Lewis Raymond Taylor: The Psychopath Life Coach & UNLIMITED: Turning Adversity Into An Asset

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_03 0:00

This is a renewed original recording. Hello and welcome to season 3 of Believe in People, the British Podcast Award-winning series exploring addiction, recovery, and the stigma that surrounds them. I'm Matthew Butler, your host, or as I like to say, your facilitator. Today I'm joined by Dr. Lewis Raymond Taylor. Once considered beyond help, Lewis transformed a life shape by childhood trauma, addiction, violence, and repeated prison sentences into one dedicated to personal development and helping others change. He's the founder of The Coaching Masters, an international speaker, author of the newly released Unlimited, and the subject of the Netflix documentary, The Psychopath Life Coach. In this conversation, we explore addiction as an attempted solution, the impact of trauma and identity, recovery, responsibility, and what it really means to turn adversity into an asset. One of the passages that that really stood out to me in your book was where you write that all the booers, the drugs, the destruction of things, other people, and yourself was attempts to drown out something inside of you. You then describe obviously the prison sentences, the missing teeth, a cracked jaw, knife wounds, a hospital admission, and waking up in cells and not really remembering what had happened there. So most people, I think hearing that story would probably conclude that the alcohol, the drugs, and even possibly a love for violence was the problem. But from reading the book, I get the sense that you see those things very differently. So what

Addiction As An Attempted Solution

SPEAKER_03 1:26

I guess these were your actual attempted solutions at something. Looking back now, how much was the the pain, the the belief or feeling underneath all of that? What was so powerful that even those consequences weren't enough to make you stop those habitual behaviours?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

There's a lot to unpack there. It was a long one. I like to start with a long one and then it were lots to talk about from there. Yeah, so I've yeah, as I said in my book, I don't believe that drugs and alcohol is the problem. I believe it is the solution to the problem, right? I don't think I was fully aware of what my problem was. I remember there was one time in rehab, I'm sure we'll get on to that, where I was starting to become more aware and wanted to be more curious about you know myself. And I put my hand up and I said, What do you do if you have a problem but you don't know what your problems are? Because I knew there was something going on. My head just felt stuffed and crammed and busy, but I didn't really know how to you know pinpoint what exactly was going on for me. Also, a lot of it felt normal. I know it sounds bizarre, but obviously the denial obviously is a it was a big factor. But I'd grown up with my friends doing the same sort of things. I kind of liked the chaotic lifestyle. So, in part of my mind, I guess I was justifying it as a choice that I was making. And also, I'm sure we'll touch on the whole antisocial personality disorder that I have, which probably a lot of people in addiction do have, especially a lot of people in prison. Maybe not so extreme as the categorizers, the psychopath one that you know I've been labelled with, but personality disorders are actually very common. I think they're about 30% of the population in some respect, and that does come with some symptoms of kind of not fully understanding the consequences of your actions and you know, that kind of behavior just feeling normal. So I I was sort of going through life. I wasn't really in control of it. You know, I'd I was I was actually spiraling out of control, and that's another thing I did mention in my book. I is life felt always like it was spiraling out of control, and I was just sort of going with it. And even when I did try and make some changes and they were very small, I would just find myself always back where I started. And then I would have, you know, when I started to to change my mindset, which is something I never thought would be possible, I started realizing that things could spiral into control. Yeah. Which is something that I think that I've I've coined. I don't know if anyone else has ever said that before, but that's kind of how it felt. It was like walking on the right side of the conveyor belt in the airport. I always felt like I was walking backwards, like walking against the tide almost. You know, I made one step forward and now I'm 10 steps back again. Why does this keep happening? You know, because when you're a bit more aware of yourself, you start to realize your triggers and your traumas and your issues and your behaviors and things, and you can kind of manage them, pre- uh, you know, anticipate them, preempt them. But if you're not aware of them, they just run the show. So I can't even remember your question, but I hope that answers some of them. No, no, I I get it.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

I suppose what you what we're real looking at is was addiction serving a purpose for you? And what and what was the what was the purpose it was serving?

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Yeah, so there's a few different things for me. This is only something that I realised in hindsight. It wasn't at the time, I don't know if it's the same for a lot of other addicts, but for me, I didn't wake up feeling like I needed to necessarily take drugs to fix or numb or avoid something. It was just what I did to cope subconsciously. And I look back on it in reflection and I think that's obviously why I was doing it. So a few things. Because of this antisocial personality disorder, because of the trauma that I've experienced, you know, it's an age-old debate. Nurture, nature, my environment, my mental health, who knows what it could have been. But as a result, my emotions are completely shut down, you know, almost non-existent or very blunted and stunted. And they've been like that from a young age. So I think there must have been a part of me that was on a quest to feel, you know, feel anything. And adrenaline and obviously chemical, you know, reaching for something external to fix the internal problem. I'm sure you've heard that one, was something that worked for me, you know. I can feel very numb, I can feel very baseline. And now, nowadays I can be more comfortable with that, or I can use other more productive things that stimulate me, uh, that are more productive. But back then, I just wanted to feel something. So drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, anything that gave me something, I've I just subconsciously thought, oh, I feel good. You know, I want more, more, more, more, more. And I guess that was part of it. There was there was also anger. So with the personality disorder that people don't really understand, is you you can experience actually anger, frustration, and also the interestingly, the very similar symptoms of addiction, the anger, the restless, the irritability, the discontent, you know, those ones are still prevalent with people with personality disorders. So I think that I was quite angry as well. And I obviously wanted to avoid that. Obviously, the problem with that is uh when you combine that with drugs and alcohol, the anger becomes worse, but it it becomes worse on an outward to other people rather than an internal anger. So on a day-to-day basis, I think I could sometimes definitely feel angry and irritable. And in a sense, the alcohol would alleviate that from me, but then push that burden onto somebody else.

Why Chaos Felt Like Normal

SPEAKER_03 6:43

I'm I'm interested in that in the sense of like normalcy that that you talked about, in in terms of just using drugs, it was just something that you did. Why was that? Because if I if I take myself, for example, who you know probably had a very, a very different upbringing to yourself based on on you know some of your experiences, taking drugs, you know, drinking alcohol, all that thing seems so far removed from normalcy for me. Why do you think those things was normal for you?

SPEAKER_00 7:12

I think it started because my mum and dad were well, my dad was an alcoholic. My mum drunk on and off, but sometimes every day for a long time, you know, they were both drunk. And I didn't really see them as alcoholics, I just saw them as adults that drunk, and I just thought that was normal. So I started drinking young. But it was recreational, I was down the park, it was drinking cider, it was messing around, you know. But you know, the whole gateway thing, then it was weed, and then it was this, that, and the other, and the people that I was spending time with. So I think there was that natural element of kind of progression through sort of slipping down the wrong path and being sort of shown it from a young age and not realizing the the negative impacts of that. But again, it was just I didn't see it really as that bad. That's that's the the biggest problem. And something that I have spoken about as well is again, I don't know if this is my personality, I don't know if this is a disorder. It's very difficult to marry up my version of the world with someone else's and go, do you feel like this or do I feel like this? Is this an addict thing? Is this a psychopath? But all I know is I don't don't like the idea of normal. Like even when I was in the thick of my rock bottom, I would prefer that than a normal life. I remember being in a prison bus, in a sweat box, being a like taken to prison in a tiny little cell in the back of a bus, looking out the window, looking at people walking to work and going, Oh God, I'm glad I'm not them. And that was insane, isn't it? It is, but I was genuinely like, oh God, that must be awful. Sitting there. So I always the thing is, I have this, you know, and this could be seen as grandiose sense of self. I don't know what it is, but there's I've always had this tiny little niggle in the back of my head that two voices actually. One is Lewis, you're here for something big. You just don't, I can't comprehend it. So that was almost a little bit hard to understand. So I would just kind of brush that off. And then there was also the voice that comes from my dad that's you're bad, you're unlovable, you're a buffoon, you're stupid. So that was confusing. But there was this kind of feeling that I say feeling, but this kind of intuition, this something inside saying you're here for something big, but it doesn't matter what. And it was almost like if it was something big but bad, that was okay. If it's something big that was good, that was okay, but it just had to be big. And I remembered I was in rehab, because I sort of did break this thing down, because this seems crazy, right? And I don't know if this was the root cause of it, but it definitely created a something for me. I was talking to a counsellor in rehab and I said, I hate the idea of living a normal life, like, no, I don't want that. Because I remember being in rehab, and I was just saying, like, what'd you do for fun? What'd you do for excitement? And I was thinking, Oh my god, they just sit in church halls. This is looks miserable. I'd think I'd rather be in prison. You know, I didn't realise all the things you could do after, and also the fact that I would enjoy those things because I thought, oh god, what am I gonna do? Jump out a plane. Like that sounds awful. Like I didn't really I haven't done that actually, but the idea of that didn't even sound interesting. But obviously, when you change as a person, different things become appealing. But anyway, I said, I don't like the idea of being normal. And he said, Well, how do you know? I said, I just don't. He said, How do you know if you've never had it?

SPEAKER_03 10:10

It's interesting, isn't it? To kind of spin that back on you.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Yeah, and I thought maybe because because something I have realized in other people when I'm coaching is sometimes people say they don't want something because they think they can't have it. It's easier to explain it, it's it's easier to accept, or you know, it's easier to say, look, I I don't want this. Like actually, a good example of this is a a girlfriend that I'm matched with now, funnily enough. And I don't know why this came up straight away, but the first time I met her, she just randomly told me, I don't want to get married, I don't want to have kids. And I I thought, that's that can't be true. You know, all women want that. I said, That's not true. I said, You do. He's like, No, I don't, trust me, I don't. I said, You just you've you've had some bad relationships, haven't you? She's like, Yeah. I was like, it's easier to tell yourself that, isn't it, than admit that's exactly what you want. And she was like, How do you know that?

SPEAKER_03 10:59

But it's true though, and how many, how many, how many times do we do that? Because then it feels like our choice, doesn't it? It feels like we've got that power over it that we don't want that one, really.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Yeah, and it can that one, yeah. Couldn't you? I mean, oh no, I'd hate to, I wouldn't want to have a business. Oh, that'd be too stressful, not for me. I'd rather have you know, or whatever it might be. It's much much more comfortable to say you don't want it than it is to accept that you do, but know the challenges and the obstacles and the fear and the everything that comes with it, and also the potential of having it and losing it. Yes. You know, what about if you have the the you know the the the woman that wants the the family but also has the fear of someone leaving her or being financially insecure or something like that. There's that that's the double part of it, isn't there? So it's I'd rather not have it than have it and lose it, you know?

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Yeah, I mean I'm just thinking about my my own life experiences there, but I I used to say for the longest time that I never wanted to get married, and and the reason was is deep down I I know now that it was my mum and dad split up after 21 years. Yeah, and my dad used to say things like 21 years wasted, 21 years don't and I was like, Well, I never want to feel like that. So for the longest time I said I never wanted to get married, but I did. I kind of wanted that, you know, that life, and now I've been married for you know seven years, I think. But for I remember for the longest time, I would say I didn't want that because that was easier than thinking I don't ever want to be in the situation that my dad's in. And I could still very much be in that situation one day, but still for the longest time, that was that was my response to it. I I don't want that.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Well, that's you know, I talk a lot about that as well in terms of our the stories we tell ourselves subconsciously, the the beliefs that are formed from our experiences. You know, we're always absorbing information at every moment. We have you know trillions of bits of data coming through our senses at every moment in time, and it doesn't make sense to keep processing that. So from a young age, you'll use the information around you and store it as fact to navigate the world. And if that's your experience, so you you will assume that'll be your own experience. I mean, interestingly, when you said that, it kind of made me think about you know my parents,

Labels And Identity Shape Behaviour

SPEAKER_00 12:56

and I thought, well, actually, they probably did live a normal life, but they didn't have a good one. So who knows? Maybe that is they may maybe that's the thing.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

So just to go back on you mentioned the the word buffoon, but that the book actually opens with you know your father calling you buffoon, and you're right that decades later you can still hear that word you know echoing in your head. It doesn't sound that bad of a word, but it's obviously carried so much weight for yourself. How much of your life have you spent trying to prove your dad wrong?

SPEAKER_00 13:29

That's an interesting question, and that comes with another part that I think I can talk about after, which is how much have I spent trying to prove him right? You know, but I wasn't aware of it when I was younger. I believed him. That's the thing. And just to quickly touch on the whole buffoon thing, I never knew what it meant. But we use, you know, a lot of our communication is non-verbal, right? So it doesn't actually sometimes matter what the word is. The way that my dad would say it to me, I knew it was the worst thing, you know. He'd look at me and go, you buffoon, you know, and I would just be like, you know, and you internalize that. I don't know what that means, but it's bad.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

It's it's just the uh the intimidating turn of voice with it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

And he would do it all the time as well. So enough that I would just and I and I think I knew roughly what it meant, but not quite, but enough to know, you know, I'm stupid. And he would also say you're a stupid, you're an idiot, you're never amount to anything, and all those things. And I didn't think I want to prove you right or wrong, because I just thought, well, that's true. Because what you you look for your, you know, the people around you and your authority figures and your parents to navigate the world, and we do naturally believe them a lot of the time, like you just said, you know. You know, in your scenario, you believed your dad said that was 21 years of wasted marriage, so that's now my view of the world, you know. You that it didn't add in extra weight, he didn't say, Well, I did love during those 20 years, he did have some beautiful children, it was a brilliant experience, you know. You just that one sentence and you you don't have enough time to analyse it, so it gets placed in the brain. So, yeah, he did he did do that, and I thought it was stupid, so I didn't ever try. Again, I did tell you there was that sort of niggling voice in the back of my head that there was something more, but I just couldn't quite understand what that could ever be. And yeah, so proving him right and wrong is a similar thing. So I remember I was in prison, and it was after I'd decided to change my life, and I was in the education department, and I I was 25 years old at this point, and I'd signed up for maths and English, and it was functional skills level one and two, which is the equivalent of about a 10-year-old. And I went in there and I was like a child, so I literally screwed the paper up, threw it, threw it away, like threw it across the room, crossed my arms up, and said, I'm not doing this shit, like a like an idiot. And and then a teacher came up to me, a tutor that was inside prison, and she sat down next to me and she just said, What's the matter? And I actually don't think anyone had ever asked me that before because my mum was very emotionally switched off. No one had ever asked me about my feelings, no one had ever asked me if I was a right or any of the bad behavior ever done. No one actually said, Lewis, what's up, mate? Like, what are you doing that for? No one, I don't know why. I got like punished, but no one ever tried to figure it out. And she said that, and I said, and I just blurted out, I don't understand. But then when I said that, I was confused by what I just said because I thought, how do I know I don't understand? I don't even know what we're teaching, I don't even know what this class is about, I haven't even looked up at the board, I don't even know what we're trying to learn. I've just automatically assumed I can't understand and it's caused this frustration. And it was then that I realized that I don't know how I realized it in that moment, but I realized that it'd come from like my dad because she was really supportive and she supported me, and then I started to learn, and I started to learn quite quickly. So it started off with thinking that he was right, then it started with you know, we'll get onto it later on in life, but even to this day, I do think that I do still try and prove him wrong. But it's a motivation for me. Now, as someone in mindset and personal development and motivation, it's probably not the best thing to advocate for because you know you should always be doing this for yourself, and you shouldn't be doing this to fill some inner void, and you should be doing this to you know be proud of yourself. But motivation is motivation nonetheless, you know. And I mean, I used to have a uh a poster up on my wall that I put up just at when I came out of rehab, and it was Can I swear on it by the way? Yeah, of course. Yeah, okay, yeah, it's cool. And it was sometimes I feel like giving up, and then I remember I've got a lot of motherfuckers to prove wrong, and that done me well because I would, and I would look at it and go, Yeah, I'm gonna prove I'm wrong, you know, and it is to my dad, and even to this day, and I could change that programme and I could really break that down, I think, but at the same time, it's not causing me much distress. Well, it's not causing me any distress. I know that it's not healthy, could I could probably do getting rid of it, but at the same time, it is beneficial because it is still a motivator nonetheless. Because I do want to say fuck you, dad. Yeah, fuck you. Look at you, I'm not stupid, you know. So, yeah, there there's there there is a lot tied to that.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

I th I think I guess really from your experience and and you know, from the experience of maybe peers, or do you know obviously the time that you've spent in prison? Do children become the labels that they're given?

SPEAKER_00 18:12

I mean, I'm a classic example of a label, you know. I mean, everyone tell me I was bad. You know, my dad told me I was bad, I was almost expelled from primary school, I was expelled from sec a secondary school. I had an asbow, anti-social behaviour order. I went to a young offenders institution, court told me I was bad, police told me I was bad, psych psychiatric assessments give me diagnosis you're bad. Everyone around me told me I was bad, so I assumed I was bad. I didn't even assume, I just it was, you know, and bad people do bad things, and that's not a justification, but I really do think that you know identity very much creates up behavior, and then it's self-perpetuating, right? Because bad people do bad things and then they feel like bad people and then do more bad things. So it's so much of it comes back to the identity and the and the label that you're wearing. It doesn't always have to be like necessarily a mental health stigmatized label, but just who you think you are as a person, how you see yourself. And of course, I have had all sorts of labels as well, especially the the sort of mental health ones. They never really affected me though, to be honest. I've never really cared too much about labels because I understand them, you know. If I because the because I don't because I know that you were told that you've done some information but deliberately not fully prepped because you you want to have the juicy conversation, right? But I don't know how much you know and how much of this is a is a surprise. But when I was

Trauma And The Search For Significance

SPEAKER_00 19:33

going for a pre-sentence report, which is because I was arrested for some very violent offences because I was very angry at the world. You know, stepping back a little bit, I never really felt loved. Well, I didn't feel loved. I don't know if that wasn't there or I couldn't receive it or experience it, but there was this internal void, and I sort of associated love to significance in my brain. I can't feel the emotions, but I can understand them intellectually, and I can't think love, but I can think significance. So love to me is significance, and I went looking for that, and I did that in acting, singing, and dancing, which my pet family did provide for practically, they would do that. It was just all emotional nurturing behind the scenes and that sort of thing that wasn't there. And then I was sexually abused there, so that was a trauma. I didn't feel anything of it to be honest, but I know it must have had an imprint. And I went through life looking for this significance, and I did it in various different ways. One of them I found in crime and destruction and violence. It just did give me something, it gave me the attention, it gave me the significance of people talking about me. And I didn't care if they spoke about me, you know, in a good way or a bad way, as long as they were talking about me. Like I liked the publicity of it, and still parts of that still remain true based on what we're talking about today, you know. But I got a release through fighting, to be honest. It wasn't like necessarily just the the release through the the rage, I don't think. It was more I felt powerful. I felt like I'd taken my power back, like I'd lost it for a lot of my life. You know, when my dad used to hit me, I would freeze. When I was sexually abused, I would freeze. I was a small kid. When I grew up, I'd become bigger, and I thought, well, I can fight, and now I'm the powerful one. And now everyone's saying I'm powerful and I like that. And I latched onto that, and I got, you know, I was, you know, I was looking at eight years in prison actually. And I went for this pre-sentence report, and that's a probation, do an analysis of you so they can give you some information to the to the judge to create more of a a well-rounded sentence rather than sort of judging someone on the day. So their background circumstances and things. And when she asked me simple questions like, Do you care you go to prison for eight years? I would just say no. And I didn't. I just didn't. I don't know, I couldn't tell you exactly why, but I just didn't. And I do not care that you've hurt people. No. Cause because a lot of people go into these pre sentence reports and Knowing that they have to behave a certain way. Yeah, but for for me, I just I was on a self-destruct at that time and just didn't care. So I just answered her questions as factually as I could because it's usually my response. It's just you ask me a question, I'm gonna give you an answer. Unless I'm deliberately trying to give them what they want. But in this scenario, I just didn't care. So she said, you know, you don't care that you've hurt people and stuff like that. I said, no, no, no. And she sent me for this psychiatric assessment. And I just thought that was a part of the system, part of the pre-sentence report, but it wasn't. It was actually because she'd noticed something different in me. And I went along with it, and they asked me normal questions, and again, I didn't notice anything different. You know, he asked me about all my crimes, and again, I would just very logically, factually answer the questions. I think when he's he would he would ask me what happened, and I guess you know, most people would I don't know, relate in a in a very simp, you know, sympathetic, remorseful way. But I would decide this and then that and then this, and then I stamped on his head and blah, blah, blah, you know, and then and asked me lots of different questions, and it came back with this antisocial personality disorder. And I just thought, okay, it's it's not right. You've just given me that because you're a goodie two shoes and I'm doing all this bad stuff, but I'm choosing to do it and I'm not crazy. But then I Googled it after and it came up with psychopath. And it turns out that an antisocial personality disorder is actually the clinical diagnosis that you would give someone that is a psychopath, because psychopathic psychopath is not actually a mental health diagnosis, it's a stigmatized label that goes on a more of a cluster of personality disorders and other things like narcissism and other stuff. But I did get those labels, and then I mean mental health has been a really interesting part of my life because I completely just disbrushed that one off. I've just thought whatever. And then I also had this time in my life where I was being very extreme and then and then shutting down and sort of going home for a long time and just sort of sitting inside watching films and stuff, and it did look like bipolar because I would go, right? I just want to, you know, go abroad and work as a rep in Magaloof, and I and then I would do some crazy, like honestly, I can't even tell you, uh swinging from balconies and fighting with a mafia, the Cypriot mafia out there, and just like I was on a I swear I got slashed with a knife and had my teeth knocked out and all sorts of things. It was just I was looking to self-destruct, and then I would just come back from that and then I would just like retreat. So it looked like bipolar, but actually it could have just been the circumstances. But I went to the doctors on this one because I was thinking this is actually going down the wrong path. You know, this is I'm very surprised I'm not still like I'm still alive. And they diagnosed me with bipolar type two and even give me antipsychotic medication for them. And I thought, okay, I'd take those, but then I was all dosed out, and then I had a seizure because I have also have epilepsy because of the drink. So I thought, I'm not taking them, and then I brushed that one off as well. I was like, okay, well that one didn't work, I didn't get the pills that I needed, and you know, whatever. And then I went to prison a couple of times later, and then inside prison they diagnosed me with an emotionally unstable personality disorder. So I was thinking three people diagnosed me with three different things, they're either all right, and I've got three, or they're all wrong, or one of them's right. So yeah, I very much had those labels, but I never let it define me.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

Do you see yourself as someone who has all those three labels, or have you kind of come to the conclusion yourself that you only have one of them that actually fits more in terms of the the way you're thinking?

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Well, this one's a complicated one, but definitely not the bipolar. I think that was a product of my circumstances. The emotional unstable personality disorder, no, I've looked into that. I really don't know how that came about. It's people that can have like emotional outbursts, but mine are typically rage rather than anything else. I won't have anything else other than that. The antisocial personality disorder was really interesting because for 10 years I just thought, oh, I got diagnosed with that once, you know, and it was on my care plan when I went into rehab, but it was like, oh, I forgot about that. And they had all my background information, it was like, you know, dual diagnosis, you know, and it's like they treated me differently because I'm mental and things. But then what was bizarre is because we will talk about it, but I transformed my life dramatically, moved away from my friends and family, moved down to this, you know, rehab away from everything, changed my thinking, completely reinvented myself. But it was when I was sort of going back through education, getting into business, things like that, I thought I'm still very different to other people, even though my behavior is good and I'm not symptomatically

Diagnoses And The Psychopath Label

SPEAKER_00 26:28

displaying the really negative parts of those disorders. When I actually look at the sort of person I am and the way that I operate, it's still different. And then when I looked at the sort of check marks of this antisocial personality disorder, it was actually still there. But the big thing of what I'd love to talk about today, which is a big part of this book, is understanding that a lot of people stigmatise even those negative traits. Because all of those traits have been a massive advantage to me. And I could list them all off, and it would be interesting to go on to them. Because you'd think that if you were a diagnosed psychopath, which you know, and I've also done the psychopath checklist because there was a documentary, I mean a documentary about me on Netflix, the psychopath life coach. And twice now I've done the I've had someone do the psychopath checklist with me, which is the closest thing that Robert Hare created it, the closest thing you can be done to being diagnosed with one. And I meet the criteria. So, you know, as far as someone's book or checklist as goes, yeah, I'm diagnosed with it. But you know, you've got to think about these labels, they're just a way to categorize a certain cluster of people, but we're so different, everyone's so different, and everything's on a spectrum. Everyone is neurodiverse in some way, you know. There's no neurotypical people, you know, it's there's everyone is different. You know, you've got empaths, which are these people that are extremely consumed by emotion, that they break down on a day-to-day basis, that hear a piece of music and can't stop choking up about it for three days. And then you've got people that could kill someone and laugh about it. Now, I'm not saying that I'm anywhere near that, but there's somewhere, you know, somewhere along that line where emotions, empathy don't hit me in the same way. Yeah. I'm logical, I can take risks, I don't have a fear response. I can be well, let me tell you about the the the pros and the cons of it. So the con of one of them, whatever they say the the negative trait can be a grandiose sense of self. Now I think there's a very thin line between that and just being confident, yeah. Right? And actually, you know, a lot of people teach to be confident. So if you've inherently got something that people are striving to learn.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Well the confidence is funny because people want you to be confident, but if you're too confident, you're egotistical and you're saying, where is this line in which I can I can sit?

SPEAKER_00 28:49

So that's such a good thing about it. Is like there is a line and there is this blurred line, and a lot of people suppressing their innate gifts because they think they're bad. When actually, if you just slightly tip them over to the other end of the scale, you realize you can use them to your advantage. It's turning adversity into an asset. Yeah, it's integrating all parts of ourselves so we become whole because the majority of you could be some negative things, but if you're suppressing it all, then you're not using much of yourself. So I've used these negative things for good. So grandiose sense of self, okay. Well, that means I believe in myself and I think I can do things better than some, and I'm confident in my ability. Brilliant, okay. Well, I'll use that. There's manipulation as a part of it as well. I see that as persuasion. It only can only be the positive, though, if you have the awareness around yourself and you have good intentions. Before, I would have been doing this on autopilot and I would have been doing it in the wrong way. I would have been manipulating people to sell drugs for me, all sorts of things. But if you can know the intention, the only difference between manipulation and persuasion is the outcome. If you're manipulating somebody to do something, if you're persuading someone to do something that's beneficial for them, then it's then it's good. If you're manipulating someone to do something that's harmful for them or beneficial for you, then it's bad. But I will manipulate people into believing in themselves and thinking everything's possible, anything's possible. So you can manipulate people for for good. In a positive way, yeah. Because marketing is manipulation.

SPEAKER_03 30:07

Yeah, yeah, every every advert you see is is manipulation somewhere, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

And it's a good thing, and apparently learning marketing is a good thing. So and then you just just quickly to reel them off though, just so then you then you've got risk, impulsivity is the ability to take risks, uh, lack of fear is bravery, lack of empathy can mean that you can overcompensate and be more strategically thinking, just strategically thoughtful. And there's there's many others, but every single one can be channelled into a good good thing.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

I suppose thinking about things being double-edged, looking at the labels, the psychopath one, like if I was to take two labels, being called a buffoon and being called a psychopath, I think I'd prefer the buffoon. The buffoon seems to have a lot more weight than the psychopath did. Thinking about how you have been labelled throughout your life, what are the differences between those two in terms of how you interpret them and how you feel about them?

SPEAKER_00 31:07

The timeline, the difference between who I was, if you know, if someone called me buffoon now, it I wouldn't care. I wouldn't care at all. It was only because it was coming from my dad, and I internalized that as something deeply rootly wrong with me, that it that it had any weight. I practiced radical authenticity. It started small, it started in rehab actually. For the first time, I shared my story for the first time, and it was and then I realized that okay, these bad things aren't too too bad because it helps me connect with people, and vulnerability is actually a way of having some mutual connection and things like that. And and then I sort of edged more and more and more to the point where I actually

Turning Dark Traits Into Strengths

SPEAKER_00 31:43

got to the point where I'm just happy to be who I am, and I and some people won't like it, and then some people love it though, because it's like you know, the cheesy quote is you put out your vibe, you'll attract your tribe. And it's so true, it's like the people that will know me. If if I I mean the psychopath is a sensationalized label that's associated to it, of course, and you will only ever think of the you know the serial killers, okay? But they're like the tiny percentage, yeah, 100%. It's because like let's talk about serial killers because it's obviously what everyone thinks. Because I've did a video recently, hundreds of thousands of views, thousands of comments, everyone's saying this guy's a liar, it's not a psychopath. Uh, and look, I'm not point blank sitting here saying I am one, I'm saying I meet the criteria, I've been diagnosed with it. I don't care if I'm I am or not, because I'm me. You know, if you want to put me in that bucket, we'll talk about it. But anyway, the thing reason why they say I'm a liar is because they don't know what one is. They really don't know what one is.

SPEAKER_03 32:33

I mean, I'll be honest, when I heard that if you know, prior to this conversation, prior to the information that you've just given me, if if someone says psychopath to me, I'm instantly thinking, oh, serial killers, do you madmen sort of thing?

SPEAKER_00 32:45

But those people that do that, they've got a combination of things. Usually they're very deeply traumatized and have a very angry view towards the world, and they're looking for revenge in some respect, right? And they are just completely dysfunctional humans because of for whatever reason, combine that with psychopathy, you've got the combination to create someone that could. Because I'll be honest with you, like I I have the ability to be violent. I have the ability to not I I want to be careful because I don't want to come across in the worst light with also being honest. But put it this way: if I was in the military or a surgeon or a politician, I could make the decisions to go to war. I could I could I could I could do a heart transplant for the greater strategic thinking that you're talking about. Yeah, it's like I I can logically make a decision as long as it's for the good, I would be okay with doing it. Yeah. And if things did go wrong, I'd be okay with that as well. So these people have the ability to do it, and when they're angry, because there's a lot of people that would probably like, you know, hate their ex. You know, like I'm let's use a female hating their male ex so it doesn't get too too uh difficult in the comments. But if there was a female that's like, I absolutely hate my ex, she there's probably a time it's crossed her mind, I'd love to kill him, like I'd love to get rid of him, yeah, but then they're completely obviously consumed by the fact that they wouldn't be able to do that and what they have with their hair, what they feel. And they're just certain people that don't feel that as acutely. And if you're a dysfunctional and you're fully unaware of who you are as a person, then you can let that run the show and you do terrible things. I'm I've worked on myself so much now that I've compensated for all of my emotions logically. And this is the thing that people really can't understand. I am don't do not have a lack of empathy, I have a lap lack of visceral felt sense empathy. Like I will never get choked up, I will never feel anything in my gut, but I will think it. Yeah. You know, I can think like that's bad, that's wrong, that's sad, I want to help that person. And I do care. I just don't feel it. So yeah, it's a complicated it is a complicated one.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

I going back to I mean the substance misuse. You you've talked about your childhood that you talk about the you know the the abuse that that you face. Most people would maybe look at if we were to take those things of of the the childhood, the the sexual abuse that you face, and the substance misuse, people would think of the substance misuse as the escapism, but you said earlier that wasn't the case and that was the normalcy. Let's let's let's unpick it just a little bit more, do you know, because I think really that's kind of what I would be thinking. If you were to lose yourself in substances, in some way that's trying to I I mean, I suppose you talk about it in your book, don't you? Do you know about like the escapism and and what purpose is that serving you?

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Yeah, it's difficult because it's I mean, I'd I'd love to be able to say drugs was because of this, you know, and if we could be able to pin if it'd be so easy if you were to pinpoint. It'd be a day long, wouldn't it? Like, right guys, one thing you need to figure out. Yeah. It's like it was a it was a storm, it was a combination. It was a it was a it was a quest to feel, and it was a quest, it was a contradiction quest to numb at the same time, you know. It was a quest to feel something because I felt so numb, but it was also a quest to numb the things that I did feel or I didn't want.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

It's like got around in a bit of a circle, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 36:03

And um, but also I yeah, I like the chaos as well. I was on a self-sabotage, it was the environment. Yeah, it's a very difficult, difficult one to know how that kind of progressed. And and and also there was an element of the the lifestyle of selling the drugs and things like that that sort of fed

The Prison Mirror Responsibility Moment

SPEAKER_00 36:21

into the sort of power and the significance. Like I'd found something that I could do, you know. I had my friends, I was selling drugs, I was making money, and I was like, you know, my life is better like this than having not having it. Yeah, you know. So yeah, it's a it's a difficult one to pinpoint exactly the root cause of it. I think it was a combination of a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

I think one of the parts that about the book that I found interesting was when you described standing in front of the the scratch prison mirror, and this was your your third prison sentence as well, and realizing that the the common denominator in all the chaos was yourself. You know, we we've got that you you describe hearing a voice in your head repeating that it's you, it's you, and I think what's interesting about that is often when people are struggling with drug addiction, it has to be everybody else's fault. They don't like to look internally and believe that you know this is happening because of me. But but you've got to that point. But what I'm interested in is what was different about that time to all the other times before? Yeah, how come it took so long to realise that it's you?

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

I mean, first of all, it's it's it's kind of like we were talking about earlier. It's easy to accept that you don't want something than it is to you know admit that you do, but it's difficult to get it's kind of similar, it's easy to play the blame game. Of course, yeah. It's easy to blame everything and everyone around us for why this why we are where we are, because then we don't take responsibility and we don't have to go through the discomfort of actually you know working on it or you know admitting that we're at fault. But it all happens subconsciously, that's the thing. So I was completely unaware. I'd never once thought I could change what I was the problem. You know, it's kind of new, I kinda guess I knew my life was not going on the right track, but it was just a I guess a weird element of I guess that I thought that I was in control of some parts and the other parts were you know what had happened to me, and but I just didn't think that I could change it or I was the the real cause of it. Because just because something happens to you doesn't mean to say you have to let it negatively impact you like that. In my mind, it's like well, this, this, and this has happened because other things had happened. Like I walked in and found my dad dead at one point as well. So there was other traumas. I yeah, I this is uh gonna sound extreme, but I you know, I slipped my it sounds when I say slip my throat, sounds more extreme than it is, but I will show the the the the scars this time because the amount of people in the comments that say there's no scars because they're very light because it was 20 years ago. But I uh I had my first girlfriend, and it was the first time where I'd felt like maybe I wasn't this bad person I was, and then she told me she cheated on me, and I just went berserk, smashed the kitchen up, knife fell on the floor, and I picked it up and just went and just slipped my own throat. Obviously, only clipped it, but it was clipped an artery, and and I got sectioned under the Mental Health Act. So, anyway, I had had these traumas. Actually, where were we going with that?

SPEAKER_03 39:08

Can you remember just about why why why it was so difficult for that for that time?

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Yeah, so I think when you when these things happen, it's easy to say, well, I'm written off now. Yeah you know, these things have happened to me, they haven't happened to you. It's gonna be very difficult to change that. But I didn't think I could change myself. Even my mum said, We all know you're not gonna make old bones, Lewis. She's she'd written me off, she'd accepted you're gonna die young. Because I had been, you know, you mentioned in the beginning, like hospital admission, it wasn't one. I mean, that was one I might have mentioned, but it was hundreds. Like I'd wake up mo like not most, that's an exaggeration, but quite often, I'd say once every two weeks, I'd wake up and there would be an ECG sticker on the back of my neck. And I'd pull it up and think, I don't even remember going to hospital, but I'd been there for something. Like uh it was crazy, I was in there all the time. Broken jaws, like yeah, just all sorts of crazy stuff. But um, it was easy to blame everything and everyone around me. And this time was different because something did happen, and I'll share that. But also, I just think it might have been the exact right time. You know, sometimes there's this perfect moment, and it happened, they these breakthrough moments, these epiphany moments, they they do happen, but a lot of people dismiss them. And you've got to grab it and run with it. And that's exactly what I did, luckily, because I have always had this very, you know, addictive personality. And I luckily you know grabbed on to this addiction of I'm gonna change myself. So what happened was I went to prison for this third time. I rang up my friends and said, What are they saying about me? Because again, feeding my ego, my significance. I I actually wanted to know what people were saying. Oh, loose gone to prison. Oh, yeah. It's warped, but it's it was the only thing I had available to me. And they said you're on the front page of the paper, and I was kind of happy about it. You know, thug, borish and violent was another one. Didn't even know what borish meant. Apparently, it was something to do with what it is, something to do with a pig.

SPEAKER_03 40:59

Sounded good though for the year. Yeah, I was like boring, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

But then they said my friend posted a picture out of a picture of you outside the courtroom the day you were sentenced, and a picture of you seven years before outside the exact same courtroom with the caption above it, nothing changes. And it was just strange because it had come from my friend who was like just about equally as bad as me. And I've heard I've heard things from other people before, and I kind of brushed off it because it came from him, it kind of got me thinking about it. And I kind of thought, I didn't think, oh, I want to change, but I just thought, actually, he is right, nothing has changed. And I thought I am back in prison at 24 or 25, and I am, you know, as you would have heard now, doing the same things over and over again, expecting a different result. You know, I didn't have the vocabulary to attach it to that point, but that was kind of what was going through my mind. I was like, oh no, although, you know, I think I'm in control and I'm making these choices, I definitely didn't make this choice, and I am here, and seven years have gone by. And it was kind of like, oh, you know, it's gonna be another seven years. So I went back to my prison cell and I looked at myself in the prison mirror, which is just a piece of metal. You can't even actually see yourself because it's they can't give you mirrors in case you shank people with it and stuff, right? So it's a bit of metal, but you can get a glimmer, and it's it sounds like a story, but it's the truth. And but I looked at myself and I could actually see myself. It was like the first real reflection in a raw reflection because I was really looking, even though it was just like this little glimmer. And I just realized that I was the problem, you know, it was me. Because yeah, okay, it wasn't my fault that those things happened. Yeah, ideally they wouldn't have happened, but it's actually my responsibility if I want to fix them, you know. And I realized if I was the problem, then I'm also the solution. And then it's and when I say that, people go, well, yeah, of course. And even like now I go, how did I not know I was the problem? But for me at that moment it was a revelation. It's like, oh, I can change. Like I because I change to me was I I won't drink whiskey anymore because that's gonna be the thing that gets me angry, or I'll take cocaine only on the weekends, or I won't fight in the in town because they've got CCD cameras, I only fight in the pub car parks, you know. That was change to me.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

Trying to make like mitigation to the circumstance of what you're gonna do, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

But I thought that's all changed was. I didn't think you could change the person you were. I didn't even know, I'd never read a personal book, never heard of a you know, that personal development didn't exist. So when I I yeah, the concept of changing yourself, I didn't even know you could do it. I thought you were who you were, and that is that. But then when I kind of got it, because I have this addictive personality and this kind of kind of warped, I guess, even grandiose sense of self then, biting an arrogant, sort of warped. It's so hard to explain. But I'll tell you what went through my head. It went fantasy land of I can change my name, I can move abroad, no one will know me, I can get with some wealthy girl, and she can invite me into her family, and I can start not like a conmat, but like just reinvent. And I just like fantasized about that. And but that got me through to. To write, I'm going to sign up for a wrapped program. I don't know if you've heard of that, but it's Rehabilitation of Addictive Prisoners Trust Inside Prison. I did maths and English and gym and did all these things, and I started to notice some changes, and that was motivational, and I just wanted more and more and more. The wrapped program was eye-opening, so it was six weeks, but it was basic, but it was just enough to not push me away from it, but realize there was something in it. It started off with them literally passing pieces of paper. Well, first of all, they'd say, How do you feel? And then you go around in a circle, and everyone would just say, I'm alright. I'm alright, I'm alright. And someone would say, I'm hungry. And then they give you a bit of paper, and then you've got to look at the feelings, and you've got to go, I'll guess I'm Yeah, I'm a bit frustrated. That's how like emotionally stunted the prison population are and then it introduced a bit more personal development. And I was seeing a lot of progress as well as in the maths and English and everything I was doing. And I was getting about to be released after nine months, and a guest speaker came in to the RAPT program from a rehab and spoke about this opportunity to go to rehab, and it was a £20,000 six months thing that was paid for by the government, but only a few spots available. And I was convinced that I wouldn't get it because I wasn't mad. I wasn't mad enough for that, they're not gonna accept me, you know. But I realised I needed to keep working on myself because actually during one of these maths in English tests, because you can actually do like qualifications in prison, and I did do a qualification maths in English in that time, just before the test, I punched a wall and I thought, why did I do that? And it was because I was scared of proving my dad right. But I did actually go to the hospital because there wasn't a hospital inside the prison. So I had to go to literally get in a cab with two officers and they take me to the hospital. And when they was doing when they was going to the hospital, they drove past my area. And the moment I was in my area, I just I just felt this like everything had gone, like all my changes, all my progress had gone. I was ready just to jump out of that cab and go straight into the pub and just do everything all over again. I just knew it, I knew it. Because it's like these two different environments that felt so different. It was like I left one and just went back to you know nine months ago. So I knew I had to apply for this rehab, and I got in, and they picked me up from the prison gates and took me straight down to the rehab, and the next part of the journey started.

SPEAKER_03 46:28

To be fair, what I guess really looking at this now then is this idea that you you say it in the book that you don't deserve it, but you will fix it.

Rehab And Nobody Is Coming

SPEAKER_03 46:40

That's a really powerful distinction because I think it acknowledges what happened to you without letting it define you. How did you learn the difference between understanding all of this trauma that you've carried and taking responsibility for this future that you are now planning as well?

SPEAKER_00 46:56

Sorry, the exact question again.

SPEAKER_03 46:58

Sorry, so is it how I guess understanding the differences between obviously the the the trauma of the past but taking responsibility for the future, starting clean in the sense of I guess does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 47:11

It doesn't I know what you mean. To be honest, I never really I'm a little bit different to others in the sense where I didn't really ever feel that trauma, and I know it's crazy, but I just Well it comes back to the the diagnosis. Yeah, so I I I was never like hurting inside. Yeah, it it was it there was a bit of a resentment for my dad, uh, and I think you know they say that resentments keep you sick. I'm sure you've heard of that one. And it was more of in the moment, the realization that I wasn't that it was my responsibility. It was like it shifted. It wasn't like I now need to process everything and put this trauma to one side for a minute and everything like that. It was just a realization and an excitement, actually. It wasn't like, oh God, I've got the problem, I'm gonna have to solve this now. It was like, oh, hang on a minute, like I'm the one that can fix this. Like, let's do it. Like, this is a new chapter, this is a new challenge. And I just ran with it. Because, like I mentioned, I had that addictive personality, so I just immersed myself into it. I started reading the blue book in prison. I went to meetings, and actually, the blue book, you know, the you know, the Alcoholics Anonymous book, that was a game changer for me. That to this day, that was the most powerful personal development book I've ever read. Yeah. Because I just I was just reading myself in a book. I just couldn't believe it. I was just like, what the is this is just me, every single part of it. You know, and I think the problem with addicts is they feel before they like meet community or you know, meet other other addicts and share about it openly, they do feel like they're the they're different from everybody else. I felt different from everybody else. And then when I was reading this book that was literally like just describing me and the way that I thought about things and addiction and stuff, I thought, oh my god, well, if they're all like me and then they've all got recovery, then I've they've got some hope here. So yeah, I mean, I just I just ran with it and sort of saw it as a an exciting chapter.

SPEAKER_03 48:56

What one of the things as well is is that idea, and and this is what you're talking about now, is nobody is coming to save you. I think that is so important for people to hear because in a weird way, I think I spent I always look at life as as you know, in some way you're you're on this path of school, primary school, secondary school, you might go to college, you might go to university, and then you just come to the end of this road, and I feel like life in some way is almost presented to you in steps, and you get to this point, and I remember getting to that point myself where I thought, why where is what am I supposed to do? What's gonna happen now? It's scary, but at the same time, it's empowering to think that nobody is coming to save you. Talk to me about that because that is a massive thing that that is that is you know featured in this book. Nobody's coming to save you.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Yeah, I mean, I didn't I just thought of something there. Actually, I think I might see it on Instagram, I can't claim it. But I think it's like the most empowering thing about realizing actually this sounds so cheesy, but it's the clan that I can remember it. The best thing about realizing no one's coming to save you is realizing that you can be the hero. Because yeah, you get to you get to be the person that you've always needed. You get to be the person that's gonna you're gonna be proud of. But yeah, a lot of people are waiting for that magic moment, they are waiting for something something to be presented to them. They're wet they're hoping, wishing, praying for that moment where things just resolve themselves, but they they a lot of the time, most of the time, almost never do.

SPEAKER_03 50:23

One of the things as well is is the

The Black Dot Reframing Trauma

SPEAKER_03 50:25

black dot. Talk to me about the black dot. Yeah. Because you argue that people become obsessed with their traumas and their mistakes. And working in a drug and alcohol treatment service, we see that a lot.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

Yeah, this is huge. This is probably the biggest concept of the book, you know. The whole turning adversity into an asset, just to kind of explain it, is adversity is obviously something negative that's either happened. It could be happened to you, or it could be that you've done, or it could be the person you think you are. And how can you turn that into an asset being something good, something you can actually use, not just something you can get through, not something you can just accept, but something you can actually be grateful for, which is which is a whole different level of transformation. Because a lot of people that they do go to treatment or therapy to just remove the bad things rather than you know transmuting them for good and actually coming out better than where they not not get into baseline enhancing. So the black dot is the analogy that if you have a white piece of paper and there is a black dot in the middle of the piece of paper, a lot of people will scrunch that paper and throw it away. And if they don't, they'll fixate on that that black dot, you know, and the perfectionism will be like, Well, I'm never gonna do anything beautiful on this page because it's already ruined. But really, if you zoom out and you see the entire page, it's just a tiny black dot, and it's it's just a small part of a bigger picture, and only you know, it's it actually only makes sense because of that dot, otherwise it would just be a blank screen. And it's just about learning to accept that the black dot's there, but knowing that you still have the rest of the white space and the opportunity around it, which is obviously vastly huge in comparison to this small, tiny black dot, but everyone will fixate on it, and then there's the the kind of extra added layer of because I did a TEDx talk on this and it was called Turning a Black Dot White, and it and the actual theme of the TEDx talk was Event Horizon, which was Einstein's theory of the space around the black hole. So I mean, I'm not crazy academic in that world, but I thought, hmm, how can I spin this into a personal development story? But I had this black dot concept, and from a bit of research, a lot of astrophysic astrophysicists believe that the black hole isn't actually the end, it's a port it can be a portal to something new. So, what about if this black dot on the middle of the page isn't something to run from, isn't something to hide from, isn't it? And I can tell you from experience, it's exactly what I did. I looked at all my past, all the bad things I'd done. I thought, people, I've been in prison. I've done some horrible things to people. I've got a lack of emotion, people think I'm cruel and heartless. You know, I I you know I've spent my whole life thinking I was stupid. I've got nothing to my name. I'm 25 years old and I'm coming out of prison with a 50-pound discharge grant. I'm fucked. But actually, they've turned out to be the story that's got me on this podcast to write a book, to speak on stage, to help millions of people. They've ended up becoming every every part of it I'm grateful for. You know, they've turned me into the person I am, they've made me force myself to work through those blocks to the point where I'm a stronger person. They've given me the gift of helping other people through those same uh scenarios. They've they've allowed me to miss the normal life that I didn't want, you know, because through having to, you know, drastically shift everything, I've sort of pushed through that normality into you know a life it's so cheesy, but a life in my wildest dreams, right? In terms of I never thought that I could do this. But because I say when you get to like rock bottom, you have the luxury of working on yourself. Because most people day to day, life is okay, life is normal. There's no reason to read personal development book, there's no reason to do a course, there's no reason to go to rehab. Rehab is the best, best personal development, transformational experience you'll ever have. Yeah, you know. Forget the drugs and alcohol. I mean, in my treatment center specifically, they barely spoke about it. I I thought that's what it was gonna be about, but it's not, it's about learning about yourself and why you're doing it and just developing as a person. And you come out there feeling like your head's been emptied and you're completely new, but you only get the luxury of doing that when things get bad. So, again, if you've got the black dot, it means that you're gonna be able to have the luxury of being able to then use the white space because normal people they're just using the center, they might not have the black dot, but they're still only using the center of that page. Whereas if you can really focus on everything that you have, you can integrate everything into a whole.

SPEAKER_03 54:56

Well, when did you when did you stop seeing yourself as that black dot? And is there a correlation? I mean, one of the things that we like to explore in this podcast is individuals' rock bottom moments as well. Is there a correlation between your rock bottom moment and the when you stopped seeing yourself as the as this black dot metaphorically?

SPEAKER_00 55:12

I mean, I know I used the example of rock bottom moment there. For me, I didn't really have that rock bottom moment, I'll be honest, because I'm so extreme, I think I could have gone lower. Yeah, to be honest. I think I was quite lucky to get out where I did. I was like on that escalator going down, as they say, and I was like, it was going out in the basement, and I was like, no fucking out.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

That's incredible after like three prison sentences, the diagnosis, and all that sort of thing. Obviously, the the throat slitting. I mean, a lot a lot of people is a rock, yeah. Yeah, you know, they'd hit they'd think that is but I this is the thing that we we love to explore how subjective the rock bottom is. Yeah. Because I've heard people's rock bottoms where I've thought, I've had worse days than that.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

I've had worse weekends, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:51

Yeah, do you know what I mean? And then for other people, that was the thing that I've got to change my life around. So it's it's always interesting looking at it from a subjective point. But yeah, but when when did you when did you stop seeing yourself as this as this black dot?

SPEAKER_00 56:02

I mean, it I can't say everything all clicked into place, it was a progression, and it still is now. Like everything is clicking, clicking, clicking, you know, it's embracing more and more and more. Like I'm I I talk about radical authenticity becoming more and more of who you are. And 10 years from now, I'm gonna look back on myself now and go, fucking hell, I wasn't that wasn't even me then, you know. But I was getting there. Because you know, I I do think, you know, it's a bit cheesy, but I do think there's an element of rebirth when you go through recovery because you're stripping back all this layers of who you're not and you're going back to who you are. So you're starting from scratch, and that's really uncomfortable for a lot of people. I I found it really challenging in those early stages. I looked in the mirror when I was dressing differently, and I thought, I thought, you who the fuck are you? Like you sell out. Like I would literally say that to myself, like, and I'd get be disgusted at the look of myself, and I was thinking, what am I doing? And and it was a really conflicting battle between who's the real me? Is it the person I was or is it the person I'm becoming? And it's that limbo moment was hard. But when you push through it, you realize, oh, okay, this is me. Actually, there was a moment in rehab that was really powerful for me because I would have these battles with myself and I'd go, What the f am I doing in here? Like, I shouldn't be in here, like what have I done? And I realized I had these two voices that were like one cheering me on, one was trying to drag me back. So I wrote myself a note. I said, Two Lewis, this is the real you. Keep doing what you're doing, you're doing the right thing, keep going. This two shall pass, which I learned it rehearsal.

SPEAKER_03 57:25

I love this two shall pass.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

Yeah. Love the real Lewis. And when I had that battle with myself, I just look up at that note and be like, oh yeah, okay. And then after a while, and then I'd go and sign it after I had the battle. And then after a while, the covered in signatures, and then I realised I didn't need to look at the note anymore. But anyway, the the point I'm making is I was evolving. You know, the reason I call it personal development is because it's development, right? It's developing. And even over the more recent years, you know, with the documentary coming out about the psychopathy and me going, do you know what? Yeah, I am actually a bit like that. I am a bit manipulative, I am a bit, you know, I can do those things. And being okay with it and getting the backlash and you know, absorbing that and being like, okay, that's okay as well. It's like I'm learning more and more about myself and caring less about other people and and sort of, yeah. I I can't say there's these define there are defining moments, but it's just it's a journey, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 58:12

This is it. I think we do

Relapse Honesty And Replacement Habits

SPEAKER_03 58:13

like to try and look at the world in these black and white ways or to have these defining moments. But I think one of the things that I really liked in the book was when you talk about addiction, you use like almost like a Photoshop metaphor of transparency. So think about the trick and craving, replace it with a healthier thought. So, for instance, if you're thinking about alcohol, think about an apple juice and then imagine it. And you talked about these layers and the transparency, and but there's something in that as well. In in the same way that you could slow the transparency down from that one image to the other. That in a way is kind of what life is like in terms of how we progress as people, it isn't the definitive point. It's not like you go uh Photoshop as much instead of it. Yeah, it's it's it's it's really it was a really nice metaphor to look at.

SPEAKER_00 58:55

And something I want to share because I'm all about this. I'm about radical authenticity. I am not perfect. I'm I have my flaws, I'm getting better, but I don't want to be perfect as well. I mean, you're sure you've seen the Stephen Butler thing recently about three three drinks ruined his life. I mean, three years of cocaine didn't ruin my life. I was on a great time, but I had more than three years, but anyway, I uh I've relapsed a few times, and I I don't and I don't want people to think that that has to be their journey because I know that I remember sitting in the rooms and the people said, Oh yeah, because they're justifying their relapse. You gotta have your first relapse. Yeah, it is no, it's not, it's not. I don't think it was at all. It's just it crept up on me. You know, I kind of thought, oh, maybe I'm all right now, you know, maybe my life is different. I wonder what would happen. I flirted with it, and I tell I can tell anyone listening to this, you can't. No matter how many. I'm I'm apparently a personal development expert at some point, and I've been sober for six years, not a drop, no drugs, no nothing. I wouldn't even drink, uh, wouldn't even have a mince pie because of the sherry that I thought could have been in it. I was so I was told jails, institutions, and death. Yeah. And I was like, I'm gonna live by that because I'm black and white, I'm extreme, I'm going all in. And then I flirted with it, and it was all right. I thought, oh, I have to have a drink. Oh, actually, I'm alright. I can have one. So I'll have two or three, actually. And then a couple of days I haven't had one. Oh, I must be alright now. And then oh, I've got drunk. But that was all right. I didn't actually beat someone up that night, and then oh, I've got drunk again. Now I'm drinking every day. Oh shit. You know, so and I've tried that probably three times to be honest. And look, we don't have to have it perfect. I think a lot of people I remember being in rehab thinking about crazy things like, but what about when I get married? I won't even have a glass of champagne. Who I mean, who gives a shit about something? But your brain thinks about those things. I think at the end of the day, for me, I don't want anyone to be looking at a perfect example of recovery and thinking that's what they have to strive for. It can get messy, it is trial, it can be trial and error. There can be some things you replace it for. I'm an obsessive workaholic. I would, I don't know what I'd do if I went working. Like I I wake up and work and go to bed working, and that is my new thing. So I'm not fully fixed.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:02

I I Of course, yeah, because this is the thing of addiction, isn't it? So many people will replace one thing with another. Now, I would argue it's much healthier for you to be a workaholic than someone who's smashing in cocaine. Do you know what I mean? It's the lesser of the of the two easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:15

And I'll be honest, I've picked up a vape, right? And I've got a chapter. How about this for authenticity, guys? I've got a chapter on here about obliterating your habits, yet sometimes I'll vape. Because at the end of the day, I wish I don't want to vape, and I could 100% stop it, and I have. And every now and again I'll pick it up and have a bit because I'm like, do you know what? If I pick up that vape and I have a bit of that because of hands here, and I don't pick up a cocaine. There you go. I think that's okay. It's like nice true. We don't want to be Stephen Bartlett. Of course, yeah. We don't have to be Stephen Bartlett. Of course, yeah. We can be a better version of who we were, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

What would what would you say now to thinking about? I mean, I mean, how old are you now, Lewis? 36. 36. So thinking, you know, what's changed in the last 11 years, what would you say to to 25-year-old Lewis now?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:01

I mean, I'd like him to know what's possible because if I you know, the the earlier, the earlier I would have well at that point obviously I started to change, but maybe an earlier version, like an 18 or a 16-year-old, I'd like to him have known what was possible for him because I had no aspirations. When I left, I I got expelled from 15, but as 16 we were allowed to leave back then. And I remember, of course, there were some people that went to six form, some people that went to college and to go to uni, and then there were some people that just left. I never once thought which one should I do. I just assumed, of course, I will leave when I'm 16 because that's for them, that's not for me. I just didn't have any concept of any capabilities, what was possible for me. I was living in a a village outside Watford, just outside sort of north of London, and everyone was kind of doing their own thing, no one was breaking

Dad’s Legacy Book Plug Quickfire

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

away and doing anything special. So I had no aspirations or any sort of positive influence. So I'd want them to know I'd want him to know what is possible, you know. I'd also want him to know that he's not bad, because that identity obviously really tripped me up. And I'd also want to tell him that it's gonna be okay. And I would but but in but in all of that, I would if I'm honest, you know what I would you know what I would say? Absolutely nothing. Because it's exactly where I was supposed to go. It it it ended up where it needed to be. I'm grateful for all those experiences. I wouldn't go back and change any of them, you know. The whole butterfly effect if I changed that, then yeah, okay, I might not have done those things, but then I wouldn't have done these things. And the impact and the ripple effect that I've had, I feel, is more positive than the negative things that I've done now. You know, I've I feel like I've made up for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:38

Yeah, and um I I mean to be fair, that would have been a really nice place to end it, but I want to forgive myself if I don't ask this because we did talk about your your your father early on. Did you see your father's passed away? No, yeah. See, I wanted to explore what that relationship was like. Did he get to see you now you were you know clean, sober? Nah. So I make you how does that make you feel that he never got to see this version of you?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

Yeah, it's an interesting one because I've still kind of got the the old limiting beliefs of who what our relationship was. And my dad would always put me down. So part of me thinks he would go No, you just a fucking attention-seeking bloody con man, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

So there'd be some there'd still be some negative.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:20

I think it would be hard to deny at this point. So I would love to think, you know, he would be proud of me. I don't I wouldn't know what that would ever be like because I never had that. But yeah, I've had I've done some like extensive breath work and stuff where I've actually had some kind of altered state experiences where we've almost had conversations before, which is similar. So yeah, I've had a bit of you know, conversation, not you know, not with him, but with like some version of myself, which has been helpful, but who knows?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:46

So, Lewis, today we've spoken a lot about your book. If people were interested in picking this up, how do they find it and why should they pick this book up as well?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

So it's taken me five years to write. It's published by Penguin Random House, which is a big deal. They've really supported me to make this book as good as it possibly can be. It's called Unlimited, Turn Your Adversity into an Asset. It covers a lot of ground, you know. Obviously, my whole transformation is very much story-based, but it's got a lot of lessons. You know, you mentioned there during this interview about the transparency of pulling up the layers of Photoshop. So there is tangible tools and techniques you can use to change your habits, to change your identity, to break down limited beliefs, to push through fear, to take imperfect action, to embrace your shadow self, which are these shadowy dark parts of our trait, our personality traits that we suppress and deny. Everything we've spoken about today is taught in this book, and I really think it's going to impact a lot of lives. Not necessarily just people that are suffering with addiction, but people who feel a bit blocked, a bit stuck, a bit like they don't have what it takes. This is what's going to help you become unlimited. So you can get it on any major retailer. It's a benefit of penguin. They've pushed it everywhere. Uh, but easy one is Amazon. Just type it in. Just been launched right now as of this podcast going out. So grab a copy. You can get it www. unlimitedbook.co.uk, or of course you can just type it into Amazon and I'd love to hear what you think. Post it up on Instagram, tag me in at Lewis Raymond Taylor, and I'd love to give it a reshare for you and uh tell me what you thought.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:13

Lewis, thank you so much for for joining me on Believe in People. I'd like to end all of my podcasts with a series of uh quickfire questions um not related to to what we have spoken about. My first question is what is your favourite word? Buffoon.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

I'm joking. I'm joking unlimited. Least favourite word. Well quickly just to end it, you know what was and I mentioned this in the book, do you know what was funny about the word buffoon? Like I mentioned, I never knew what it meant. Yeah. And it was actually only later on where someone said what like you said, what does buffoon actually mean? And I thought I don't know actually. And it's crazy how like language can you know affect us uh in that way. So I actually like researched what it meant and it and and I actually forget exactly the exact definition now but it was something like absurd and amusing. And I thought in some way it almost sounds like a compliment doesn't it I thought I can live with that you know I'm alright with that I'm pretty absurd and I'd like to think it's quite amusing as well so thanks Dad.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:05

You know and it's just crazy how that can get fit to interpret but yeah it goes back to what you're saying it was it was how it was said to you wasn't it yeah but yeah the favourite word unlimited exponential growth.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:14

Nice least favourite word buff. Buffone tell me something that excites you I love business. I know it's really sad. It's not sad it's not sad but I know it's like not the the right answer but yeah business is the thing that really gets me going. Yeah it really gets me going I like the impact I like the growth from it yeah it's what excites me the most I also love to travel. So I'm actually what a lot of people don't know about because I'm an ultra minimalist I live out of I've up until recently I've lived out of a suitcase and a carry-on the last 10 years and uh sometimes I might live in an Airbnb but then I'll just pack up and you know leave everything and I've travelled the world and recently I decided I didn't even want that and I've gone down to hand luggage. Oh wow so I don't own a house I don't own a car I just love to move the look you know freedom is is really important to me the business is focused on the our tagline is coach your way to freedom because it's about how can you help people and build a freedom based business in the process. And I don't know if whether it was because I was locked up in prison or I was in this sort of mentality you've used to be having very little maybe yeah and who knows whether that Dr John D Martini talks about voids create values. It's like I think because I didn't have that I want that you know I seek that out but yeah I love to I love to travel so I'm probably gonna be going trip well I I've constantly traveled but usually for sort of six months at a time but I'm gonna start doing a bit of backpacking the stuff again for the first time in a while to really sort of explore.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:34

That'll be nice tell me something that doesn't excite you doesn't excite me football not at all what sound or noise do you love?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:48

The notification that I've made a sow on my phone.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:50

Nice the dub I mean hurting it I suppose yeah yeah what sound or noise do you hurt? People eating what's your dream job? Job I'm doing now of course there you are so yeah well to be fair what I often say is if you wasn't doing this yeah what job do you see yourself doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:10

I would say I thought it was an actor but yeah I an actor but I'd have to be a really high one because I did I did a couple of days on a on a on a shoot a little while ago fulfilling my life's dream and I realised it wasn't actually I was handed around a lot of the time and I was like well naturally I don't know I think I'll do enjoying doing more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:28

But yeah acting at a high core level for sure. Least favourite job you can imagine doing like when you sat looking out the bus at the normalcy of people. Oh god some form of corporate accountancy or something and then lastly should God exist what would you like to hear him say when you arrive at the Pearlie gates you didn't do it conventionally but you did it right son you're in. Ah there we go thank you so much sorry not to leave that on a powerful one but hopefully I've shared some powerful stuff through and have no thank you so much for joining me on Believe in people. Thank you. And if you've enjoyed this episode of the Believe in people podcast we'd love for you to share it with others who might find it meaningful. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And leaving a review will help us reach more people and continue challenging stigma around addiction and recovery. For additional resources, insights and updates explore the links in this episode description. And to learn more about our mission and hear more incredible stories you can visit us directly at believinpeoplepodcast.com.