get better.

00:50:35.532 --> 00:50:36.313
I promise you.

00:50:36.353 --> 00:50:40.257
Thank

00:50:40.277 --> 00:50:40.336
you.

00:50:40.376 --> 00:50:42.619
No, I completely agree with you.

00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:45.481
Tell me about the band in Nashville then, before we move on.

00:50:45.621 --> 00:50:45.842
Well,

00:50:47.244 --> 00:50:51.467
I was newly sober and I was told I could do whatever I wanted.

00:50:51.708 --> 00:51:04.657
And while I was at, I was still doing Granada, and Simon Cowell, Before he was God, he ran his record company, I think it was BGA or something like that.

00:51:05.478 --> 00:51:13.907
And I sent some music down to him under a pseudonym for a song called Bulldog Nation.

00:51:16.130 --> 00:51:17.371
And he requested a meeting.

00:51:19.092 --> 00:51:23.518
So I went down to meet him and I walked in and he went...

00:51:23.681 --> 00:51:25.005
I know you, I know you.

00:51:25.065 --> 00:51:30.697
And I said, we did this because I didn't want you to judge it on being in a soap.

00:51:30.717 --> 00:51:32.202
I wanted you to judge it musically.

00:51:33.164 --> 00:51:34.867
And to his credit, he signed.

00:51:35.027 --> 00:51:35.610
He signed me.

00:51:36.001 --> 00:51:39.768
Which then started a whole kind of weird stuff happening.

00:51:39.788 --> 00:51:42.692
I mean, I've been playing in country bands for a long time anyway.

00:51:42.711 --> 00:51:50.262
I've been playing with a show band in Manchester, an Irish show band called The Borderline.

00:51:51.043 --> 00:51:54.690
And that was my reaction because I hated pop music.

00:51:55.010 --> 00:51:59.275
There was no more guitar bands in the early 80s.

00:51:59.416 --> 00:52:01.438
It was all Stock Aikman and Walkman, and I hated it.

00:52:02.420 --> 00:52:03.842
I couldn't listen to it.

00:52:04.543 --> 00:52:13.876
So being a guitar boy, the only way I could kind of get my fix, for the better word, was to go and join a band.

00:52:13.896 --> 00:52:18.302
So I joined the Borderline, and that was the best training you could get musically.

00:52:18.753 --> 00:52:20.896
which stood me in good stead later on in life.

00:52:21.458 --> 00:52:29.971
So I played with the boys for four or five years, because I didn't want to be photographed in a headlock outside some club in London.

00:52:32.293 --> 00:52:39.105
So whilst people were going and getting drunk in Stringfellows in London or whatever, I was playing in St.

00:52:39.224 --> 00:52:48.085
Cuthbert's, the Ardrey, other famous Irish drinking halls in Manchester as an anonymous bass player.

00:52:48.846 --> 00:52:48.925
Okay.

00:52:48.945 --> 00:52:49.847
He's never advertised.

00:52:49.907 --> 00:52:51.027
Do you sing in your Irish accent?

00:52:51.148 --> 00:52:51.307
No.

00:52:51.909 --> 00:52:52.349
That's a shame.

00:52:52.690 --> 00:52:52.869
No.

00:52:53.070 --> 00:52:54.550
And it was brilliant.

00:52:54.711 --> 00:52:56.353
It was like kind of a Manchester secret.

00:52:56.773 --> 00:52:57.353
Yeah, yeah.

00:52:57.373 --> 00:53:00.556
You never guess who's a bass player with them because he was never advertised.

00:53:00.858 --> 00:53:01.137
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:53:01.157 --> 00:53:01.938
And it was cool.

00:53:02.278 --> 00:53:02.398
Yeah.

00:53:02.418 --> 00:53:02.920
You know what I mean?

00:53:02.980 --> 00:53:05.862
Because I just turned up and, you look like, yeah.

00:53:07.284 --> 00:53:07.903
Get it all the time.

00:53:07.923 --> 00:53:08.844
Yeah, get it all the time.

00:53:09.206 --> 00:53:09.565
Yeah.

00:53:10.338 --> 00:53:21.034
On one famous occasion, a mate of mine, Dougie James Soltrain, who was a massive band in Manchester, and I went on roadieing for him once, just so I could be around music.

00:53:21.494 --> 00:53:31.610
And there was this fellow, and he was a Michael Jackson lookalike, and he was in the dressing room putting on, and I'm oiking the gear, and he went, you look like, are you doing a show?

00:53:31.750 --> 00:53:33.914
Are you like Curly Watts lookalike?

00:53:34.054 --> 00:53:36.538
And I said, no, no, I'm just the roadie.

00:53:36.557 --> 00:53:39.422
He said, yeah, well, it's just as well you look fuck all like him.

00:53:39.585 --> 00:53:44.050
And of course Dougie and the boys were laughing and it was a great moment.

00:53:44.990 --> 00:53:48.815
So I was always around music and I always found it a great outlet.

00:53:49.074 --> 00:53:50.096
And plus I could drink.

00:53:52.137 --> 00:53:53.659
That's a big plus at the time.

00:53:54.320 --> 00:54:00.105
So when I got sober, I sent this demo down and he signed me.

00:54:01.347 --> 00:54:08.612
We made an album, which the single I think got to something like number 34.

00:54:09.346 --> 00:54:14.932
wedged between Madonna and Jerry Halliwell, which is, you know.

00:54:14.952 --> 00:54:16.474
Not terrible, though, to hit the top four.

00:54:16.496 --> 00:54:18.918
Well, if you're going to get wedged between those

00:54:18.938 --> 00:54:19.239
two,

00:54:19.398 --> 00:54:20.380
that's not too bad, is it?

00:54:22.143 --> 00:54:24.166
So, you know, it was okay.

00:54:24.206 --> 00:54:25.286
But then they dropped me.

00:54:25.327 --> 00:54:33.137
But then EMI picked it up, and I ended up going to Australia, New Zealand.

00:54:33.697 --> 00:54:36.161
The album went gold in New Zealand.

00:54:36.641 --> 00:54:40.594
And then I got invited to play in the deep south of America.

00:54:40.635 --> 00:54:46.936
So I played at the River Fest in Kansas or Arkansas.

00:54:47.277 --> 00:54:47.820
Little Rock.

00:54:48.302 --> 00:54:48.382
Yeah.

00:54:48.610 --> 00:55:04.090
famously the place where the little black girl went to school for the first time in the 60s but they had a big river fest there and I was on the same bill as Steve Earle Willie Nelson Johnny Cash I mean I was

00:55:04.451 --> 00:55:08.436
right and

00:55:08.456 --> 00:55:16.086
then I got invited and then I went to a place called Elvis Presley's Memphis on Beale Street in Memphis and I played that night I played there as well

00:55:16.126 --> 00:55:16.146
I

00:55:17.509 --> 00:56:04.795
played the Reading Festival my cousin's band was a band called The Men They Couldn't Hang and that was cool so I'd got this kind of pedigree of playing music and it was nuts because I was still doing Coronation Street and I remember one Friday afternoon I was filming we did an episode about Cavaliers Roundheads and Cavaliers and we were in this park in Manchester where I used to play as a kid weirdly enough and we filmed that on a Friday Friday night I got a plane to Atlanta, Georgia, got picked up, was taken to Clarksville, I think it was, which was Morgan Freeman's got a blues club there called Ground Zero, which is right on the Mississippi.

00:56:05.818 --> 00:56:07.742
And I played there that night.

00:56:07.873 --> 00:56:09.856
So it was a bizarre experience.

00:56:10.277 --> 00:56:18.849
But the point with recovery is because I was so wrapped up in this, I could do anything I could do.

00:56:19.309 --> 00:56:29.204
And then Coronation Street came to an end, which I think if I'd have been still using and drinking, would have finished me off.

00:56:29.844 --> 00:56:32.668
I'd have gone straight into the poor me's, poor me's, poor me's.

00:56:33.670 --> 00:56:35.592
But because I was...

00:56:36.418 --> 00:56:38.099
I was clean and I was sober.

00:56:39.460 --> 00:56:44.766
I thought, yeah, although it was devastating, but I thought, well, hang on, wait a minute.

00:56:44.806 --> 00:56:46.688
This could be another beginning.

00:56:46.807 --> 00:56:47.949
And yet another beginning.

00:56:48.289 --> 00:56:49.731
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

00:56:49.831 --> 00:56:50.451
Another beginning.

00:56:51.052 --> 00:56:59.199
And because I played so much music, my musicals came along, which is something I'd never even thought about.

00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:00.000
And

00:57:00.019 --> 00:57:02.362
this was before they were really popular like they are now.

00:57:03.222 --> 00:57:06.065
And the first one I did was Rocky Horror.

00:57:06.914 --> 00:57:20.672
And Johnny Wilkes, who was playing Frank, who'd been a mate of mine anyway, he introduced me to the nuances of musical theatre, which is totally different.

00:57:21.152 --> 00:57:23.275
It's as different from Shakespeare to Panto.

00:57:23.916 --> 00:57:26.940
It has its own language, it has its own rules.

00:57:27.681 --> 00:57:29.465
And I loved it.

00:57:29.844 --> 00:57:30.445
What was that like, though?

00:57:30.465 --> 00:57:34.112
Because obviously by this point, you was already a seasoned star actor.

00:57:34.532 --> 00:57:36.936
Did it feel weird becoming a student again?

00:57:36.976 --> 00:57:38.719
Do you talk a lot about ego?

00:57:39.059 --> 00:57:40.943
Well, no, because I'd done theatre before.

00:57:40.963 --> 00:57:45.090
I mean, the idea was never to be on TV.

00:57:46.311 --> 00:57:47.994
I was trained in theatre.

00:57:48.574 --> 00:57:55.485
And I'd done the West End, and I'd done tours, and I'd done the odd show here and there, and Shakespeare's, before I even got to Corrie.

00:57:55.681 --> 00:57:58.905
So to me, it was just like going home.

00:57:58.925 --> 00:58:00.306
Yes, I know what you mean.

00:58:00.407 --> 00:58:02.409
It was a new discipline.

00:58:03.731 --> 00:58:06.152
But because I had this, I could do this.

00:58:06.373 --> 00:58:07.894
All I've got to do is not drink.

00:58:09.197 --> 00:58:10.057
That's all I've got to do.

00:58:10.798 --> 00:58:11.259
And I embraced it.

00:58:11.278 --> 00:58:14.262
I didn't do it well sometimes, but I learnt.

00:58:15.083 --> 00:58:19.307
And being humble, I think, is a new experience for me.

00:58:19.568 --> 00:58:20.989
It was then, and it still is.

00:58:21.030 --> 00:58:24.213
Humble enough to watch other people and go...

00:58:25.025 --> 00:58:25.487
That's good.

00:58:25.547 --> 00:58:26.186
How do I do that?

00:58:26.226 --> 00:58:27.469
And ask.

00:58:29.431 --> 00:58:35.757
It's just interesting when you talk about egos because obviously you've come in here and you just seem like an everyday person.

00:58:36.117 --> 00:58:36.778
Excuse me one sec.

00:58:39.981 --> 00:58:41.143
I don't know who that is.

00:58:41.164 --> 00:58:41.764
It's my missus.

00:58:41.983 --> 00:58:43.005
Do you want to take

00:58:43.085 --> 00:58:43.246
it off?

00:58:43.286 --> 00:58:43.405
No, no.

00:58:43.485 --> 00:58:43.867
Are you okay?

00:58:45.108 --> 00:58:47.250
I suppose let's talk a little bit about...

00:58:47.990 --> 00:58:48.612
Kennedy Street.

00:58:48.652 --> 00:58:49.432
Yeah, Kennedy Street.

00:58:49.472 --> 00:58:51.594
Obviously you just mentioned your missus there.

00:58:51.815 --> 00:58:54.338
Claire and I, my wife, when I first got...

00:58:54.786 --> 00:58:57.449
sober when we first started this journey.

00:58:57.469 --> 00:58:58.329
We started it together.

00:58:58.369 --> 00:59:03.315
We realized that there is so much shame and stigma that who do you ask?

00:59:03.454 --> 00:59:05.996
How do you ask someone for help?

00:59:06.478 --> 00:59:07.398
Because that's the answer.

00:59:07.438 --> 00:59:12.302
The answer to any addiction is asking for help and meaning it.

00:59:13.284 --> 00:59:13.885
That's the answer.

00:59:13.925 --> 00:59:14.865
That's the start point.

00:59:15.646 --> 00:59:18.148
Always the hardest, but that's the start point.

00:59:19.771 --> 00:59:22.653
So we thought, where do you go to?

00:59:23.106 --> 00:59:27.269
So we came up with Kennedy Street, which was an idea.

00:59:28.251 --> 00:59:37.360
We were in America and we went, we were looking for a meeting and we found this meeting house, it was out in Florida somewhere, and it was amazing.

00:59:37.460 --> 00:59:48.291
You walked in this meeting house, it was kind of a cafe bar in the middle, and on one side was AA, Narcotics Anonymous, or CA, you know, cocaine, on the other side was AA, Alcoholics Anonymous.

00:59:48.813 --> 00:59:49.753
And we thought, this is brilliant.

00:59:50.210 --> 00:59:51.050
This is brilliant.

00:59:51.110 --> 00:59:52.672
And that idea stayed with us for a while.

00:59:52.733 --> 00:59:55.835
And Kennedy Street was just, it was in the ether.

00:59:55.956 --> 00:59:59.159
You've typed it in and you get a phone number to ring.

00:59:59.219 --> 01:00:01.460
And then that was just me and Claire.

01:00:01.862 --> 01:00:03.342
We said, well, listen, you got to do this.

01:00:03.382 --> 01:00:04.463
You got to do that, whatever.

01:00:04.804 --> 01:00:17.518
And that idea grew and grew and grew over 20 years until just before the pandemic, we actually got a physical building, which I'm sure you guys know how difficult it is to get, which is now in Brighton.

01:00:17.954 --> 01:00:20.135
And it's the Kennedy Street Recovery.

01:00:21.137 --> 01:00:24.740
Because we've always kept the name Kennedy Street for obvious reasons.

01:00:25.581 --> 01:00:35.132
And so now what we do is, it's all run by peers, people who've been in addiction, all volunteers who are in recovery.

01:00:35.992 --> 01:00:39.436
And it always starts with a cup of tea.

01:00:40.657 --> 01:00:41.398
Come in, have a brew.

01:00:43.681 --> 01:00:44.262
No judgment.

01:00:45.538 --> 01:00:46.338
It's a safe place.

01:00:46.398 --> 01:00:47.119
It's not a hospital.

01:00:47.199 --> 01:00:48.222
It's not a police station.

01:00:48.762 --> 01:00:50.123
It's not affiliated with anyone.

01:00:50.704 --> 01:00:51.666
So come in and have a cup of tea.

01:00:52.628 --> 01:00:58.996
And you can come in and have a cup of tea, be honest with us, and we'll say, okay, well, these are your options.

01:00:59.597 --> 01:01:07.829
We always go for the free option because we know money's tight or just unavailable or just not possible.

01:01:08.530 --> 01:01:09.371
We can send you here.

01:01:09.431 --> 01:01:10.231
We can send you there.

01:01:10.773 --> 01:01:11.693
We can give you the address.

01:01:12.534 --> 01:01:14.557
And it's not, it's a hands-up option.

01:01:15.106 --> 01:01:15.867
place.

01:01:15.947 --> 01:01:17.550
It's not a hands-out place.

01:01:18.411 --> 01:01:23.822
If you come with your hand out wanting stuff, unless you're in recovery, then you're not going to get it.

01:01:24.222 --> 01:01:25.806
You go, look, I've got a problem.

01:01:26.748 --> 01:01:27.548
I like that.

01:01:27.588 --> 01:01:27.929
Hands up.

01:01:28.311 --> 01:01:29.432
Hands up, not hands out.

01:01:30.315 --> 01:01:33.521
And we will help anyone.

01:01:34.657 --> 01:01:36.862
And so that's how it works.

01:01:37.382 --> 01:01:43.835
We're also there for people that are in recovery or trying to get back into work.

01:01:45.777 --> 01:01:54.333
We get people in to run stuff, workshops, how to fill out forms, how to do this, how to do that.

01:01:54.775 --> 01:01:56.478
It's just to get people back in.

01:01:57.025 --> 01:01:59.449
to the mainstream of life.

01:01:59.489 --> 01:02:02.094
Because at the end of the day, it's a bridge to normal living.

01:02:02.273 --> 01:02:04.938
You're not going to walk away from alcohol.

01:02:06.481 --> 01:02:08.242
It's going to be around you all the time.

01:02:08.643 --> 01:02:09.905
Drugs are going to be there.

01:02:11.708 --> 01:02:14.552
We try and give you the tools to go, no, I've done that thing.

01:02:15.193 --> 01:02:15.574
No, thanks.

01:02:16.797 --> 01:02:19.039
Used all that, drank all of that.

01:02:21.384 --> 01:02:23.407
You, no, I've done all that.

01:02:23.586 --> 01:02:25.090
No, not for me anymore, thanks.

01:02:25.505 --> 01:02:26.327
Yeah.

01:02:26.347 --> 01:02:28.268
And, you know, recovery is the new rock and roll.

01:02:29.851 --> 01:02:29.931
Yeah.

01:02:29.951 --> 01:02:31.411
Recovery is the new rock and roll.

01:02:31.572 --> 01:02:33.373
It's the hardest thing to do in the world.

01:02:34.235 --> 01:02:35.155
And so that's what we do.

01:02:35.235 --> 01:02:36.438
That's how we try to help people.

01:02:36.697 --> 01:02:38.039
Is it just you and Claire or do you have volunteers?

01:02:38.059 --> 01:02:38.840
We have volunteers.

01:02:38.980 --> 01:02:39.440
Ah, nice,

01:02:39.460 --> 01:02:40.121
yeah.

01:02:40.242 --> 01:02:42.324
We got the building off Brighton Council.

01:02:42.724 --> 01:02:44.025
God bless you, Brighton Council.

01:02:45.748 --> 01:02:50.853
And, you know, we've not even had it a year yet.

01:02:51.713 --> 01:02:51.773
Hmm.

01:02:51.938 --> 01:02:55.862
And so we're just learning.

01:02:55.902 --> 01:02:57.364
We're getting on our feet.

01:02:57.623 --> 01:03:01.509
We take a lot of advice from other organizations.

01:03:02.489 --> 01:03:08.757
We will be into your ribs for ideas and how we do.

01:03:08.856 --> 01:03:09.757
It's

01:03:09.797 --> 01:03:11.119
everything that comes with addiction.

01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:14.663
Like you said, there's one thing to come and say, look, I've got a problem with alcohol.

01:03:14.682 --> 01:03:15.384
I've got a problem with drugs.

01:03:15.423 --> 01:03:17.085
But as you've said then, there's...

01:03:17.250 --> 01:03:23.679
employment, there's mental health, there's all this stuff that comes into it, isn't it?

01:03:23.739 --> 01:03:27.003
That's why the infrastructure needed to run something like that.

01:03:27.083 --> 01:03:32.389
It could be quite big, but bring it down to its basic value is, I need help and I'm willing to give you help.

01:03:32.590 --> 01:03:33.010
That is it.

01:03:33.110 --> 01:03:33.452
That is

01:03:33.492 --> 01:03:34.693
the two things you need.

01:03:34.914 --> 01:03:36.815
I need help, I am willing to do anything.

01:03:37.117 --> 01:03:40.221
That's it.

01:03:40.280 --> 01:03:40.460
That

01:03:40.561 --> 01:03:41.623
is it.

01:03:42.563 --> 01:03:46.909
And then you go, okay, we need you to go to a meeting tonight, now.

01:03:47.938 --> 01:03:49.920
Maybe that commitment to be able to do that as well.

01:03:51.403 --> 01:03:56.813
What advice would you give to people perhaps with a hidden addiction or something that they're worried about keeping from their family?

01:03:57.012 --> 01:04:01.201
I know you've said about getting to a meeting or something else.

01:04:01.400 --> 01:04:12.400
If you don't want your family to know about your addiction, and I totally understand this, whether it be gambling, especially gambling, that's why they're called anonymous.

01:04:14.722 --> 01:04:16.824
No one is going to grass you up.

01:04:17.065 --> 01:04:20.311
No one is going to break your anonymity.

01:04:20.811 --> 01:04:21.813
I can't even say it.

01:04:22.012 --> 01:04:22.894
Never mind grass you up.

01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:26.018
Go along.

01:04:26.059 --> 01:04:27.260
Ask for help.

01:04:28.242 --> 01:04:30.005
And you will get it.

01:04:31.728 --> 01:04:31.807
Yeah.

01:04:31.827 --> 01:04:35.233
But once you've started that journey, then it's up to you.

01:04:35.713 --> 01:04:36.516
You've got to do it.

01:04:36.635 --> 01:04:37.516
And it's not easy.

01:04:37.797 --> 01:04:37.978
No.

01:04:38.177 --> 01:04:39.099
It's not easy.

01:04:39.139 --> 01:04:41.722
Believe me, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

01:04:42.222 --> 01:04:42.884
But it's not.

01:04:43.423 --> 01:04:53.496
And what you've got to remember is addicts, whether you're a gambler, drug addict, alcoholic, we're special people.

01:04:54.038 --> 01:04:56.280
We should be dead so many times over.

01:04:57.021 --> 01:04:57.501
But we're not.

01:04:58.202 --> 01:05:01.065
We're not dead because we're hard to kill.

01:05:01.987 --> 01:05:02.708
We're survivors.

01:05:04.811 --> 01:05:05.492
Go and get some help.

01:05:05.952 --> 01:05:08.871
Because believe me, your life will get better.

01:05:09.851 --> 01:05:10.172
Brilliant.

01:05:10.231 --> 01:05:10.753
Thank you, Kevin.

01:05:11.293 --> 01:05:13.255
I've got a series of questions that I ask all our guests.

01:05:13.554 --> 01:05:17.478
It's relevant to everything that we've spoken about so far, but it's just a nice way to end the podcast.

01:05:17.498 --> 01:05:19.740
So we're going to come out of left field a little bit here.

01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:22.463
But my first question is, what is your favourite word?

01:05:23.784 --> 01:05:24.226
Bollocks.

01:05:25.547 --> 01:05:26.867
What's your least favourite word?

01:05:28.909 --> 01:05:29.451
Tax.

01:05:30.351 --> 01:05:31.612
Tell me something that excites you.

01:05:36.137 --> 01:05:36.838
Not so many.

01:05:38.561 --> 01:05:39.322
New strings.

01:05:39.963 --> 01:05:40.123
Nice.

01:05:40.764 --> 01:05:43.407
New strings on a guitar excite me.

01:05:43.626 --> 01:05:44.327
Tell me something that doesn't

01:05:44.387 --> 01:05:44.827
excite you.

01:05:46.989 --> 01:05:47.550
Old strings.

01:05:50.052 --> 01:05:50.634
Waiting.

01:05:51.193 --> 01:05:51.333
Yeah,

01:05:52.175 --> 01:05:52.394
fair enough.

01:05:52.414 --> 01:05:52.916
Understandable.

01:05:53.777 --> 01:05:55.418
What sound or noise do you love?

01:06:01.523 --> 01:06:03.166
I like to hear my children laughing.

01:06:03.485 --> 01:06:03.987
That's nice.

01:06:05.927 --> 01:06:07.389
Tell me a sound or noise that you hate.

01:06:09.666 --> 01:06:11.047
Phones in hotels.

01:06:12.248 --> 01:06:13.411
Because it always...

01:06:13.471 --> 01:06:14.452
So specific.

01:06:14.472 --> 01:06:16.173
Yeah, because it always reminds me of...

01:06:17.396 --> 01:06:18.036
Where are you?

01:06:19.759 --> 01:06:20.079
Fear.

01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:21.981
Yeah.

01:06:22.001 --> 01:06:24.784
I get that.

01:06:25.847 --> 01:06:26.967
What's your favourite curse word?

01:06:27.027 --> 01:06:28.210
And not bollocks, something else.

01:06:28.449 --> 01:06:31.454
We've got a different one.

01:06:31.474 --> 01:06:33.195
I like how Ellie was asking, can I swear on this?

01:06:33.235 --> 01:06:34.878
And I was like, what's your favourite curse word?

01:06:36.610 --> 01:06:37.271
Fuck.

01:06:37.570 --> 01:06:37.731
Yeah.

01:06:38.311 --> 01:06:39.512
Because that just covers everything.

01:06:39.554 --> 01:06:39.594
It

01:06:39.733 --> 01:06:40.173
does, yeah.

01:06:40.355 --> 01:06:40.835
Fuck off.

01:06:41.034 --> 01:06:41.635
It's fucked.

01:06:42.556 --> 01:06:45.920
The context is infinite, isn't it, for the word fuck?

01:06:47.782 --> 01:06:50.467
If you wasn't an actor, what profession would you like to attempt?

01:06:52.688 --> 01:06:57.054
I think I'd be a muso or a musician.

01:06:57.835 --> 01:06:57.976
Oh, yeah.

01:06:57.996 --> 01:07:01.219
Or I'd be some kind of historian.

01:07:02.141 --> 01:07:03.021
Oh, historian.

01:07:03.061 --> 01:07:03.722
Where does that come from?

01:07:04.023 --> 01:07:05.143
I've always liked history.

01:07:05.585 --> 01:07:06.405
It fascinates me.

01:07:06.722 --> 01:07:07.163
I like

01:07:08.244 --> 01:07:08.565
it.

01:07:08.585 --> 01:07:08.666
Yeah.

01:07:10.009 --> 01:07:11.311
What profession would you not like to do?

01:07:14.458 --> 01:07:14.998
Dentist.

01:07:15.780 --> 01:07:16.222
Dentist.

01:07:16.541 --> 01:07:17.523
I wouldn't fancy that.

01:07:18.565 --> 01:07:21.572
Is it correct that you were in a band with members of the Smiths?

01:07:22.313 --> 01:07:22.655
I was.

01:07:22.695 --> 01:07:28.045
When I was 14, I was with Johnny Marr.

01:07:28.865 --> 01:07:34.056
Again, we were only 14, and I didn't put that much credence on it until I read Johnny's book.

01:07:34.978 --> 01:07:37.224
And he puts a lot of importance on it, so I thought, okay.

01:07:38.326 --> 01:07:43.396
And yeah, so that was...

01:07:44.865 --> 01:07:45.626
Again, 14.

01:07:45.646 --> 01:07:46.748
So, yeah, I was.

01:07:47.409 --> 01:07:47.550
Nice.

01:07:47.889 --> 01:07:49.452
You see, this isn't a question we ask everybody.

01:07:49.492 --> 01:07:50.755
That one's tailored to you.

01:07:51.235 --> 01:07:52.016
One more tailored to you.

01:07:52.036 --> 01:07:52.938
You're a big Man City fan.

01:07:53.759 --> 01:07:53.838
Yeah.

01:07:54.018 --> 01:07:57.483
Are we watching the greatest team ever to be assembled in England right now?

01:07:57.664 --> 01:07:59.206
And what are your predictions for the final?

01:07:59.788 --> 01:07:59.807
I

01:08:02.231 --> 01:08:03.652
can't watch it because I'm on stage.

01:08:04.449 --> 01:08:10.400
Luckily, the crew were great and the best crew in the world give me updates as I come off.

01:08:11.541 --> 01:08:11.621
Nice.

01:08:12.003 --> 01:08:15.489
But if the opposition have scored, they don't tell me because I go on the next scene.

01:08:17.792 --> 01:08:18.934
But if City have scored, they tell me.

01:08:19.015 --> 01:08:20.957
I go like...

01:08:21.578 --> 01:08:26.167
The final, I think we're on a week's break, so I'll catch the final.

01:08:26.747 --> 01:08:27.930
The FA Cup final...

01:08:28.514 --> 01:08:31.036
We're going to be in Belgium at the time with this.

01:08:32.417 --> 01:08:33.519
So that's going to be tricky.

01:08:35.381 --> 01:08:36.921
I'm not sure, unless it's on a Sunday.

01:08:36.942 --> 01:08:36.962
I

01:08:37.662 --> 01:08:38.484
don't know when it is, do you?

01:08:39.345 --> 01:08:39.545
I don't

01:08:39.564 --> 01:08:40.085
know when it is.

01:08:40.145 --> 01:08:41.365
It's normally on a Sunday, isn't it?

01:08:41.407 --> 01:08:42.386
Yeah, it's normally on a Sunday.

01:08:43.427 --> 01:08:47.573
And then lastly, if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?

01:08:48.073 --> 01:08:50.935
Well, firstly, heaven does exist, as does God.

01:08:52.596 --> 01:08:54.099
But it's all in here.

01:08:56.001 --> 01:08:57.162
He'll probably say, you again.

01:08:58.210 --> 01:08:59.572
You mithering bastard.

01:09:00.253 --> 01:09:02.738
More every day you're asking for something.

01:09:04.782 --> 01:09:05.021
Brilliant.

01:09:05.042 --> 01:09:05.462
And that's it.

01:09:05.523 --> 01:09:06.163
Thank you very much.

01:09:06.204 --> 01:09:07.407
You've been an absolute pleasure.

01:09:07.766 --> 01:09:08.188
Thank you.

01:09:08.868 --> 01:09:14.760
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