WEBVTT
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This is a renewed original recording.
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Hello and welcome to season 3 of Believe in People, the British Podcast Award-winning series exploring addiction, recovery, and the stigma that surrounds them.
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I'm Matthew Butler, your host, or as I like to say, your facilitator.
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Today's episode is something special.
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Three years after her first appearance, Nadine is back, and her life looks very different.
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Now six years free from a 17-year heroin addiction, she joins us to talk about what recovery really looks like beyond those early days.
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From a recent ADHD diagnosis to transitioning from methadone to buprenorphine to rebuilding trust with her family and finding purpose through volunteering.
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This is an honest, powerful conversation about change, identity, and what comes next.
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This is Nadine's story, and it's one that you won't want to miss.
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I'm going to jump straight in because I want to think about the progress that you've made.
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And when you think back to the Nadine who was first sat in this podcast chair back in 2023, what feels most different about your life now?
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So I feel really disconnected from the person that I was then, and although I've got love for that person because she made me who I am today, like I feel like I was lost in motherhood.
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I had no sense of self.
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I kind of I had no hobbies, no interests.
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I was building me up from the ground up.
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And I think like I feel like I'm more established as a human being now.
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I have more going on, I know, I know what I want to do with myself.
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Really worked on myself and I know who I am now.
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So I imagine that there's an element of that where you are completely kind of introducing yourself to a new version of you, and you're trying to learn who that person is as well.
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If I think back to who I I mean, 17 years ago I was 17, who I am now is very different to who I was when I was 17.
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I think that's the beauty of recovery as well.
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I get to choose who I want to be this time.
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I get to like pick the best parts of me and work on them and like leave the old parts of me behind, work on those as well to leave them behind.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Yeah.
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It's took a lot of therapy to get me.
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Of course, yeah.
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I think people often feel like just getting off the drugs, though, that's gonna solve all of life's problems.
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That's just the beginning.
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Exactly.
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That's the easiest part of it.
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That's talk to me about that then, because that is something that I have heard before.
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Do you know some people said you know, going to detox and rehab is the easiest part.
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The hard part is when you're out in the community and you have to navigate those triggers without the support system that comes with what you may get at a detox or a rehab placement.
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Absolutely, you've only got you, aren't you, to rely on at the end of the day, and you've got to put in the hard work yourself and do the therapy and learn the root causes and the whys and the what's and the hows.
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Do you know what I mean?
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I feel like I've kind of done that.
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I've really like looked into myself these past few years and really like established who I am and who I want to be and what I want my legacy to be when I leave this earth.
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Do you know what I mean?
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I feel like the like when you've when you've had nothing and you've had to build yourself up from the ground up, material things aren't really that important to you.
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You're like you realise that that's not what's really important in life, it's about the energy, what you want to put out, and the legacy, what you leave when you're gone.
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I don't think no one's gonna look and say, Oh, they they had a really good wardrobe full of clothes, like that's not what people are.
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Yeah, no, you're right, it's about who you are as a person.
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What do you think you have learnt about yourself the most then?
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I think like obviously my neurodiversity, I'm diagnosed now.
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So last time I was here, I was on the pathway to being diagnosed with ADHD.
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So I've done that now.
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I am diagnosed with combined type ADHD, and I'm on L vance, and the person who I was to the person that I am now, it is such a stark contrast.
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Like, I had I know I've already just said this, but I had no sense of self.
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I didn't know who I was, what I liked, what I needed, what I wanted.
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And like as soon as I got put on that L vanse, it's like something magically switched in my brain.
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Is that like the medication or something?
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Talk to me wrong.
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Sliceodexamphetamine, it's called, so it is a stimulant-based medication, but it if you've got ADHD, it doesn't do that to your brain.
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It has the opposite effect, doesn't it?
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Yeah, I remember reading about uh Ritalin and it has the opposite the opposite effects when when you're already quite do you know yeah what's the word for it?
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Stimulated, yeah.
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I suppose it has the opposite effect, doesn't it?
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It was like the Maida's touch to my life, honestly.
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It like it just changed everything.
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Within two weeks of being on it, I'd decorated my entire house from top to bottom.
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Yeah, that's something that I'd been procrastinating over for three years, just got it done.
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Yeah, like I don't procrastinate anymore, like I'm busy all the time.
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Before I used to be so agrophobic, I wouldn't go out of the house.
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Yeah, I remember, yeah.
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Yeah, like and I'm so busy now, I don't stop.
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I said to my partner yesterday, actually, like, can you remember before I started taking this medication?
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Never went anywhere.
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Be lucky if I went somewhere once a month and I was so like lost in motherhood and things, and like trying to establish who I was as an individual, as well as being a new mum.
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Yeah, it just it changed everything, and now I'm just busy all the time.
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I've got projects going on, I've started projects myself, and I would have never done that.
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I'd have never had the confidence to do that.
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I feel like I am a totally different person.
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You spoke last time about masking and mirroring.
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Do you feel more comfortable being yourself now than you did back then?
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Yeah.
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The thing is as well, because I'm both um ASD, HD.
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What are them?
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Autism.
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Okay.
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So what used to be referred to as Asperger's.
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Yeah.
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They don't call it that anymore because Dr.
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Asperger was Nazi eugenics doctor.
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Okay.
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And we didn't want, well, the community.
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Yeah, yeah, didn't want to be associated and talking about it.
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I didn't want their label to be named after a eugenics doctor.
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Yeah, I never knew that.
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So that's why they changed the levelling system.
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So level three would be profound, non-verbal, level one would be what used to be referred to as Asperges, and then you can have that diagnosed with learning differences or or a learning difficulty alongside of it.
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So I'm level one without a learning difficulty.
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I've got learning differences, but if I'm interested in something, I don't find it hard to learn about it.
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But I'm a very interest-based learner, yeah.
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But what happens is you start taking the ADHD medication, and the ADHD symptoms lower, and the autistic traits come out because you realise that actually having both of them might have been a blessing in disguise because the ADHD probably carried me through for all this time, somewhat functioning to the best of my ability.
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Like looking back now, it wasn't functioning, but so yeah, it's uh it's kind of finding a balance, and yeah.
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Feels like you've you've learned a lot about this then, John.
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We talk about that reflection of self and stuff.
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You you can see that there's a lot there in that.
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It's my special interest, and that's probably the most autistic thing, what you could do to be autism.
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Yeah, taking it back to the recovery of substances.
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You know, last time we spoke, you were still quite early on in that recovery journey.
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I suppose what has the the last few years taught you about staying well long term?
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So I was on methodone last time I was here.
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I can't quite remember how much I was on.
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I don't know if it was maybe 40 mil.
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I'm on buprenorphine now.
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So last summer I did the transition.
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You have to go like 48 hours without methadone and then take the buprenorphine.
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I thought I was gonna feel terrible, and I didn't actually.
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I was really surprised.
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So I went to the seaside on the day that I transitioned, like I was fine, it was nothing, yeah.
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And I think a lot of the time, like, fear is our biggest barrier.
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Yeah, why why did you why did you place so much fear into that transition from one medication to another?
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Because when you're an addict and you're withdrawing, it's totally different.
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So when you're in recovery and you go through withdrawals, so I was like, I was malnourished, I wasn't taking care of myself, wasn't sleeping, you know, probably a lot of vitamin deficits and things, and it is a living hell.
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But when you're in recovery and you're coming off controlled substances or addicted substances, it's totally different.
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You don't get the withdrawals the same way, and if you do, you can handle them a lot better.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Yeah, what what was the thing you noticed most about the differences between doing because obviously they're both some you know opiate substitute medication?
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What was the things you noticed the most about being on, I suppose, methadone and the differences to being on a buprenorphine?
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I feel a lot more clear headed, I feel more emotionally aware.
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I just feel like my brain's a lot sharper.
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Like before, I used to forget what I was saying halfway through a lot, and I'd be sat there like, what did I just say?
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and that was like everyone used to laugh at me for that.
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And um now I think like my thinking's a lot clearer emotionally.
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I'm progressing spiritually and emotionally and physically.
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Yeah.
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I feel like I'm just thriving.
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Yeah.
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So obviously methadone is a is a liquid, isn't it?
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And then buprenorphine is a tablet that you take subliminally.
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So methadone is a full opiate, yeah, and buprenorphine is half blocker and half opiate.
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Yeah.
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So you can't take any other opiates when you're on it because it won't affect you.
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Does it make you sick as well?
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If you were to take I mean, obviously you wouldn't know because you you haven't done this, but it I mean, what I read was that if you take opiates whilst you're on a buprenorphine, which as you said, you know, is part blocker, yeah, that you'd just be.
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I don't think it'd make you sick, but it just you wouldn't feel it.
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Okay, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So you'd just be wasting your money if you went out on bus.
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You've got a bag, wouldn't you, really?
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It has its downsides as well, because I was in hospital, I got a new kitten for Christmas.
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It was the weirdest thing what happened, she'd climbed my leg and scratched my leg, and I'd caught something incredibly rare called cat scratch disease, and I was really, really unwell like 10 days, and I I literally like at certain points I didn't think I was gonna make it, I was so poorly.
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I've never heard of cat, I've I've heard a cat scratch fever, but that's only because of the song, yeah.
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Oh, is it the same thing?
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The song, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Okay, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, I didn't know it was an actual thing.
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It is an actual thing.
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My kidneys started to shut down and everything.
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Jesus.
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But I couldn't have any painkillers because I was on the booparanorphane.
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Yeah.
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So I was gonna say, how did that tie into it?
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It has its blessings and its downsides as well, because if you did have a accident, you wouldn't be able to have any opiates, they'd have to give you other things.
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Did you experience do you know, being in the hospital, did you experience any stigma being on an opiate substitute medication from the the staff at all?
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Because I think that's the one thing that you often hear about when we look at feedback from people that are in services, how they feel like they're treated differently in hospital if they're on like an opiate substitute programme.
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When I had my little boy, I was the midwife.
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One particular midwife was very, very judgmental towards me.
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Yeah.
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And it caused a lot of trauma, like I I don't think I'll have any more children because of that.
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But I went to the GP the other week, just after the cat scratch disease thing, and she asked me what medications I was on, and I said booparinorphine.
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She thought I was on the painkiller patch, what they give people.
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Okay, and I said, No, I'm on the tablet.
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And she looks at me and went, Why?
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Why are you on that?
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And I said to her, I'm an addict in recovery.
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Oh wow.
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And she it it it took her back like she was really shocked.
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And that's good though, because I mean that that's a sign of progression, isn't it?
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Well, yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone should be facing the the stigma of it, but you're obviously in that position and they're looking at you like you don't look like someone who struggles with an addiction, and that's part of the stigma of addiction, isn't it?
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You know, what what what does a an addict in recovery look like?
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Well, exactly.
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So it's non-discriminatory, addiction can hit anyone from lawyers, solicitors, judges, nurses, doctors, it hits anyone, and I think that's the important thing about it.
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Like, you always go into something like using drugs thinking I'm gonna be the one that's different.
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I never thought I would end up a heroin addict.
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And like I think that you realise that you know we're we are all just the same.
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It doesn't matter what sort of like social status you have in the world or what job you have, we our bodies are all the same, we all have the same receptors in our brains, you know.
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Some of our brains work a bit differently if you know we're divergent and things, but you know, fundamentally we are all just people, yeah.
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And I don't know if that's an ADHD thing.
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Like it's not that I don't understand social hierarchy, I just don't respect it.
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Like I will I I'll I'll treat anybody the same way that I would treat anybody else.
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Do you know what I mean?
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I think that's a confidence thing as well, isn't it?
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Because I used to, I remember, I mean, thinking of the organisation in which we work for.
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Uh thinking about previous jobs when I heard the director was coming or somewhere, it was like, oh, you know, what do you know, put your best foot forward sort of thing.
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And you behave a certain way.
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But now I think when you you're confident in in not just in your role but in yourself, when you meet people that are, you know, in a those higher positions, shall we say, you kind of greet them on that level, yeah level field.
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And I think doing this podcast, especially, you know, I mean just speaking with people who were CEOs, MPs, and I've never felt the hierarchy there, but I think that's a confidence thing as well.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Or maybe it's maybe it is part of like some neurodiversity as well, do you know?
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I just yeah, I don't know.
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I just thought it was that it's not that I don't recognise it, it's just that it means nothing to me personally.
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And again, why why should it as well?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Why should it?
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Yeah.
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You mentioned obviously the differences between, like you said, bit of a bit of clearer thinking, you know, making that switch to buprenorphine.
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Have you feel physically more aware?
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I was gonna say, what other what other differences have you have you?
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I'm not like sluggish, I'm like, but that could be the elvance as well.
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Like I'm I'm yeah, I get up in the morning, and before it used to take me like three hours to wake up.
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ADHD brains take a lot longer to like wake up in the morning, but now I'm just like up, showered, sorted.
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My son's always at school on the street.
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There is a procrastination that you said that said about before.
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Yeah, it just took it all out.
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And time feels different.
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I thought about this this morning, like when before time felt different, like I was very time blind, but now like I I manage my time a lot h a lot more healthier, and I feel like time feels different when you're on the medication, which is a crazy concept, isn't it?
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That even something like time can feel different when your brain is firing on all cylinders the way that it's supposed to be.
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Talk me through the so in in the first podcast that we did, you talked about the ladder of progression with your substance misuse.
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Can you just for the for the sake of people maybe that hadn't heard the first episode, repeat what that ladder of progression was?
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Yeah, so I started the very stereotypical ladder, cannabis, amphetamines, ecstasy, that was a big one for me.
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I I I took that for a long time, part of the rave scene and the rave culture.
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Then it went on to I was never really a big coke person, like, and I I you know like that was never anything really that interests me.
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Do you think that's because obviously cocaine being a stimulant and you're someone with ADHD that it wouldn't necessarily have the same effects that that it does for for other people who aren't neurodivergent, maybe?
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:39.120
I think I've always had problems with my nose, like I've had rhinoplasty and septoplasty.
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.240
So I think just snorting things wasn't really for me.
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:45.519
But smoking it was, yeah.
00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:48.240
So that was like my biggest thing.
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:53.679
But even looking back now, like I used to take heroin and I would feel normal and functional.
00:16:54.000 --> 00:17:00.879
Other people around me had been nodding out, and I would be open about my business and the best version of myself.
00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:05.440
And even looking back now, that's like physiological of ADHD.
00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:13.039
The fact that those drugs did just give me what my brain was lacking enough to be able to function.
00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:15.519
I was really functional as a heroin addict.
00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:17.279
It was the You don't hear that often, do you?
00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:20.640
Hear like functional alcoholic, but it's a functional heroin addict.
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:22.880
The crack, totally different story.
00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:24.480
That took me to some very, very different.
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.440
So did you go from cocaine to heroin to crack?
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:30.960
I went crack and then took the heroin to come down.
00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:31.519
Yeah.
00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:34.319
And yeah, it kind of just went on from there.
00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:34.720
Okay.
00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:39.200
At my worst, eventually at the end, I was injecting both at the same time.
00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:40.000
Yeah.
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:44.240
And then obviously, to go to methodone and then buin off, and I suppose you couldn't.
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:45.759
I was always on methodone.
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:46.079
Okay.
00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:48.640
It's just that I used to use it as a lifeline.
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:49.039
Yeah.
00:17:49.359 --> 00:18:00.240
I I wasn't interested in recovery, it was just something that I was on to stop the withdrawals, but I would I was never really fully in and serious about it.
00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:07.359
Just talk me through that then, because as someone said before, that they would take the methadone and that would level them out.
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:14.960
That would get rid of the withdrawal, and then they would take heroin on top of the methadone because then that's all high.
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:15.440
Yeah.
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:16.079
Is that right?
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:16.640
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:28.799
That's interesting, that, because then you sometimes wonder, don't you, about how methadone programs work if they're being utilized in the way that they should be utilised, or if it's just a case of get rid of the withdrawal, and now everything that I use on top of that is a bonus.
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:33.119
Yeah, a lot of people I've and I've seen this a lot as well, and I'm not knocking methadone in any way.
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:33.920
No, no, no, I get that.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:37.039
They all serve the purpose and it saves lives.
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:50.799
So, but yeah, I I've noticed the pattern that people get on methadone and then end up smoking crack because they're not withdrawing from the opiates anymore, so they have to spare money and end up smoking a bag load of crack.
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:56.799
So to me, I'm gonna I'm gonna challenge you a little bit about your recovery status then, because you consider yourself as someone in recovery.
00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:06.720
I remember a little while ago um there was a a conversation that we had regarding a comment made by one of my volunteers that was supporting about your recovery status.
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:13.839
Because some people would say that you're not in recovery because you're still on opiate substitute medication.
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:19.599
People in NA would say that I'm not in recovery according to the 12-step programme.
00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:20.240
Yeah.
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:30.079
I think that I have custody of my son, we have a car, we have a house, and we have it fully furnished.
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:38.480
I've made big girl purchases, I bought a brand new fridge freezer, washing machine, mattresses, just spent£300 on new mattresses.
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:42.319
Like I am rebuilding all of my family ties, my connections.
00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:47.039
I've got my mum's trust back again, my sister's trust back again.
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:49.920
I've rebuilt all my family connections.
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:56.319
I take care of myself, I'm mentally well, I'm out in the community helping other people.
00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:57.359
Make a difference, yeah.
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:03.680
Yeah, I've started my own like drop-in and things like that at a community centre, local tall.
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:10.319
Like, I think that I'm clean as hell compared to what I was in 2019.
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:26.240
And I think the interesting part about that is that you could argue that you're probably living a more recovery recovery-led life, still on still on buprenorphine, still on opious substitute medication, yeah, than what some people could be who are absent of all those.
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:27.599
Yeah, definitely.
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:41.440
I think people get complacent sometimes, and it's a really fine balance in recovery between recovery consuming your life, like going to fellowship and that becoming your life.
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:56.559
Everyday meetings, if you can't get to a meeting, I've seen people who, if they can't get to a meeting, they're falling apart, they're going away, and they're on the phone searching for meetings of of where they're going away to because they can't go that one day without that meeting.
00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.640
And I think that can be just as unhealthy and just as much of an addiction.
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:02.480
Addicted to recovery, yeah.
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:05.119
And maybe it's a misunderstanding of what recovery actually is.
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:07.200
You've got to find a balance, haven't you?
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:10.400
So I feel I mean, I'm I'm not knocking the NA programme.
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:22.559
Of course not, no, but so it was this the disease of addiction was referred to as an allergy, and you have to understand the history of psychology to understand where all those comparisons came from.
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:24.160
Is this one of your special interests?
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:30.000
Yeah, like modern-day psychology, it's only like maybe 50, 60, 70 years old.
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:30.319
Yeah.
00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:31.680
It's not that's nothing.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:32.720
Think about it.
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:35.440
You've got grandparents who are older than that, you know, yeah.
00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:48.559
Yeah, and like our understanding of the brain and things back then, that was genius to say that the disease that the disease of addiction is an allergy, you have an allergy.
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:50.319
That was genius then.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:59.680
But what it was actually doing was pulling on what they knew at the time, yeah, and we've progressed, and we understand our brain.
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:07.599
A lot more now, and we understand the physiological differences in an addict's brain, and we know it's not an allergy.
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:09.119
Do you know what I mean?
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:11.599
And like we prog we progress, don't we?
00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:18.160
And yeah, I just think like the NA model could do with a little bit of a rejig.
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:25.599
Yeah, I suppose, like you said, do you know I mean you you're living life in a in a way that very much does sound like you are in recovery.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:29.440
Do you know you mentioned that uh meeting with the was it a GP with a nurse?
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:34.079
And you know, they're looking at you like, oh, you don't look like an addict.
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:34.559
Do you know?
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:42.000
So that that element of it is is you know, in terms of obviously not just challenging the stigma, but living a recovery-led life is very much there.
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:45.359
And you mentioned there about the drop-ins that you do.
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:48.799
Do you know you you've started at volunteering at a community centre?
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.799
What made you want to take that step into helping other people?
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:55.039
I I've always wanted to do it.
00:22:55.599 --> 00:23:02.319
So obviously being involved with Renew and like starting to volunteer and things.
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:11.200
I just felt like my knowledge and my passion wasn't wasted if I could help just one person.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:16.880
And I always think like those 17 years wouldn't be wasted if I could just help one person.
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:20.799
Yeah, if you can draw on those experiences and and you know, give a bit of advice.
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:22.480
And I think I've done that.
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:26.319
Um, like it's quite controversial how I run my drop in.
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:31.839
I have people volunteer for me who are at varying stages in recovery.
00:23:32.079 --> 00:24:03.039
I have a lady who volunteers for me who is only nine weeks clean off of drugs and still sort of like battling with alcohol, but I don't think that she has any less insight to offer than somebody who's been in recovery for nine years, like we ought you know, and she could go to to my dropping and sit and talk to somebody who's only in the same position, and she would have valuable insight.
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:15.680
And I don't think that just because you've only been in recovery a short time, it doesn't mean that you can't help other people and share your experiences, and I think it all reduces stigma.
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:16.000
Yeah.
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:16.880
Do you know what I mean?
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:18.640
I think there's something about it as well.
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:34.960
Like, if I have someone volunteering who's 10 years in recovery, I feel like that 10 years of sobriety has removed them so far from you know what it was actually like that in a way maybe they've somehow forgot about it.
00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:35.279
Yeah.
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:47.200
And I think talking to guests on this podcast, you know, when we start talking about their time as you know in addiction and they have to draw back on experiences from 20 years ago, you can almost see it's quite challenging for them to think that far back.
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:57.599
Whereas someone who is doing has a has a shorter amount of time of sobriety can still connect to that person because that was them only six months ago.
00:24:57.759 --> 00:24:58.079
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:05.039
Do you know so it's easier to connect in that sense because the time hasn't don't they've probably learnt a lot in those 10 years, 20 years of recovery.
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:08.079
Yeah, but you're healing from that trauma, aren't you, as well?
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:12.079
And trauma can do a lot to your body physically, can't it?
00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:13.759
And I think it gives purpose as well.
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:17.200
Do you know you talk about that person then with you know nine weeks clean time?
00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:20.400
It could be instrumental to their recovery, is giving them purpose.
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:21.119
Yeah, that's true.
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:24.880
To take that away from them and say, sorry, you can't you can't volunteer because you're only nine weeks.
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:26.799
Well, you're removing that purpose from them.
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:27.039
Yeah.
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:31.119
And therefore they may just go back into you know substance misuse habits anyway.
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:36.480
So there's something very relevant about you know, meeting people with where they're at as well.
00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:39.519
That's what I was just gonna say, and that's my favourite motto.
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:41.839
I'll I want to meet people where they're at.
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:49.920
That's something that the Lighthouse project did with me, and it's really important to me that we don't try and shame people.
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:55.759
Like, I want them to know that they're loved and they're accepted for exactly who they are.
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:56.960
Do you know what I mean?
00:25:57.039 --> 00:25:59.279
And I'm here for you through your growth.
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:11.519
Like, we all grow as human beings spiritually, emotionally, and like, yeah, I think that's really important to reduce stigma and shame around addiction and things.
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:12.880
Do you know what I mean?
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:18.240
Like, if you can't love yourself, I will love you right as you are right now, yeah.
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:26.240
While you're learning to love yourself, yeah, it's important for who you are, and again, as you said, where where you're where you're at.
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:33.599
So the community centre in which you're volunteering at, am I writing that you was introduced to it through the Rat project, the Mischief of Rats project?
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:43.359
Tell me a little bit about your work on the Mischief of Rats project, and because I think that was very much a key part of sort of your recovery over the last couple of years, sort of thing.
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:46.480
That's where I like really gained my confidence and things.
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:58.319
So filming a documentary about my recovery with Robbie, the producer of the podcast, and he followed me around for near enough two years.
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:07.920
Yeah, it was weird, like every kind of big life event that I had going on, there was Robbie at the back with the camera, like just a lingering spirit sort of thing.
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:10.160
It was nice as well, though.
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:14.400
Like it was there when I got diagnosed with ADHD and things like that.
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:27.920
But I think through that it led me to an opportunity to help Andy P design a rat for the Believe in People podcast, which is this little badge that you've got there.
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:37.680
So we did Mosaic, and we were the only ones who did Mosaic out of any of the other because it was a tribute to the whole local music scene, wasn't it?
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:38.880
What was the band called?
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:40.400
Yeah, Mick Ronson, what was the band called?
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:41.359
Spiders from Mars?
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:42.400
Spiders from Mars.
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:44.960
Yeah, Spiders from Mars or David Bow uh David Bowie.
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:47.119
What's the one the band in Hull?
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:48.160
What was that called?
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:49.920
I keep thinking Boomtown Rats.
00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:51.759
It's definitely not Boomtown Rats, is it?
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:53.599
I can't think.
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:57.680
See, that's where that's where it's it's but it was based on a local music band, wasn't it?
00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:00.319
Mick Ronson, it was it was based on Mick Ronson.
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:09.200
So he was the guitarist for Bowie, but it was it's also you know, he ripped albums with Lou Reed, Bob Dylan, like a lot of really huge albums.
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:11.119
Local music legend in Hull, isn't it?
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:16.160
So it was nice to put the the trail the the rap trail on for him, and I think obviously been involved in that.
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:18.640
And didn't you I met his sister, Maggie?
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:20.000
Yeah, Maggie, yeah.
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:26.240
We we've struck up a friendship like we're friends to this day, we speak regularly, which is amazing.
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:33.279
And she's there telling you all these amazing stories about like David Bowie and talking about him like he's her brother.
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:35.680
Well, I think he was pretty much family to him.
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.319
There was there was very there was a very close-knit group, yeah.
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:46.160
It's amazing to it, you know, and she just tells these stories so off-cuff, and you're like there in our thinking, are we really talking about these people?
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:47.680
Like, it's amazing.
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:49.359
So, yeah.
00:28:49.680 --> 00:29:07.599
I've worked with a lady called Jill Adams, who is comedian Lucy Beaumont's mum from Hull, and she's an amazing lady, she's a writer, and she comes up to the community centre, and we're doing a creative writing project for the community centre's 40th birthday.
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:08.480
That's nice, yeah.
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:12.799
Yeah, so loads going on, but yeah, I I love it.
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:16.079
I I love helping people, like I get to do a bit of everything.
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:59.839
I'm working with autistic adults who just need some friendship groups and confidence out in the community, right through to addicts from veterans all the way through anybody vulnerable, and it's a blessing that I get to meet these people and be a part of their journey, and they're all beautiful souls, and when you really kind of start looking at people as people and as not of as a label, yeah, you realise that you know these are beautiful, kind hearts that have just got a little bit lost along the way, and like can can I ask?
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:00.799
I'm just gonna jump in.
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:11.200
How did it feel the first time that you realised that you've you've gone from you know, you're no longer the person receiving help, but now you're the person that's offering it.
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:24.480
And because you've got such diverse experience, you know, from addiction to neurodiversity, the amount of people that you can help, I suppose how did that feel when you first realised, oh I'm I'm on the other side of this fence now, sort of thing.
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:49.279
It was when I'm I'm like I it was when I was working with the police, and I thought to myself, like, wow, the only interactions that I'd ever had with the police was me going to prison, me being arrested, having my liberty removed, like, you know, quite a bit of unfairness at times, and yeah, and then that was a really big like realisation for me.
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:51.759
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:59.440
And I think I'm so far removed now from that person that I was, like, I don't even know where she is anymore.
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:05.599
That's interesting as well, because like I say, for us it doesn't feel like it has been that long as well.
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:06.960
It's been a lifetime to me.
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:12.720
Sorry, I don't know if you already said this today, but how long have you been in do you know been free from illicit substances then?
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:14.559
So I was six years at Christmas.
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:14.880
Okay.
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:20.160
I got my new tattoo, it's an infinity sign with two birds and my little boy's name.
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:26.000
Did you ever think six years would have been possible though when you was in the the trenches of that 17 years of addiction?
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:29.680
No, no, and I didn't want to stop, I had nothing to stop for.
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.359
I genuinely thought I was gonna die an addict.
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:44.720
I know it might sound a bit brutal to like say, but I genuinely did think that I didn't care about the damage that I did to my body, and now I wish that I had cared a little bit more.
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:57.920
You know, when you look at my hands, you can see like the discoloration of the skin, and like I have vascular problems with in my lower legs and things like that, and I just wish that I'd have taken care of myself a bit better.
00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:02.720
I'm still not at a point where I can go out wearing a dress in summer and have my legs out.
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:23.759
So, I mean, even though I say that I'm working on shame and stigma and trying to help eliminate it within society, at the same time, I still live with a lot of shame and stigma by not wanting to wear dresses and have people ask me how did that happen to your leg or do you know what I mean?
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:25.759
Yeah, but I think it's a process, isn't it?
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:30.319
Just because you know, you you said then, you know, you never you thought you was gonna die an addict.
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:32.799
Sorry, saying you don't feel like you're ever gonna be able to do that now.
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:36.079
I wanted to die as an addict, like that was the end goal.
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:41.839
I was so depressed, I was so suicidal, and like I just didn't care.
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:45.920
I had no understanding of myself, I didn't know why I was the way that I was.
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:55.119
I just kind of put it down as some moral feeling and understanding myself and the way that my brain works, it was just a game changer.
00:32:55.440 --> 00:33:26.240
And I think everybody in recovery who comes to somewhere like Renew should be explained the neuroscience behind addiction at a level that is understandable because I understand we all have different learning capabilities, but if it could be condensed and simplified, I also strongly believe that we should be screening ADHD in addicts coming into services looking to gain recovery because the statistics speak for themselves.
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:41.920
They did study on an American prison American prison system, and it was an astronomical high amount of male American inmates were all ADHD or neurodivergent in some way, they just didn't know it.
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:44.240
I think that's so important to discuss.
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:45.440
Do you know what I mean?
00:33:45.759 --> 00:34:02.559
There's something going on, our brains aren't producing the chemicals, our decision-making process isn't quite there, and you know, we don't always make the right choices, and sometimes it it might be a choice to begin with, but it very quickly changes.
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:07.680
Like people say, Oh, you know, there's one word, no, just don't take the drugs in the first place.
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.639
But life's not that black and white and perfect, is it?
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:30.239
We take the drugs, what we don't anticipate is the physiological chemical changes in our brains, what that drug is gonna create, to the point that you know, some people will never fully recover the brains from addiction, you know, and that isn't a choice.
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:30.480
No.
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:31.679
That is the disease.
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:43.119
I read an article recently and that it said something about ADHD will actually be on the rise because of the way that you know, particularly young children consume media now.
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:59.679
And I think like, do you know, you watch things I mean it will look at our own if we look at our own viewing habits, we we scroll for our phones, we watch a 30-second to 90-second funny video or a bit of an information piece, you know, then we move on to the next thing and the next thing.
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:12.000
And that's become normal for us, but our brains have developed in a way that we can still focus, or not everybody by any means, but can still focus on long form entertainment movies, etc.
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:16.639
But the same with the younger generation because that's all they know is short form content.
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:19.039
Like even some of the TV shows that the kids might watch.
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:23.360
I think an episode of Peppa Pig is like five minutes before it moves on to the next you know story.
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:34.239
Well, the science behind it as well, like influences the way that they speak on camera, like there is a science behind the way that you introduce content that grasp people's attention.
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:38.719
If you don't grasp in the first couple of seconds, then it's it's you just move on to the next thing, don't you?
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:40.960
Then I think is that ADHD as well.
00:35:41.360 --> 00:36:01.760
I've you know other people that do kind of flag it up and recognise it, people that are already neurodivergent, and like certain people talk at a certain speed that I find it really easy to listen to, normally like quite fast, like a lot of information in a short amount of time, yeah, and that suits my brain.
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:25.920
So, you know, I you could argue that maybe they're interising ADHD, you know, the kids that are kind of stuck to tablets and short short information videos and things could already be neurodivergent, and that's why that's their preferred form of so either than to be something that's causing it, it's just kind of how they already are, but they're just adapting to it already anyway.
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.519
That's an interesting furry, isn't it?
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:32.719
I learn a lot off like those short videos, like short, sharp bursts of information.
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:33.119
Yeah.
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:35.920
And I remember things like that easier as well, yeah.
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:38.639
Which is a learning difference in itself, isn't it, in a way?
00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:39.920
Absolutely, yeah, yeah.
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:45.440
I mean, I just want to go back to that that idea of purpose and and you know with the volunteering that you're doing.
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:54.239
Because what role does purpose with things like volunteering motherhood and and helping others play in your recovery today?
00:36:54.480 --> 00:37:00.400
Is there an extra pressure with you know in supporting people that you now have to kind of hold yourself to a higher standard?
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:03.840
And I think in a weird way, relapse is possible for everyone.
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:08.800
But talking to you today, I feel like relapse is so far removed from where you could possibly be.
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:13.360
But when you're supporting people, is there almost like an added responsibility of like right now?
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:17.280
I have to be the best version of myself in order to support others, yeah.
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:21.119
But that's an autistic trait, it's that kind of all or nothing.
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:28.400
So I was already, I think after I did the last podcast, I was I had it that in my mindset then that right, I've put this out into the public now.
00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:30.559
Yeah, I can't be a hypocrite.
00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:32.239
Like, there's nothing worse.
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:36.320
Like, I've got to be authentic, I've got to be honest, I've got to be me.
00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:48.400
Yeah, and before I used to mask myself and try and shrink myself down to make myself more palatable, but well-be of women seldom make history, and that's true, isn't it?
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:54.400
I was just thinking of that quote before you said it when you said the word palatable, but yeah, that's very, very true, yeah.
00:37:54.639 --> 00:37:58.639
Yeah, and my other favourite saying is depression can't hit a moving target.
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:10.559
So keeping busy, yeah, structure, having structure in your days, like volunteering, helping other people, it's all a really important part of recovery.
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:28.800
And you know, we give back what we learn, yeah, and that's the beautiful thing about recovery, and it's so important to build community and friendship groups, and like that's that's what I really wanted the community centre project to be, the warm space.
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:37.280
For example, I won't like divulge anyone's personal information, but we have a man there who is living in a shared house, HMO.
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:41.519
Yeah, there's at least two drug dealers in that very same HMO where he lives.
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:44.000
There was no glass in the front window when I went to go.
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:46.159
I spoke to him a few weeks ago when I was there, yeah.
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:47.039
I know who you mean.
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:48.719
It's 15 weeks clean.
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:50.000
Yeah.
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:57.440
I was funny because I saw him last week when I went, and I thought, he looks a lot better than when I saw him a month or so ago.
00:38:57.679 --> 00:39:04.880
Yeah, so he's done that in that environment, all through coming out and creating his own community.
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:15.440
So he started coming to the warm space, then he started coming to other events like gaming afternoon on a Wednesday with the Goodwin and things like that, because we have other agencies coming.
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:18.079
And yeah, it is absolutely thriving.
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:26.239
And that's like one of my success stories, and it's so beautiful to see he's rebuilding relationships with his family, and yeah.
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:34.320
Well, I've said I've said this so many times on this podcast, but it is probably one of the most important things that I ever heard when doing this this series and working in this field.
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:38.480
And it's um the opposite of addiction isn't sobriety, it's connection.
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:42.800
And I think when you hear stories like that, he's connected himself to his community.
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:43.840
So that was Dr.
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:53.039
Gabar Mateo once it who said that, which I think is uh amazing, like the you know, the way that he Look at your brain just pulling up names and things like that.
00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:54.320
I couldn't tell you where that quote came from.
00:39:54.559 --> 00:40:01.360
That's ADHD though, you're like a sleeper cell until someone says something that activates you all this information.
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:04.400
And then all of a sudden your head's like, Oh, I can interject in this.
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:05.920
Yeah, I know I know about this one.
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:19.840
Yeah, it's amazing, and the the work that he's done to kind of destigmatise and and understand addiction is amazing, and I think he's a lead in in empathy and understanding.
00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:23.119
And it's true, addiction is isolating.
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:53.519
You're always on the outskirts of society, either with criminality, prostitution, breaking criminality is part of it because I'm gonna talk about politics a little bit here, which I don't normally do, but with the criminalization of addiction, basically, which it is any addict who gets stopped by the police ten times, eight times out of those ten, maybe less or more, that gonna have drugs on 'em.
00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:57.360
It's easy pickings, it's easy to arrest statistics.
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:00.960
I really think that fundamentally something needs to change.
00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:06.320
We need to decriminalize addiction, basically.
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:07.599
And I'm not saying legalise.
00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:09.519
That's where people get confused, doesn't it?
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:10.960
I saw the stuff with the Green Party.
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:17.199
It's like they want to make all the drugs legal, and it's like, no, there's a difference between decriminalisation and legalisation.
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:24.639
So we're not talking about being able to go to a corner shop where you can buy your alcohol from and get a ten-pound bag of heroin.
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:33.679
We're talking about models like Portugal, where drug deaths have plummeted, and so has criminal activity and things like that.
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:36.880
Like, I think it's really important.
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:47.760
Like, you know, if you research the history and where the war on drugs came from originally, and like it it it you know, it's it's not working and it never did work.
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:50.320
I do think we have culturally made a change.
00:41:50.400 --> 00:42:01.519
So if I think of my time working in substance misuse services now and and just up just over a decade of experience in this field now, when I first started working here, it was very much for those on court orders.
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:06.480
Now the the criminal justice arm of our service is a is a very small part.
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:06.639
Yeah.
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:15.280
I think based on a team of a hundred plus staff years ago, now we're on like I think there's like six six to ten criminal justice workers in our service.
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:15.599
Yeah.
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:16.000
Do you know?
00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:21.360
And that's covering you know the the prison uh link worker, yeah, uh the criminal justice works in the community.
00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:22.880
It's a very small arm of it.
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:26.960
Yeah, well it don't work, you're never gonna be like it's forced compliance.
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:27.440
Yeah.
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:32.159
And we we don't get the we don't get the amount of court orders through the through the doors that we used to.
00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:36.719
Yeah, it's not gonna work for long-term recovery because it's forced compliance.
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:39.599
Yeah, like everyone, you know, rock bottom moments.
00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:41.119
I said this last time I was on here.
00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:42.960
I never had a rock bottom moment.
00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:44.880
I had a clarity moment, yeah.
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:50.719
I had a come to moment, and I think that everybody will get that eventually.
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:53.360
It's just whether they survive long enough to get it.
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:54.639
Do you know what I mean?
00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:55.440
Absolutely.
00:42:55.679 --> 00:43:00.400
Just just real I suppose briefly, I want to talk about being a woman in recovery.
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:12.159
You talked about the interactions with the police, you talk about the you know the the the stigma in which they face what do you think some of the challenges are that that women face in recovery that that men don't don't experience?
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:20.480
So the stigma around childbirth as well and things, around having children, when there's a history of addiction.
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:31.679
Obviously, I think that women are more vulnerable and susceptible to certain things like the survival sex industry, things like that.
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:33.599
There's a lot of dangers.
00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:37.039
Just to touch on that, the survival sex industry.
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:40.559
That's interesting because it's not using the term prostitution.
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:42.159
Because it's not, there's a difference.
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:43.119
Tell me the difference.00:43:43.360 --> 00:44:08.079
So you can get women who will go on websites like OF or work in parlors who will buy the houses and have nice cars and do it for for the right reasons, and then you get women who have Nothing but the clothes on the back who were doing it merely as a tool to survive, and that's the difference.00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:10.239
It's not a choice anymore.00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:12.320
Is that a widely known term then?00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:13.920
The survival sex industry.00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:19.119
It's changing, yeah, yeah, through work with different women's characters.00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:20.639
My first time I've heard it.00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:22.880
Now, when you said it, I knew the differences immediately.00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:23.360
Yeah.00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:28.960
I've just not heard it being said in that way, which I thought made it quite poignant and interesting.00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:30.320
But yeah, very very much so.00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:35.440
Yeah, it's kind of a new term, and but I think it's poignant, like 100%, yeah.00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:38.239
Well, as soon as you said it, like my mind went ba boom, there it is.00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:38.480
Yeah.00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:39.920
That's very, very interesting.00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:42.079
Because it is, of course, it's completely different.00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:46.000
And there's all the dangers and stigmas that come with that as well, do you know?00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:46.480
Yeah.00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:49.679
And again, the criminality aspect of it.00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:55.519
Yeah, I think like but I think men have a just as hard a time of it.00:44:55.760 --> 00:45:00.320
Like, I don't look at women and think, oh, women have a harder time in addiction than men do.00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:10.880
I think that men are left with a lot, like some women can get away with, you know, making their money in ways that aren't gonna get them arrested.00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:12.719
Men don't really have that option.00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:22.159
And even down to general resourcing, I think there's a lot more women's shelters for women who are maybe homeless with you know with an addiction problem.00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:22.719
Yeah.00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:24.480
Uh than there is for for a man.00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:24.800
Yeah.00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:29.599
And it's interesting as a woman you've recognised that's there's not a lot of sympathy for men in addiction, is there?00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:29.920
Nah.00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:32.320
It's kind of just like, oh well, do you know what I mean?00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:33.519
How did you end up there?00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:33.840
Do you know?00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:36.719
And it goes back to that you said about the whole element of choice as well.00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:40.000
And they're overlooked as well, like homeless men are overlooked.00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:43.920
Like, you know, you'll see people talking about homeless women.00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:48.800
I saw a woman who was homeless and it absolutely broke my heart, sat in the rain.00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:52.639
But you never really hear people saying that about men, do you?00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:56.960
But like that was the beauty of the dropping that I started running.00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:08.719
I was able to go to these people sat on the street and say, Come on Friday, we'll feed you, I've got some clothes, giving out sleeping bags, like just giving them some love.00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:09.840
Do you know what I mean?00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:11.360
Absolutely.00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:24.000
If someone's listening to right someone's listening right now, I suppose, and is where you were a few years ago, what would you want them to know about what recovery can become?00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:35.679
I don't know if I said this last time, but your worst day in recovery is nothing compared to your worst day in addiction.00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:39.519
It is always gonna be easier and better.00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:44.320
Just the freedom, like not having to wake up feeling ill.00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:53.280
The last thing that you think about is drugs on a night, the first thing you think about is drugs in a morning, the freedom from that creativity.00:46:53.519 --> 00:47:00.639
A lot of people start taking drugs because they think that it makes them more creative, but it removes that creativity as well.00:47:01.280 --> 00:47:12.400
And just think like learning and growing as an individual, like we're all here put on this earth to evolve, like emotionally, spiritually, and physically.00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:17.440
And I think that that's I feel like that's what I've done.00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:18.480
I've evolved.00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:19.199
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:20.639
I mean, I can see it.00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:29.039
The first question that I asked was was do you know the difference between Nadine of 2023 to the Nadine that I'm speaking to now?00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:30.159
I can see the growth.00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:32.800
I was a shadow of who I am now.00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:37.760
I I was I was vanilla, I was I was just a blank canvas.00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:38.320
Yeah, yeah.00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:42.559
You found identity, it's probably what and it's what we've discussed, isn't it?00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:44.880
I've got an amazing friendship group.00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:49.920
I'm surrounded by positive people, and I chose that.00:47:50.239 --> 00:48:06.079
Like I have created my life brick by brick, yeah, and I feel like everything that I have in my life now, I have deliberately chosen and manifested and created.00:48:06.639 --> 00:48:07.519
Do you know what I mean?00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:08.800
And I'm proud of it.00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:09.920
I'm glad I'm glad.00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:12.559
I'm proud of me, and I'm proud of the life that I've got now.00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:13.760
Well, I'm proud of you.00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:16.320
I know Robbie, the producer of this series, is very proud of you.00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:23.679
And to be fair, like you say, as the as the ghost of sort of, you know, Nadine's past sort of lingering over your shoulders.00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:43.599
You've done this documentary, and uh, I mean, I'm interested to see because uh by by all accounts, you're coming towards I mean, we spoke about bupenorphine, you're very much coming towards the end of that journey now with the plan to soon be free from bupenorphine as well, which as far as the the documentary goes that you're making will kind of be the last piece, won't it, in in in that journey.00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:47.199
So I'm I'm really and I've I've seen nothing of this, I've not seen any of the footage.00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:51.119
I know he's been working on it in the background for the past couple of years, so I'm really interested to see it.00:48:51.199 --> 00:49:05.440
And I think when we talk about the difference of Nadine back then and Nadine now, it'll be very interesting to see because it's been a long-form documentary, we will genuinely see the difference from where you start at the beginning of that documentary to where you finish.00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:07.599
Yeah, and and I'm really excited about that as well.00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:33.280
I got baptized, I started going to a church um called River City in Hull, and even though I can't make it a lot now, like I still go, they have a rehab called the Inside Out Rehab, which is a 12-step programme, and I go and guest speak there and things like that, and like that was important, that was an important part of my progression and process, like learning to trust people again.00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:51.920
Yeah, like sometimes the interactions that you have as an addict can leave you f leave a bit of taste in your mouth, yeah, and like learning that there are good people out there that just want to help because and learning to trust people again and building that sense of community and spirituality.00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:56.960
I think we all go through a all addicts in recovery go through a spiritual journey.00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:03.039
Absolutely, and and one that the the on the topic of spirituality, like I found it interesting that you're someone who has been baptised.00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:05.519
You are, I mean, is it Christian?00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:08.320
Do would you consider yourself to be like a a Christian?00:50:09.199 --> 00:50:10.960
You take what you need from it, I'm guessing.00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:11.440
Yeah.00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:27.280
But it's interesting to have that, but then It played a large role in my life now, but I don't necessarily know if I I don't want to kind of upset anyone by saying it but.00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:28.079
Don't worry.00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:39.119
Yeah, I don't know if I kind of like believe um I I've I've I've read too much and I've kind of educated myself out of that, yeah.00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:42.079
So you've kind of steered towards that direction and then pivoted away.00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:43.840
I'm I'm a trippy dippy head.00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:54.719
Well, I was gonna say it was just the interest in the correlation between like when you said about not following the 12-step programme that is very much rooted in a spirituality and Christianity, but then to have done the the the baptism element of it as well.00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:59.360
Then it was like almost two very much similar things, but quite far away from each other.00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:03.360
If I handed my day over to God, it'd be an absolute shit shot.00:51:03.920 --> 00:51:09.920
I am in charge of my destiny, I have built my life up to what it is now.00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:15.119
Yeah, I'm not gonna give every accolade that I have over to God.00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:15.599
Yeah, yeah.00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:17.840
No, that's that's you that's done that, yeah.00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:35.119
A lot of hard work did this, a lot of therapy did this, and that and and and you know, belief and spirituality, it can be a cherry on top, but I think it's really important that we don't diminish our own role in in who we are now and our growth and evolution.00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:36.000
You know what I mean?00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:37.280
100%, yeah.00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:40.400
Nadine, thank you so much for for joining me on Believing People.00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:43.840
As you know, we like to finish the podcast with a series of questions.00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:48.559
And I've got a couple of your answers from the last time you did this, also I'm interested to see if they're they're still the same.00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:51.199
But my first question is, what is your favourite word?00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:53.199
My favourite word.00:51:58.239 --> 00:52:00.159
It's not a word, but it's a phrase.00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:01.760
I always say, Do you know what I mean?00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:02.480
You know what I mean.00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:10.079
And I think it's my brain buffering because I'm I've got the thing is sometimes you that that ADHD element of speaking faster than what your brain's going.00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:12.320
You're worried if you have everything you've said actually made sense.00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:12.559
Yeah.00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:14.719
So you have to finish because I I do that alone.00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:20.000
And I think it's a thing of being misperceived a lot of the time.00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:23.440
I want to know that people understand what I'm saying.00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:28.159
I don't want any misconceptions or yeah, like so.00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:30.000
Last time you said the word discombobulate.00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:30.559
So quite a bit.00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:33.519
I was just gonna say that again because I still love that word.00:52:33.760 --> 00:52:35.599
I mean it is a great word, isn't it?00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:36.159
It is.00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:38.800
It means to be uneasy in one's surroundings.00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:39.760
Oh, there you go.00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:48.480
Least favourite word I don't think I've got one really.00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:51.199
I'm hyperlexic, I love our words.00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:52.559
Last time it was moist.00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:55.920
Yeah, that's that is a bit of a cringe word, isn't it?00:52:56.239 --> 00:52:57.760
I think cringe is a cringe word.00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:00.239
Yeah, cringe, even cringe is a cringy word.00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:02.400
Tell me something that excites you.00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:07.360
Seeing the light come back on in other people's eyes.00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:08.320
Nice.00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:11.920
Tell me something that bores you or drains your energy.00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:18.239
People that that that take your energy.00:53:18.400 --> 00:53:22.000
You know, some sometimes you meet an Eeyore, I call them Eeyores.00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:23.199
Do you know what I mean?00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:26.320
When in the pool then they just come in and it's like, hey mate, how are you doing?00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:34.079
Oh not good, it's like always having a good time until you said And they're emotional vampires, some people uh just take your energy.00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:41.920
I've got a friend like that, I love him dearly, but you know when he comes in the room because all the joy is just sapped out of it, sort of yeah, completely.00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:43.920
What sound or noise do you love?00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:45.679
My canaries.00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:46.239
Cute.00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:50.880
Yeah, they sing when it's sunny and they love my music.00:53:51.039 --> 00:53:55.760
So I've got canaries that sing to drum and bass, they sing to rap, like, and it's hilarious.00:53:57.280 --> 00:54:01.840
No, they just sing and I love it when you see the little birds that just bot their head to music.00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:07.039
I've got one little canary who likes to rap and he adds like little ad libs in.00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:10.320
Well yeah, honestly, and it sounds like he's doing it on purpose.00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:10.880
It's so cool.00:54:11.599 --> 00:54:13.119
What sound annoys do you hear?00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:22.159
Um you know when kids are walking through supermarkets and there's the shiny floors and the scuff the feet across them.00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:23.760
Yeah, I had that last night actually.00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:26.239
Someone did it and I went right through it.00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:30.400
My little boy does it on purpose and I'm like, because he knows he knows it annoys you.00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:32.480
When do you feel most like yourself?00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:36.639
When I'm volunteering, helping other people.00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:39.280
What profession would you like to attempt?00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:51.679
I don't know, because I would love to be a recovery worker, but at the same time I would really love to work with artistic people as well.00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:55.280
People need to understand themselves, that's the most important thing.00:54:55.519 --> 00:55:06.960
And if you never develop any kind of basic understanding of yourself, how are you gonna emotionally progress if you can't recognise the very things that are holding you back?00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:08.000
Do you know what I mean?00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:08.960
100%, yeah.00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:10.960
What profession would you not like to do?00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:16.320
Police, prison, office, anything like that.00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:21.519
And lastly, if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the Paley gates?00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:29.599
I don't think it's particularly God that I would like to hear from, but I would love to hear from my ancestors, my my grandmother.00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:34.559
I lost my dog in recovery, and that was one of the hardest things that I've ever dealt with.00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:35.920
But I got through it.00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:42.480
I didn't, you know, that was I always knew that was going to be one of the hardest days of my life, losing my precious baby.00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:45.840
And he died at Halloween, the one just gone.00:55:46.000 --> 00:56:23.920
I've got really into meditation and uh like sort of experimenting with like astral projection and things like that, and I've got into some really deep meditative states where I felt like my myself ascending spiritually, and I always see my dog playing happily, and and a really beautiful thing that I learnt in grief was the concept of time is human, only we con have a concept of time, and in the spirit realm or in space, even there is no concept of time.00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:35.760
So you think that your dog or whatever, or whoever you loved one, might be in heaven missing you when actually they could have just turned around to look at you and you would already be there because there's no concept of time.00:56:36.159 --> 00:56:36.639
Yeah.00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:37.440
Thank you.00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:40.880
If if only if only the Rainbow Bridge had visit hours.00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:41.519
Definitely.00:56:41.840 --> 00:56:44.719
Nadine, thank you so much for joining me on Believe in People.00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:46.320
Thank you for having me, guys.00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:51.679
And if you've enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People Podcast, we'd love for you to share it with others who might find it meaningful.00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:54.400
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