Kevin Kennedy: Coronation Street, Alcohol & Fame - From Soap Star to Recovery Leader

0:00 This is a new original recording. Hello and welcome to the Believe in People podcast. I'm Matthew Butler and I'm your host, or as I like to say, your facilitator. In this episode we have the privilege of speaking with Kevin Kennedy, renowned actor known for his role as Kelly Waltz on Coronation Street. We'll discuss his inspiring story of overcoming addiction, his 25 years of sobriety, his life as a theatre actor and his new recovery centre in Brighton. Hi, my name is Kevin Kennedy. I'm an alcoholic and an addict. Kevin, thank you for coming on the show and congratulations on 25 years sober. Thank you. How does that feel? A quarter of a century of recovery? Well, now it feels like I've been clean and sober longer than I was drinking and using, which seems...

0:48 Incredible. I mean, I remember when I first, I did two rehabs at the beginning of this journey, and I was looking at people who were six months sober, a year sober. Two years seemed like, wow. And I really, really wanted to reach that year. That was the one, you know, that I was counting off the months. And now it's just flown by. I don't really think about it anymore, to be honest with you. Best bit of advice I ever got, by the way. Don't worry about the last drink. Worry about... the next one. And that's the way I kind of looked at it, and that stuck with me.

1:30 You know, it's like if you're in the rooms and the piece of advice comes across, it really sticks with you, and that's what stuck with me. So once I got past that first year, which I thought was tremendous, then, to a certain extent, the real work began, because... The problem with addiction, it's not so much the substance so much, whatever you're using, it's all the stuff around that. That's just a symptom. They call it a disease, a dis-ease with everything around us. So once you've managed to put the drug or the drink down, That's when it becomes difficult, because then you have to deal with everything that you've been anethetizing yourself to in the past.

2:16 And so 25 years later, as literally flown by, lots happened. And some of it good, some of it bad, some of it bloody awful. But by the grace of the fellowships and the people around me, I've not picked up or used. Do you still regularly attend meetings? Yeah, I do as much as I can. As much as I can. Because I'm on the road an awful lot. I've been to some meetings in some places. Some crazy places. They're everywhere. And I've been lucky enough in my career to travel the world. And that is a blessing.

2:58 And I totally appreciate that. But I've managed to get to meetings all over the place. It's a remarkable outfit and organization where you can go into a meeting anywhere in the world. Yes. Anywhere in the world. And you'll hear the same words. You'll hear the same despair, the same hope as well. And in this country, there is sufficient meetings everywhere. Certainly in Hull, because I looked. Have you been to one? No, because I got here on Monday and I went to find the Alcoholics Anonymous base to get a meetings list, but There was no one there.

3:40 Okay. But that's by the by. Yeah, yeah. No, I've not had a chance to get to one while I've been here because we've had problems with the theatre, well, not the theatre, with the production, so I've been in rehearsals. I will get to one next week. I go as much as I can. How long are you in Hall 4? Until Sunday morning. Oh, okay. And then I've got to head off to the next venue. Okay. So speaking about how travelled you are, I didn't realise how much you'd actually done. So you're a seasoned performer in the theatre. I've done an awful lot. I've got a list here. You were taught as the narrator in the Rocky Horror Show. I'm a big fan of Rocky Horror. You sang in Chicago.

4:21 Played the child catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Starred as Pop in We Will Rock You. And obviously this role that you're doing now, the interesting thing is you play in the party-loving... drug-addicted club owner. That's great. How is that for someone in recovery to be playing? Well, I wouldn't recommend it if you're in early recovery. I really wouldn't because it can trigger you. I mean, I did the commitments a few years ago. And we had these wonderfully made wooden pints of Guinness. They were wood. They were very heavy, so they had that weight to them on stage. And that was quite triggering, because I used to love a Guinness, and especially because it was an Irish piece, and I did a lot, and I've got a lot of Irish heritage.

5:11 And, you know, standing in a pub there, you know, with the point, thinking about it, you know, Jesus, they said there it was in front of me. So I had to think about that one. With Dennis... It's a lot different. I don't know whether it's to do with the time that's elapsed or with just using bottles, using a lot of coke on stage. But I have a lot of fun with that. So to a certain extent, I have the fun but without the consequences on stage. But having said that, once I've left the stage, I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to use or to drink.

5:59 It's just for that an hour and whatever, two hours on stage, that it's part of the show. And it's part of the humour of the thing. And it's part of his character that he is off his head all the time. And he makes those decisions that we've all done when we are not. And they're quite... in a masochistic way, I suppose. I quite enjoy doing that, but then I can just leave it and walk away and I don't have to deal with it the next day. So, no, I find that quite... freeing, I think it's quite a good thing to do. And it doesn't trigger me. This is just me personally. I can't talk for other people, but I quite enjoy it.

6:42 And then I enjoy it even more, the fact that once I go through the stage door, then I'm just back to, I didn't care. What's it like, because obviously being part of a small team, I mean, I've done a brief work in performing myself, and it's kind of the go-to thing is after the show, let's go have a drink, celebrations, what was that like for you being a performer being an actor early doors when uh 25 years ago it was a no-no yeah i never never went to the pub unless i was eating or unless i was away from home and city were on the telly football and that's the only place I could access the football because there's recovery and then there's football.

7:26 I mean, come on. But even so, seriously, even if City were on, I'd try to find somewhere I could watch it with that didn't alcohol yeah you've had quite obviously um 25 years it's quite a remarkable recovery journey uh for those that I mean I've I was reading some stuff um earlier today and last night about yourself and your own journey but for someone who doesn't know your story can you take us back and I'm not expecting 25 years somewhere else but can you talk a little bit about like how it how it maybe started for you and I think what's important about my story is it's Pretty much they're going to be the same as everyone else's. And that's the nature of the disease.

8:08 It doesn't matter who you are, what you do, how much money you've got, what car you drive, how much stuff you've got. It doesn't matter. I was, I think I was about 38. I'd always been a heavy drinker, always been a sociable drinker. I loved it, come from a big Irish family. Drink was always part and parcel and it was done successfully. There was, as far as I know, there was no addiction problems within my family. I enjoyed a drink. I loved it. where I, through my drama school years, don't forget this was in the late 70s, early 80s, when drinking was pretty prevalent wherever you went, as was drug taking.

8:59 I just went on the bandwagon, really. I quite liked it. And being an actor of that time, of that ilk, I quite enjoyed the idea of the romantic idea of being an actor of drinking and fighting and ruining women as you went along one step ahead of the law you know from town to town to town breaking hearts and I quite enjoyed that romantic idea of the thing that's what attracted me I quite like the fact that and I was in the West End before I was in Corrie or anywhere else and there was a massive drinking culture in the West End and we had at drinking clubs.

9:47 It was a place like McCready's and other places within the West End, which the actors went to after the show. It was the only place that would stay open late. And I loved all that because you're getting, you know, as a young actor, you go in there and you see all these other actors, famous actors that were in the West End all enjoying a pint and none of them had a problem, I hasten to add. But to me, you know, that's what drew the romantic side of my profession was that, yeah, they can have, can hold their drink they can go on and do the perfect Hamlet they can have a sword fight and they're handsome and debonair I loved all that and I bought into that and I bought into that and this is important that I bought into that idea because later on I will explain why that's important so I continued drinking until I got to about 38 and I'd like to put to bed it wasn't It wasn't pressure of being an actor or pressure of being famous or any of that.

10:56 A lot of people say, yeah, I drank because I couldn't cope with it. There was that, of course, but I cannot put the blame on that of my addiction onto being famous. I drank because I liked it. I used because I liked it I just enjoyed the whole thing and to the point where I couldn't do without it sure enough there were pressures of course there were and maybe a small percentage of that was me coping with the pressures of fame and things like that but what happened to me would have happened anyway No matter what I was doing, whether I'd been a postman, if I worked in a shop or an electrician or a car mechanic, whatever happened to me was going to happen.

11:53 The only effect that fame and money and stardom and the rest of it had on me was it speeded up the process because I had the means. That's what I was going to say. You've got the means to do it. I had the means to do it. I was a lucky boy. I was 38, whatever, 25 million people watching New Week. I was getting good money. I could afford to drink all that I wanted, to use all I wanted, which just speeded up. the process, which I'm thankful for because that process was speeded up. My recovery came quicker.

12:34 I was going to say, yeah, that would make your recovery come quicker as well. The recovery came quicker. So by 40 hours, I was starting my recovery journey. If I'd have been in another job, if I'd have made it to a later age, which is doubtful, then I would have started my recovery a lot later on. I mean, going to what you were saying then, what you were saying then, the amount of people I was watching, I think you're right, was it 25 million people tuned in to watch your wedding with Raquel, with Sarah Lancashire. You was, you was a household name. And to be honest, funny enough, I was thinking about this earlier, I remember in my house in the 90s, we had a Coronation Street mug that had you and Raquel on it.

13:20 Do you know what I mean? So it was just, it's not like that anymore. And it never will be like that. But going with what you're saying there and going on to the character that you played of, Kelly Watts, I've got a quote here where you said, I hid my drinking on set. If I wasn't too shaky, I'd be fine. And I managed a few scenes before lunchtime. Playing Kelly was the perfect job for an addict because when I was performing, I was someone else. And he was a lovely guy who everyone loved. To be honest, being Kelly, it was a bit of a reprieve from being me. Yeah. Tell me about that then. Well, every addict thinks of themselves as morally corrupt.

14:03 They don't think of themselves as someone who's ill. They think there's something wrong with them. I am not a nice man or woman. Nobody knows what I'm really like. I put this persona out of being a nice person, of being a caring person. It's basically self-loathing. And I very much suffered from that like everybody else. I portrayed this lovely guy on the telly. I portrayed a lovely guy in real life. And I probably came across like that, to be fair.

14:44 But that's not the point. I didn't like me. I was the self-loathing. I was full of self-loathing because I knew deep down my drinking, especially my drinking, was not normal. When I discovered the morning drink, I thought I'd discovered the secret of life. I'll never forget that morning. I was shaking badly, sweating. I had to go to work and I found a friend of mine had been abroad to the Caribbean and gave me this doll. It was a Caribbean lady and he unscrewed her head and there was rum in it and I put it in my tea and drank it and suddenly I felt brand new.

15:26 I thought I'd found the secret of existing. Which is your way, that kind of thinking is... is warped, you know, it's crazy. And I was insane, full of self-loathing, insane. And when I knew that moment of awareness that I knew that really this was going to kill me, This is the madness of this disease. I was thinking, well, you know, maybe I could drink for the next, what, four or five years and then die.

16:10 At least I'll get five more years in. I mean, that's just, that's insanity. Thinking, you know, well, it becomes a viable proposition that you could die of this disease rather than then grasp the nettle and say, right, I've got to do something about it. And that was coming, I was to-ing and fro-ing for one or two years when I knew I was close to the end, one way or the other. That jumping off point, as it's referred to many times, is that you can't live without it. What am I going to do?

16:52 Yeah. So that, you know, to go back to your original question, I eventually got to that point around about the age of 38 and that was a battle, you know. I was grieving because I knew I had to give up and I loved it. Yeah. That was the part that I read, I think it was from your book, where you said you was feeling like this is the end, but then part of you, after being in the priory, realised, actually, no, this is the beginning. This goes back to when I say I embraced the idea of being the romantic side of acting, drinking, fighting, breaking hearts, one step ahead of the law firm.

17:34 Yeah, I embraced that. When it came to recovery... not straight away, I hasten to add, I embraced recovery. Because suddenly I realised that all this that was on offer, I was told, you can do anything. If you give up your job, The drinking and the drugging. And I have to say as well, my drugging was a byproduct of my alcoholism. My alcoholism was my big problem. Well, that was it, because when they first tested your blood, they found cocaine in your system. You wasn't even aware that you'd taken the cocaine. I can't even remember I'd done it. Yeah, during the blackout, I suppose. Yeah.

18:15 I love drinking so much that there's a drug you can take, that if you take it, you can drink more. Yeah. And that drug was speed. And... I thought, oh, wow. Before, I wasn't that bothered. I used to drink it until I fell over. But if there was a drug available, which means you could drink more, I thought that was amazing. So my drug use was secondary. It was another symptom of my alcoholism. And when it came, actually, in my own defense, and to my credit, I think, after 25 years, I can claim credit. Yeah. When they said, well, you have to give up coke and speed or whatever, and marijuana was never a problem anyway, I went, okay.

19:02 Yeah, that was the easy part for you. That was the easy part for me. Yeah. Because that didn't hold any attraction without booze. Marijuana was never, even when I was drinking used marijuana, I never liked because it just made me want to sit and stare at the telly and eat everything in the fridge. Yeah. you know so did you understand like when you was going through this did you understand the physical dependency to it because obviously you said like you'd wake up in the morning you had that room you put in your tea and you fell better and it's like i've discovered a magical exit so did you because i think when we talk about stigma one of the things that sometimes you hear people say with someone who's got an alcohol dependence is oh well why don't you just stop then so did you understand the physical dependence that your body was going through with this like oh if i have some i'll feel better or What was that then?

19:51 I just, I knew that I was physically, deep down I knew I was physically dependent on alcohol, that I had to have a drink. Because everything I did was based around alcohol. And when I started drinking in the morning, I thought, even though you're thinking to yourself, I just need this to get through and then I'll sort myself out. It's just denial. It's always been denial. I knew I was addicted. But obviously admitting that and doing something about it, He's totally different from knowing it. And I had various attempts to stop. There was one famous episode where I'd been away.

20:35 I'd been in the Caribbean on holiday, and I'd really battered it. And I come back. I thought, right, that's it. I'm going to stop now. So I stopped two, three days in. I'm crossing the street in Manchester where I lived, and I had a fit. I had an alcoholic fit. because my body was going, where's your booze? Caught by a newspaper, photographed in an ambulance, the rest of it, front page news. And I explained to the medical people, I said, well, I've been drinking a lot, so I decided to stop. And they said, well, you can't do that. You have to do it gradually and with drugs. Now, I didn't hear the you have to do it gradually and with drugs bit.

21:20 I just heard you can't do that. That's the only bit I heard. So I thought, wow, that's it. So I can't stop drinking now. Why does that happen? It's almost like someone's given you a pass to go and have a drink. Absolutely, yeah. And when they said, actually, you're okay. You've done no damage to your liver. Even more of a pass. Yeah, but if you carry, the thing is, there's no damage to your liver, but if you carry on, there will be. But I didn't hear that bit. I hear, there's no damage to your liver. You can't stop. That's the bit I chose to hear. Do you know what? I'm just going to touch on this as well. So I've got another quote here. You've said here, I was beaten. The nurse helped me into bed and I was in a dreadful state.

22:01 I knew I'd reached the end one way or another. I just didn't know what the end was. The biggest emotion I felt right then was shame, massive, horrible shame. The four hideous horsemen, shame, remorse, self-disgust and worst of them all, fear. had found me again. I knew deep down my drinking was not normal, but it is a disease of denial. Some people will watch this, so my question to you is some people will watch this and see your success, and you've told us about your success, obviously being a household name. What was the absolute rock bottom moment for you? It was a moment of clarity. A real moment of clarity. I was being driven into Granada Television, And I didn't have a drink.

22:49 And I said to the lady that was driving me, you have to stop this car so I can go and get a drink. And she said, I'm not going. I said, if you don't, I'm going to open the door and jump. So she did. I went in the shop, got the bottle, came out, take a massive swig of it. And then it's just something just switched. And I went, I can't do this anymore. physically, mentally, spiritually bankrupt. That moment. And I knew in that moment that if I actually didn't do something, I would die. And for the first time, dying wasn't an option.

23:33 I thought, I don't want to die. That's ridiculous. Which has never, never happened before. You know, dying was like, well, you know... five years, but I thought, no, I just don't want to do this anymore. And that was the moment. And as soon as I'd made that decision, that's when everything got easier and harder. I just let it happen because I knew what was going to happen. They were going to whisk me off and put me into... into the priory. And a lot of people talk about the priory like it's some sort of holiday camp hotel. Yeah, the facilities are great.

24:15 But if you go in the priory and think it's all easy, then you're not doing it right. Because that's not what it's about. It's just that you have a comfier bed and you have better facilities. But the journey is as hard as it would be if you didn't have a comfy bed or facilities. It's a real wake-up time. And even part of me was fighting it then. I remember my bosses at ITV who have to take credit because they they eventually put me in in they took the American route of things where you know we rehabilitate our people we don't just sack them before that I think it was very much right okay he's out of control you can't do the show sack him yeah yeah that was the part that I found quite interesting because at a time you'd think that would have been the approach.

25:13 Yeah, but they changed, and credit to them. And now that is the, thank the Lord, in most big companies, there's a rehabilitation program. And that's one of the things that we followed the Americans in, which is pretty decent. It's good, actually. So rather than just get rid of me, they sent me to rehabilitation. So considering you've given yourself five years, hearing a doctor tell you stop drinking or die, what was that like? Was that a morbid moment or was you kind of like, eh? Well, yeah. I mean, as I say, you know, it was a viable proposition until I decided, as I've described, to do something about it.

26:02 I think then it became a bit morbid. I think then I suddenly realised just how close I could have got. I mean, I didn't weigh much at the time. I'd given up eating. It just got in the way. And I thought, well, I've got to do something about it. And the shame part of it and the guilt, and most alcoholics, I think it's fair to say, in my opinion, will forgive anyone else for stuff that's happened to them. They're that kind of people. They just forgive, you know. But the person that they can't forgive or come to terms with is what they've done to themselves.

26:44 They're more upset, I think, to what they've done to others. And I was obviously one of, for me, it was that I thought I was just, I was guilt ridden of what I'd put my wife through and my parents and my family, my work colleagues. And I've still got that. I still have to deal with that occasionally. I mean, I'll be driving along in the car and a piece of music will come on or something will come on on the telly, like a film that was on or was prevalent when I was using or drinking. And then immediately I'm back in that state of shame. I have to say, 25 years later, this is for me, some people deal with it a lot better, but for me, massive amounts of shame still around that.

27:34 I have to say, 25 years down the line, this still happens, but it doesn't last as long. And the periods in between those attacks of shame and guilt get longer and longer. but it's still there. Of course it's still there. And to a certain extent, I'm glad it is because 25 years later, you can start to forget what it was like. It's like breaking your leg. if you're playing football and you break your leg, you would think you'd never play football again because you might break your leg. But you don't. Childbirth, not that I've experienced it, but I've been told that at the time it's extremely painful.

28:19 You think never again, but women go on to have, because the body forgets. And that is our defense mechanism. That is absolutely normal and natural. And with addiction, it's the same thing. We can forget. the shame and the guilt. So I'm quite thankful that occasionally I get these attacks of guilt. And you know, that is normal. Because I'm doing something my body doesn't like, which is not drinking. I'm doing something my body doesn't like, which is drinking to excess. And there's going to be not a physical, I don't think, not anymore, but certainly a mental side to it.

29:07 Well, that's the part that I always... I was having this conversation with one of my peer support volunteers yesterday. I mean, I follow a lot of social media influencers around addiction and recovery. And one guy had said that he doesn't consider himself to be in recovery anymore. He considers himself to be recovered. And that's because he'd been... much like yourself, roughly around 25 years sober. What's your take on the whole recovery and recovered? Well, for me, this is for me personally, I'm not recovered. No. No way. I still have that side of me which goes to excess. I think it's part of my makeup.

29:48 And I like it. I recognize it. I embrace it. I use it. I use it in my professional life. If I'm portraying something, it's, for example, Dennis. Dennis is the king of excess. And because I have an insight in that, I use it in what I do on the stage. So you're channeling it into something positive. And we're obsessed. We're obsessive. And that is a very powerful, useful tool used in the right way. Because if you're, say you're in early addiction and you pick up a guitar or you pick up a piano or writing or painting or sculpture or poetry or whatever, which is an outlet, and you have the same obsessive behavior around that, that you had with your drinking or using, it could become very powerful indeed.

30:54 But it's a question of just flicking that switch. And that's the interesting thing, because going on what you were saying, then obviously there isn't, your body will now not have a physical dependency to alcohol. However, if you was to have one drink now, it's not that your body will need more alcohol, it's that obsessive and mental side of it then, isn't it? Yeah, if I take a drink now, physically I would... probably get away with it. But mentally, the damage that that would do would kill me. Because the obsession, because if I'm not drinking it, I'm thinking about it. If I'm not thinking about it, I'm drinking it or planning it.

31:36 And it scares me just to think of that because it's powerful. The brain's a very powerful tool and can push you into all sorts of situations that I just don't want to go down again. I mean, I know I've got another drink and drug in me. Whether I've got another recovery in me is doubtful. It's very doubtful. And the thought of it makes me go cold. I just can't go down that route again. I get that, yeah. Going back to the Priory, you said then that, yes, the Priory has nicer beds and nicer facilities. One thing I always found interesting about detox and going to rehab is when you're in the detox, when you're in the rehab, it's one of the safest places you can be in that sense.

32:25 What's it like coming out of there after detox? Because... The vulnerabilities are there now. When you go into the shop to do the big shot, there's the alcohol aisle. The temptations are there out there. You don't have that. And they, obviously, they can prepare you for it, but they can't stop you going into these environments, like you say about the pub. So what was that like when you first came out? Well, when I first came out, I did my four weeks. Yeah. And I was shaky at the end of it. I mean, I battered the meetings. I had a routine problem. i didn't go to work for six months and i used to do a meeting on the sunday monday wednesday unless city were at home on the midweek match so i'd go to the match but but i'd do one either on the tuesday on the thursday because i missed the wednesday friday sunday again and i did that for six months solid surrounding myself with people who understood, basically.

33:34 Because most people don't understand, and why should they? They don't understand. Well, that's what we're saying, isn't it? The idea of, well, why don't you just stop? No, well, the idea of someone saying, just stop, is ludicrous. Exactly, yeah. It's a mental disease. It's not a moral failing. No. You have to have it. And when I see people on the streets, I know what they're going through. I try and give them money if I can. And people go, what are you doing that for? They're only going to drink. I go, have you ever really wanted a drink? I mean, really wanted a drink. Not, oh, I fancy a pint.

34:16 I mean, your whole existence is geared to that next drink. That is... probably the worst ever you'd do anything to get that next drink because I mean I remember just the click of the of the bottle of the vodka top when I get the vodka bottle it's funny that I can hear that sound as you've said it I know exactly what it is as soon as I heard that I started to feel better I've not even drank it because you know you're going to get the drink isn't it And I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

35:00 I know what that's like. And I know the depravity and the feeling of self-disgust that you are tied to this next drink or drug your whole life. being is dependent on what happens in the next five minutes if someone gives you enough money. Similar sort of thing, we run a needle exchange and I had a student say to me before, doesn't that just encourage them to use drugs if you offer a needle exchange? And what you were just saying then, I was like, no, they're going to use drugs regardless. The safest thing we can do is provide them with a clean pin as opposed to a blunt needle or a shared needle.

35:43 But it's that mentality, as you were saying. And funny enough, along that same line, you see the anxiousness. And then once you give them the bag with the needle in, or once they've got the prescription for the methadone, how calm they come. And it's not because they're rattling. It's because they know if they don't get it, they're going to be rattling. And that's kind of the addiction mentality. And that goes across alcohol addiction, but to obviously drug addiction as well. It's hard work. I mean, I remember thinking I've got to make sure that I've got enough booze in me to keep everything still and to be be able to do my job and I knew that if I'd gone too far with that I'm going to become visibly drunk but if I go too less then I'm going to have the rattles and the shakes and the fear so that's a terrifying balancing act And that was one thing that really scared, always scared me.

36:49 Have I got enough? Have I got too much? So what was the detox process like for you then if you had that sort of mentality? What was it like for you personally? Well, when I was actively drinking, I never had that detox. I was a maintenance drinker. I was always keeping it to a certain level. I tried to come down, but once you drop to a certain level, you get into physical trouble. So you have to top it back up again, which only adds to the shame and the guilt thing again, because you think, why am I doing this? And you know why, because your body's screaming for it to get yourself on an even keel.

37:29 And it's a devil's balancing act, which I'm so thankful and grateful I don't have to do that anymore. Because it's a terrible way to live. Constantly thinking, I might have had enough. I've not had enough. I've had too much. If I've had too much, shall I have some copies? It's just... How did they do that for you in the priory then? Because obviously, from what I read, again, going back to it, you went in there in tears. Well, yeah. What was the detox process like within the priory? Well, once I got into the priory, of course, the first thing they do is pump you full of drugs to make the calm down and the detox safe.

38:14 Yeah. Which is absolutely necessary, isn't it? So, although my body was relaxed and almost sleepy, my brain, my head was just racing with the guilt. Because you just think the whole world knows now, you know, how am I going to deal with this? Even though inside of me I knew that I'd done the right thing and I was... I've got to try and get better. But a small scan, a scant help when you're wrapped up in the guilt and the shame of this disease, because it's very powerful.

38:56 And, you know, thoughts, they didn't for me, fortunately, but I understand when people take their lives, which is absolutely tragic because of the guilt. And a lot of this happens in early recovery because they're desperate. Yeah. And there's nothing more sad. Yeah. To give it context, I manage a lot of the people that have gone through recovery and then want to peer support other people in recovery. And somebody said to me once... I said, how's it going for you? He said, I feel naked. He said, I feel like everybody's looking at me.

39:37 He said, weirdly enough, more people would have been looking at me when I was under the influence down the street causing my illness. He said, no. He said, I'm walking around normal. And he said, but I just feel naked and I feel really vulnerable. Absolutely. Can you relate to that? Absolutely. To go back to your original question, what it was like when I came out, yeah, I battered the meetings and I did what I was told, but I still carried the guilt. I still felt as though... as though everyone was looking at me. Which they might have. I suppose we've celebrated status. It's for different reasons. This is how mad I was when I first went to meetings. I think it was during my stay in the Priory because meetings are compulsory.

40:20 I mean, I remember saying things like, well, you know, I'm only here because I'm being watched. That's how crazy I was. I mean, you're a really nice person, and I hope you get well. All the people here are lovely, and I hope they all get well, but I'm only here because I'm being watched, which is bullshit. Although, maybe I was. And for once, the fame thing helped, because that's what kept me going. Yeah. And if it keeps you going, it's a blessing. So I thought, I'll do these meetings because I'm big. And ego, it's ego. Massive ego.

41:01 And that's one of the biggest things about this disease. You have the biggest ego on the outside. On the inside, you think you're the worst piece of shit that ever walked the earth. So my ego... I was going, oh, can I keep going to these meetings? And I hated it at first. So anyone who's watching or listening to this, who's just going on this journey of going to meetings, believe me, you won't like it. I didn't like it. I don't think anyone likes it. And I sat there and I was thinking, and they're lovely people. As I said, oh, these are really nice people. I didn't listen. I just went there because I knew I had to go.

41:43 But eventually... almost by a series of osmosis, the recovery message started to drop and I was in this horrible scout hut, stank of pee. There was canoes on the ceiling and I didn't like the room because I was very important. I had a tan and everything. Why am I in this room? I've got a tan. But I've got to be here because I'm being watched. But eventually, I love that room.

42:23 I love that room. And I couldn't wait to get in it. Yeah. Because it's the only place I got into where everyone understood what I was talking about. Yeah. It was one of the things that I read was when the facilitator had said to you, does that make sense to you? And you went, no. And she went, do you know what? That's the best honest thing you've said since you've been here. Yeah. And you said you liked that. Yeah. You liked that. I mean, it taught me through that then, that sort of acceptance. Because that's one thing that I think is really good about the fellowship for people that are ambivalent to go, don't really want to go, is when they... their feelings of acceptance, because a lot of people in addiction are very isolated and lonely. And then you're suddenly in a room with people who, like you said, there's the denial element, like I don't belong here.

43:07 And then once you realize, hang on, these are my peers and they understand me, that's a lifeline to a lot of people. When I first got to rehab, I thought I was Billy Big Ball. And understandably, because when you're being attacked or you feel as though you're being attacked, you portray your strengths. No matter what you do, what you're good at, So I knew I was a good actor because I had the laurels and the people watching me. So I said, I'm an actor. I'm an actor. I'm an actor. I'm an actor. I'm an actor. And that's just a deflection. And I hated the woman that was talking to me.

43:49 She's now one of my favorite people in the world. But I'm an actor. I'm an actor. I was full of shit. I don't know if we could say shit. To be fair, yeah, you can curse all you want, don't worry. I was full of shit. Yeah, right. But I had to be. Yeah. Because that was my defence. I am an actor. I am very famous. I am very important, right? And I don't take any criticism. Yes, I'm an alcoholic and a drug addict, but I am an actor, and you can't tell me what to do. That's what it was. Kind of keeping everybody at arm's length. Yeah, that was my defense.

44:31 Until one day, the lady was explaining something to me, and it was, again, another moment of clarity when she says, do you understand that? And I went, I've got no idea what you're talking about. And she said... That's the most honest thing you've said since you've been here. And I wasn't offended by that. I went, she's right. And then suddenly, things started to click into place. The walls start coming down a little bit. I started actually listening to what was being said to me. I mean, I've never met a stupid addict. I've met unfortunate addicts.

45:12 I've met people that have damaged themselves so much. that now they've got problems. I've never met a stupid addict because the level of organization that goes into being an addict is immense. Some of the most intelligent people I think I've ever met have been in addiction. Remembering what lie goes where, who you told what to and all that. That's a heavy duty stuff. So I did get it on a... This is the interesting thing. I got it on an intellectual level, right? You carry this on, you're going to die. I understood that. Of course, yeah. Up it. I get that, right? What I couldn't get it on was an emotional level.

45:55 I didn't understand that on an emotional level. Yeah. And that took time for that to get in. And that's when things started to change as soon as I got honest. And being honest, again, if you're listening or watching this, being honest is the key. Mostly with yourself. Yeah. You know? You've got to be honest. And it's difficult because we've told so many lies. Half-truths, outright lies, half-truths, white lies, black lies, whatever. You've got to get honest and you've got to get honest with yourself. Did you get a sponsor? Did the private... Assign you a sponsor?

46:36 They don't assign you one. They recommend, like the rooms of AA, which, again, I have to say, for me, I couldn't have done this without the rooms of AA or CA or any of the fellowships. They're there. They're there to be used. And I used them to the full extent for the first year, and I still do. That is vital. because for two reasons, you're gonna get the best advice in there because these people have been there, right? And two, it's free. It's free.

47:17 All you gotta do is go. It's free. Brilliant, thank you. I told you about how I embraced the idea of being a lunatic and everything. I thought it was quite romantic. I embraced recovery, right? I grabbed it with both hands and I wanted it all, right? I wanted it all because I was looking at the people around me in the AA rooms and they're all laughing. And believe me, the rooms of AA can be the most hysterical, funny places I've never been in with the stories because there's tragedy, there's comedy, right?

47:58 It's that close. So someone could be telling you the most tragic story, but it's hilarious. Because when you think it's like a sitcom, when you think nothing worse could happen to this person, it happens. And the nature of the human beings is to laugh. We laugh when someone slips on a banana skin. It's funny. It hurts. It could break something, but it's funny. Can't help it. That's what recovery is like. And recovery is not all ginger beer and Jesus. It's not. There's a lot of fellowship. And you will find friends in the fellowship that... you've got a lifelong bond with.

48:41 And I have been, again, lucky enough to have been around the world, and I have met some very, very senior people in business, in government, in the acting circle, film stars, theatre, massive, massive stars, far bigger than I'll ever be. And I find out they're in recovery, or they find out I'm in recovery, and we're on the same level. All of a sudden. Because we're talking about the same thing. It's a shared experience of survival. And there's a bond there.

49:22 So I just grabbed all this while I could. And I wanted to do everything they said. They said, you can do anything. So I thought, right, okay. I'm going to be a recording star. and I'm going to go to Nashville. I'm going to play in Nashville. That's what I'm going to do. And that's what I did. Now, I'm not saying to you people that, well, you might, I don't know, that you might, right, if I get sober or if I stop taking drugs, I'm going to be a recording star. I'm going to go to Nashville. That's not the point. You may do. And if you do, good luck to you. I love you. But what I'm saying to you is You can do anything.

50:05 You can do anything if you just put it down. Your life will open up. I promise you, your life will get so much better. Two promises. First promise, if you don't stop, it ain't going to get better. That's absolutely nailed on. Two, if you do stop and you listen to what people say, tell you to do in the rooms of AANACA or the rest of the fellowships, your life will get better. I promise you. Thank you. No, I completely agree with you. Tell me about the band in Nashville then, before we move on.

50:45 Well, I was newly sober and I was told I could do whatever I wanted. And while I was at, I was still doing Granada, and Simon Cowell, Before he was God, he ran his record company, I think it was BGA or something like that. And I sent some music down to him under a pseudonym for a song called Bulldog Nation. And he requested a meeting. So I went down to meet him and I walked in and he went... I know you, I know you. And I said, we did this because I didn't want you to judge it on being in a soap.

51:30 I wanted you to judge it musically. And to his credit, he signed. He signed me. Which then started a whole kind of weird stuff happening. I mean, I've been playing in country bands for a long time anyway. I've been playing with a show band in Manchester, an Irish show band called The Borderline. And that was my reaction because I hated pop music. There was no more guitar bands in the early 80s. It was all Stock Aikman and Walkman, and I hated it. I couldn't listen to it. So being a guitar boy, the only way I could kind of get my fix, for the better word, was to go and join a band.

52:13 So I joined the Borderline, and that was the best training you could get musically. which stood me in good stead later on in life. So I played with the boys for four or five years, because I didn't want to be photographed in a headlock outside some club in London. So whilst people were going and getting drunk in Stringfellows in London or whatever, I was playing in St. Cuthbert's, the Ardrey, other famous Irish drinking halls in Manchester as an anonymous bass player. Okay. He's never advertised. Do you sing in your Irish accent? No. That's a shame. No. And it was brilliant.

52:54 It was like kind of a Manchester secret. Yeah, yeah. You never guess who's a bass player with them because he was never advertised. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was cool. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I just turned up and, you look like, yeah. Get it all the time. Yeah, get it all the time. Yeah. On one famous occasion, a mate of mine, Dougie James Soltrain, who was a massive band in Manchester, and I went on roadieing for him once, just so I could be around music. And there was this fellow, and he was a Michael Jackson lookalike, and he was in the dressing room putting on, and I'm oiking the gear, and he went, you look like, are you doing a show? Are you like Curly Watts lookalike? And I said, no, no, I'm just the roadie.

53:36 He said, yeah, well, it's just as well you look fuck all like him. And of course Dougie and the boys were laughing and it was a great moment. So I was always around music and I always found it a great outlet. And plus I could drink. That's a big plus at the time. So when I got sober, I sent this demo down and he signed me. We made an album, which the single I think got to something like number 34. wedged between Madonna and Jerry Halliwell, which is, you know. Not terrible, though, to hit the top four. Well, if you're going to get wedged between those two, that's not too bad, is it?

54:22 So, you know, it was okay. But then they dropped me. But then EMI picked it up, and I ended up going to Australia, New Zealand. The album went gold in New Zealand. And then I got invited to play in the deep south of America. So I played at the River Fest in Kansas or Arkansas. Little Rock. Yeah. famously the place where the little black girl went to school for the first time in the 60s but they had a big river fest there and I was on the same bill as Steve Earle Willie Nelson Johnny Cash I mean I was right and then I got invited and then I went to a place called Elvis Presley's Memphis on Beale Street in Memphis and I played that night I played there as well I played the Reading Festival my cousin's band was a band called The Men They Couldn't Hang and that was cool so I'd got this kind of pedigree of playing music and it was nuts because I was still doing Coronation Street and I remember one Friday afternoon I was filming we did an episode about Cavaliers Roundheads and Cavaliers and we were in this park in Manchester where I used to play as a kid weirdly enough and we filmed that on a Friday Friday night I got a plane to Atlanta, Georgia, got picked up, was taken to Clarksville, I think it was, which was Morgan Freeman's got a blues club there called Ground Zero, which is right on the Mississippi.

56:05 And I played there that night. So it was a bizarre experience. But the point with recovery is because I was so wrapped up in this, I could do anything I could do. And then Coronation Street came to an end, which I think if I'd have been still using and drinking, would have finished me off. I'd have gone straight into the poor me's, poor me's, poor me's. But because I was... I was clean and I was sober. I thought, yeah, although it was devastating, but I thought, well, hang on, wait a minute. This could be another beginning.

56:46 And yet another beginning. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Another beginning. And because I played so much music, my musicals came along, which is something I'd never even thought about. And this was before they were really popular like they are now. And the first one I did was Rocky Horror. And Johnny Wilkes, who was playing Frank, who'd been a mate of mine anyway, he introduced me to the nuances of musical theatre, which is totally different. It's as different from Shakespeare to Panto. It has its own language, it has its own rules.

57:27 And I loved it. What was that like, though? Because obviously by this point, you was already a seasoned star actor. Did it feel weird becoming a student again? Do you talk a lot about ego? Well, no, because I'd done theatre before. I mean, the idea was never to be on TV. I was trained in theatre. And I'd done the West End, and I'd done tours, and I'd done the odd show here and there, and Shakespeare's, before I even got to Corrie. So to me, it was just like going home. Yes, I know what you mean. It was a new discipline. But because I had this, I could do this. All I've got to do is not drink.

58:09 That's all I've got to do. And I embraced it. I didn't do it well sometimes, but I learnt. And being humble, I think, is a new experience for me. It was then, and it still is. Humble enough to watch other people and go... That's good. How do I do that? And ask. It's just interesting when you talk about egos because obviously you've come in here and you just seem like an everyday person. Excuse me one sec. I don't know who that is. It's my missus. Do you want to take it off? No, no. Are you okay? I suppose let's talk a little bit about... Kennedy Street. Yeah, Kennedy Street.

58:49 Obviously you just mentioned your missus there. Claire and I, my wife, when I first got... sober when we first started this journey. We started it together. We realized that there is so much shame and stigma that who do you ask? How do you ask someone for help? Because that's the answer. The answer to any addiction is asking for help and meaning it. That's the answer. That's the start point. Always the hardest, but that's the start point. So we thought, where do you go to? So we came up with Kennedy Street, which was an idea. We were in America and we went, we were looking for a meeting and we found this meeting house, it was out in Florida somewhere, and it was amazing.

59:37 You walked in this meeting house, it was kind of a cafe bar in the middle, and on one side was AA, Narcotics Anonymous, or CA, you know, cocaine, on the other side was AA, Alcoholics Anonymous. And we thought, this is brilliant. This is brilliant. And that idea stayed with us for a while. And Kennedy Street was just, it was in the ether. You've typed it in and you get a phone number to ring. And then that was just me and Claire. We said, well, listen, you got to do this. You got to do that, whatever. And that idea grew and grew and grew over 20 years until just before the pandemic, we actually got a physical building, which I'm sure you guys know how difficult it is to get, which is now in Brighton.

1:00:17 And it's the Kennedy Street Recovery. Because we've always kept the name Kennedy Street for obvious reasons. And so now what we do is, it's all run by peers, people who've been in addiction, all volunteers who are in recovery. And it always starts with a cup of tea. Come in, have a brew. No judgment. It's a safe place. It's not a hospital. It's not a police station. It's not affiliated with anyone. So come in and have a cup of tea. And you can come in and have a cup of tea, be honest with us, and we'll say, okay, well, these are your options.

1:00:59 We always go for the free option because we know money's tight or just unavailable or just not possible. We can send you here. We can send you there. We can give you the address. And it's not, it's a hands-up option. place. It's not a hands-out place. If you come with your hand out wanting stuff, unless you're in recovery, then you're not going to get it. You go, look, I've got a problem. I like that. Hands up. Hands up, not hands out. And we will help anyone. And so that's how it works. We're also there for people that are in recovery or trying to get back into work.

1:01:45 We get people in to run stuff, workshops, how to fill out forms, how to do this, how to do that. It's just to get people back in. to the mainstream of life. Because at the end of the day, it's a bridge to normal living. You're not going to walk away from alcohol. It's going to be around you all the time. Drugs are going to be there. We try and give you the tools to go, no, I've done that thing. No, thanks. Used all that, drank all of that. You, no, I've done all that. No, not for me anymore, thanks. Yeah.

1:02:26 And, you know, recovery is the new rock and roll. Yeah. Recovery is the new rock and roll. It's the hardest thing to do in the world. And so that's what we do. That's how we try to help people. Is it just you and Claire or do you have volunteers? We have volunteers. Ah, nice, yeah. We got the building off Brighton Council. God bless you, Brighton Council. And, you know, we've not even had it a year yet. Hmm. And so we're just learning. We're getting on our feet. We take a lot of advice from other organizations. We will be into your ribs for ideas and how we do.

1:03:08 It's everything that comes with addiction. Like you said, there's one thing to come and say, look, I've got a problem with alcohol. I've got a problem with drugs. But as you've said then, there's... employment, there's mental health, there's all this stuff that comes into it, isn't it? That's why the infrastructure needed to run something like that. It could be quite big, but bring it down to its basic value is, I need help and I'm willing to give you help. That is it. That is the two things you need. I need help, I am willing to do anything. That's it. That is it. And then you go, okay, we need you to go to a meeting tonight, now. Maybe that commitment to be able to do that as well.

1:03:51 What advice would you give to people perhaps with a hidden addiction or something that they're worried about keeping from their family? I know you've said about getting to a meeting or something else. If you don't want your family to know about your addiction, and I totally understand this, whether it be gambling, especially gambling, that's why they're called anonymous. No one is going to grass you up. No one is going to break your anonymity. I can't even say it. Never mind grass you up. Go along. Ask for help. And you will get it.

1:04:31 Yeah. But once you've started that journey, then it's up to you. You've got to do it. And it's not easy. No. It's not easy. Believe me, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it. But it's not. And what you've got to remember is addicts, whether you're a gambler, drug addict, alcoholic, we're special people. We should be dead so many times over. But we're not. We're not dead because we're hard to kill. We're survivors. Go and get some help. Because believe me, your life will get better. Brilliant. Thank you, Kevin. I've got a series of questions that I ask all our guests.

1:05:13 It's relevant to everything that we've spoken about so far, but it's just a nice way to end the podcast. So we're going to come out of left field a little bit here. But my first question is, what is your favourite word? Bollocks. What's your least favourite word? Tax. Tell me something that excites you. Not so many. New strings. Nice. New strings on a guitar excite me. Tell me something that doesn't excite you. Old strings. Waiting. Yeah, fair enough. Understandable.

1:05:53 What sound or noise do you love? I like to hear my children laughing. That's nice. Tell me a sound or noise that you hate. Phones in hotels. Because it always... So specific. Yeah, because it always reminds me of... Where are you? Fear. Yeah. I get that. What's your favourite curse word? And not bollocks, something else. We've got a different one. I like how Ellie was asking, can I swear on this? And I was like, what's your favourite curse word?

1:06:36 Fuck. Yeah. Because that just covers everything. It does, yeah. Fuck off. It's fucked. The context is infinite, isn't it, for the word fuck? If you wasn't an actor, what profession would you like to attempt? I think I'd be a muso or a musician. Oh, yeah. Or I'd be some kind of historian. Oh, historian. Where does that come from? I've always liked history. It fascinates me. I like it. Yeah. What profession would you not like to do? Dentist. Dentist. I wouldn't fancy that.

1:07:18 Is it correct that you were in a band with members of the Smiths? I was. When I was 14, I was with Johnny Marr. Again, we were only 14, and I didn't put that much credence on it until I read Johnny's book. And he puts a lot of importance on it, so I thought, okay. And yeah, so that was... Again, 14. So, yeah, I was. Nice. You see, this isn't a question we ask everybody. That one's tailored to you. One more tailored to you. You're a big Man City fan. Yeah. Are we watching the greatest team ever to be assembled in England right now? And what are your predictions for the final?

1:07:59 I can't watch it because I'm on stage. Luckily, the crew were great and the best crew in the world give me updates as I come off. Nice. But if the opposition have scored, they don't tell me because I go on the next scene. But if City have scored, they tell me. I go like... The final, I think we're on a week's break, so I'll catch the final. The FA Cup final... We're going to be in Belgium at the time with this. So that's going to be tricky. I'm not sure, unless it's on a Sunday. I don't know when it is, do you? I don't know when it is.

1:08:40 It's normally on a Sunday, isn't it? Yeah, it's normally on a Sunday. And then lastly, if heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates? Well, firstly, heaven does exist, as does God. But it's all in here. He'll probably say, you again. You mithering bastard. More every day you're asking for something. Brilliant. And that's it. Thank you very much. You've been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. And if you enjoyed this episode of the Believe in People podcast, don't forget to check out our other episodes and hit that subscribe button. Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok. Our name is CGL Hull. That's C-G-L-H-U-L-L.

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